good job Mr. Neversaynever

Unless its for the purpose of exposure, which sounds like it was.

Just wanted to say that I am thinking about both of you. I promise you, the withdrawal does get better.

Stay strong. I'm cheering for you.
Finding Freedom.

I do understand that. If there had been anyone else for him to go to that night I would be more concerned that he chose her. But he honestly does not have one male friend in this state that wouldn't have taken him to a bar to drown his sorrows, and even they are not close friends. Sadly, we have no couple friends that BH is close too. They are all my girl friends and their husbands, most of whom I don't like much either. ( the husbands).

The night he discovered I was cheating on him, BH left the house before I got home, leaving behind the incriminating evidence so I would know he knew. He went to the home of our mutual friend, a woman we have both been friends with since before we were married. She was at home in her small apartment with her mother and her son.
I was actually hoping that's where he went, because the only other place he might have gone was to a bar.

When he refused to answer my calls or reply to my texts, she let me know he was there and was "okay" ( in other words, not drinking). She also assured me that she had no intention of being our go-between and was not taking sides in this very personal matter. After a few hours, BH felt calm enough to come home and confront me. Since then both he and I have barely spoken to her, other than to say we are okay and are working on things. She knows this is our business, not hers and has completely respected that.

I am not saying that I will never feel strongly enough about the matter to remove her from our lives, but I am saying that there are more immediate concerns, and I hope it never has to come to that.

Thank you. That's what I'm counting on!

IF this "good friend" is to remain in your (yours and FBH's) combined lives, at least have the good sense to put protections in place.

How about these, for starters?

- FBH is NEVER to be alone with this friend, in any circumstance. Any interaction is to be joint with you.

- You and she must have a heart-to-heart, establishing this new paradigm.

Folks familiar with my story know of the importance in our recovery of just such a close (female) friend, who then became the "Hammer of Hades" to reshape FWW's head while I was banned from any contact. What made the whole thing "harmless" was that this woman was a staunch "friend to the marriage" of Bride and myself.

Had I been here at the same stage of recovery as you and you FBH are, and was told my unburdening myself to this person would have necessarily resulted in cutting her out of both of our lives......I (as the FBH) would not have been receptive.

NSN, you don't need friends outside of marriage. You seem to think the choice is between this woman and some guys. No it is not. *You* can and should be his best friend. When any person starts getting his needs met outside of marriage, the other needs are soon to follow. Your H has been getting his needs met by this woman for a very long time and she has done such a good job of it, that she is considered his "best friend." As long as she is hanging around, you won't become his best friend because there will be a contrast effect.

This woman is a distraction to your marriage. Just quietly back away and focus on your MARRIAGE. You don't need any single opposite sex friends outside of marriage. We have hundreds of affairs on this board that started just this way. There is no reason to take such a risk. If this "friend" is that important, then she is important enough to come between you and your H.

As you and your husband develop and grow your own romantic relationship, you will come to be VERY STINGY with your time. You won't want to squander very much on friends outside of marriage. Make some new couples friends that complement your marriage. And make your marriage so wonderful that you won't want to spend much time with them!

The lovebank can be very dangerous if not protected. People with the highest level of integrity can and have gotten caught falling in love with someone they shouldn't. Love begins as an addictive chemical that bonds two people. The withdraws you feel for OM are what your BH and this OSF can and maybe feeling even if they don't feel they are in love.

Falling in love with someone can happen before you even know it is happening because intimate conversation is a strong need for most people.

Let me put this another way, Never, this woman has a lovebank account with your husband. His bank is open to her. She has been making enough deposits that she is viewed as his "best friend." She is already over halfway to the romantic love threshhold. THE BANK ACCOUNT IS ALREADY THERE AND HALF FULL. Whenever your marriage is in trouble he goes to her, after all. So whenever you and he associate with her AGAIN, she can continue to make LB deposits because his bank is already open to her.

That is a how affairs start. Obviously, her account has not exceeded the romantic love threshold YET, but why give her more chances to fill it to that level? That just makes no sense.

I am not saying you should abruptly end your relationship with her, but I believe you should quietly back away. Learn to get your needs met in your marriage so neither of you are looking outside of your marriage. You shouldn't NEED friends when you are married. Friends are nice to have, but a couple does not NEED them.

In addition to the risk of your husband falling in love with this woman, there is a very real risk that she could be falling in love with him. Intimate conversation tends to be in the top 5 of ENs for women, and it sounds like your husband has been meeting that EN of hers for a very long time. I suspect she feels much closer to your husband than to you, and your friendship with her has been giving you a false sense of security regarding the risk she poses to your marriage.

When one need is met outside of marriage, the others are soon to follow. He is already half way there with this woman. Why take that risk?

I would like to reenforce this point here.


You see, even same-sex friends can pose a threat to your marriage through contrast effect. This is the reason that spouses should be each others' best friend and favorite recreational companion.


You see, even if a spouse didn't fall into an affair with an opposite-sex companion, we can very easily fall into a preference for our same-sex friends for recreational activity.

This is dangerous because it causes our time spent with our spouse to be less enjoyable in contrast, and negates the effect of UA time, and Love Bank deposits are wasted;




In a great marriage, even friendships that carry zero risk for infidelity are an inconvenience to a marriage. In a damaged marriage, they are disasterous.


While it is certainly nice to have support during recovery, social relationships are best placed on the far back burner until habits for a great marriage are implemented, and romantic love is restored... and when that is done, the weight of social relationships will be miniscule in comparison.

Also;


Friendships and social relationships are often emphasized by waywards, and lack of "free time" for friends or social relationships is targeted as a "flaw" in the marital relationship.

Considering the Love Bank model, this is not a marital problem, but an indication of a low Love Bank balance and the attractiveness of infidelity partners and/or social relationships/friendships in contrast to the spouse.

Melody: I agree 110%. Moreover, given recent events, this female friend may currently pose more of a threat to their marriage than POSOM. Neither NSN nor her husband are in denial about the risk POSOM poses to their marriage, but they both seem to be in denial about the risk this woman poses.

Taffy (my FWH) has a contact through work. Recently I found emails between them, which she initiated, discussing favourite motorcycle rides. This upset me and I called him on it. He insisted I shouldn't be worried about her.

His defense was:
He rarely ever sees her, maybe once every two months.
She is not in the least attractive to him.
"Everyone knows she is a lesbian."

I emailed Dr. Harley about this. His response was that her relative attractiveness to him was not the point. It is all down to the love bank. They already shared a work connection, and recreational interest. Add in conversation, and it would take nothing for her to BECOME attractive to him, regardless of her sexual orientation. In fact, he said we all even have to be careful of SAME SEX friendships, as he knows of cases where people have developed homosexual attractions when the EN's were met.

And one more thing Dr. Harley said about the issue. If I was unhappy about ANY person with whom Taffy had contact, he must stop the contact. Same goes for me.

So, Never, this friendship is dangerous territory for a lot of reasons.

BH and I have already discussed the necessary boundaries that will have to be put in place if our friend is to stay in OUR life. He is agreeable. I have already discussed with her my concerns about the future of our friendship and she too is agreeable- no contact that doesn't involve me.

When he went to her apartment the night he found out I was cheating she was incredulous. When he insisted that it was true and tried to show her the journal as proof she read the first sentence and refused to read any farther. She did not spend the evening discussing our marriage with him, she let him sit on her couch while she and her mother ate dinner in the other room.

Yes, he does have a drinking problem. He is a binge drinker and drinks to excess when he is stressed, depressed, or traumatized. He has done this twice since he began to suspect I was having an A. The second time he did it he came home hammered and screamed at me for hours. He accused me of cheating. I denied it.

He knows I cannot tolerate these episodes and despite the fact that it was my own behavior that triggered them, I made it clear that it must never happen again.

So yes, I was incredibly relieved that he did not go to a bar that night.

The fact that we have very few friends and no relatives nearby is only an issue when we have a traumatic event involving one of us. When he has come home drunk and screaming at me in the past, (this was a very rare occurrence until the past few months, when it has happened twice) the only way to get him to stop was to leave. I grabbed my keys, my dog, and my purse and left the house in whatever I was wearing. Often shoeless. I would drive to a 24 HR Walgreens and park in the parking lot. Maybe go in and buy some footwear and a blanket. After an hour or so I'd go back home, he'd be asleep (passed
out) and I would get in bed and go to sleep too. In the morning I'd be angry and he'd be apologetic, and it wouldn't happen again for a year or six months or whenever. The last two times? Guess where I went? Not to Walgreens. But I still came home as soon as I thought he'd be asleep.

Since D-day we have talked nearly non-stop about everything. I have reiterated how much it hurts me when he does this. Hurts me, scares me (not for my safety, for his, I don't trust him to get home safely) and angers me. He promises it will "never ever" happen again. I know better than to promise that I will "never ever" cheat again. All I can say is that I don't want it to happen again and am doing everything I know how to make sure it never does. I know I am weak. I know I have an addiction to that relationship and must be ever vigilant against giving in to it again.

If he does come home drunk and screaming at me again? It will be very,very,very hard not to want to turn to OM. Fortunately, I cannot contact him, and after everything BH has done with the exposure, I have a feeling OM is going to be looking for a new apartment. BH found his GF with only her first name. He dropped a letter in the ex-wife's mailbox, where she lives with their 3 daughters. OM cannot possibly feel safe at his current apartment. If he moves I will never find him. Maybe I should have BH send him a letter strongly suggesting it.

In the meantime, BH needs to address the drinking. He has done AA in the past, gone years without a drink, but just gets stupid sometimes. He has not had a drink since D-day. He says he hasn't even cried. I'm afraid at some point he's going to crack and I don't know what to do to prevent it.

If I am supposed to be his only friend, and he is still struggling not to hate me for cheating on him, who does he turn to when he can no longer stand to hold it in? I know the answer is supposed to be me, and is DEFINITELY NOT our female friend, but sometimes I think he is still so disgusted by what I did that I'm the last person he will want to be comforted by.

He should not be talking about the affair AT ALL. That makes it worse for him and for you. Talking about traumatic events does not make one feel better, it makes them feel WORSE because it brings the tragedy of the past into the present.

The second big problem is his drinking. He needs to agree to stop drinking completely. That has to be addressed before you can even begin recovery. Does he have a sponsor in AA?


You realize this does not solve the problem. Just because you "agree" on her friendship does not mean she is good for your marriage. My H and I can agree to smoke Marlboros, it does not mean smoking is good for us.

If I am supposed to be his only friend, and he is still struggling not to hate me for cheating on him, who does he turn to when he can no longer stand to hold it in?

Off the top of my head?

NeverGuessed, HoldHerHand, MelodyLane, MaritalBliss, zibbles (Love the "toad"!), etc, etc

Was that too indirect?

Okay - HAVE HIM ASK US!!!