I appreciate your feedback, HHH.

Research and studies can be skewed and interpreted in many ways to satisfy just about any perspective.

Just a couple links prove this: http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/04/living/women-premarital-cohabitation

and:

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2010/02/24/millennials-confident-connected-open-to-change/

We are living in a new age, and with that, new perspectives.

I am too old to subscribe to black and white perspectives. To say my future M is doomed is a stretch.

To say living together before M is wrong is a bit over-zealous, don't you think?

So when you ask "why compound risk with previous divorce and a blended family with cohabitation?" I have to answer "Why not?"

We are both in love. We both learned plenty from our previous M's. We're not teenagers running off to thwart our parents.

There are kids involved. They need to see how grown-ups can handle changes. They are directly involved with these changes, and have been very happy throughout.

My fiancee didn't even meet my kids until I was certain she was the one I wanted to be with. Dating and exposure to kids is not a good idea. I think I did a good job of waiting until the right time to introduce them.

Since this is the D section, I felt we could have a good discussion about how to handle things with my ex.

But now I've already spoken to the ex about the privacy boundaries so that topic is off the table now.

I'd love to have my fiancee chime in here, but I feel that some here may try to belittle her, or shame her (and me) for living in sin, when all we really want is good advice.

Do you realistically think that we can (or should) move away from each other just for the sake of adhering to Harley's ways? Isn't it possible to use what we know going forward in a positive way?

Has it ever entered your mind that if you would have used MB prior to your M with your XW that maybe you could have avoided the challenges you had that lead to D?

Could considering really using MB NOW with your fianc� impact the future for you two?

Unfortunately, the path that you are going down is not giving you the best possible chance for a happy M.


If your fianc� knows anything about MB..she should insist you have no contact with your XW. Likewise for you.

Really? That is what you think the problems you are facing now/today/tomorrow really are? Privacy Boundaries? Ok...


If you have spent any time on this forum you know that there are many things that you should be doing differently.

You are setting yourself up for failure, friend.

Maybe not, but are you using your HEAD here? People in 'love' do many things. Have A's, leave their children, families, careers, Ruin their lives, create regrets they can never take back!

What where the lessons you learned? Please explain.

Dr. Harley has seen this happen thousands of times. People 'in love' are somewhat insane to a degree and sometimes make very poor decisions. That is exactly what I see here. You are not using your head.

Caution!

I think you know exactly the risks you are running. Your life though. Risk on!

Why not? Because Dr. Harley has statistically seen an 80%+ divorce rate in blended families.

Thanks for the input, 20YH.

It's impossible to expect anyone to adhere to Harley's methods 100%.

If we did, we'd be followers, not leaders.

I lasted 13 years in a dysfunctional marriage. I even tried my best to save it, knowing full well I wasn't happy but I was tied to her through marriage. I believed marriage was a permanent thing. It is not.

The definition of marriage means different things to different people.

I am not here to argue Harley's methods.

I have chosen to use (what I feel are) the best of his methods.

I live in the real world, and quite honestly I don't see how ANYONE can be 100% in agreement with Harley, or anyone else.

I am not here to argue. I am not here to be told "hey dummy, you are living together before M? What are you, stupid?"

I'm not sure how much religion plays into all of this, but I am not religious. Never have been, never will be.

Marriage in 2013 is not what it was in 2012, 2011, 2010....you get the picture.

What about gay marriage? Do the same rules apply? Are there folks here who would banish a gay person to Hades for even thinking of marriage to the same sex? Probably.

That's all OK. I get it. No worries.

It is my life, and perhaps my time here has run it's course.

During my divorce there were loads of hard liners here bashing me left and right. In the end, my M ended and guess what? I'm happier now than I've ever been!

Maybe I'll come back in a year or so and update again. Until then, I will sign off again.

Thanks for all of your concern and advice. If I don't take your advice, please don't be offended. It's all good.

Thank you, Dr. Harley, for making me a better man. I'm not going to follow you completely. That's the Gemini in me. Fiercely independent.

We are not living in a 'new age' with new perspectives.
You are justifying your choice to cohabit and etc.

That being said, I am not religious either.

If you choose to cohabit before marriage......go for it and the best to you both.

I would never choose to do it, nor most people who understand the depth of thought the MB stand on it is based on

but

wishing you and the fiance the best of results!

Did you read the book Buyers Renters Freeloaders?

I appreciate all the help you offered me.
If we ever meet in real life I would very much like to buy you a beer or cup of coffee.

However I strongly encourage you to read the book.
Our marriages are broken and Dr Harley is a national expert.

Doomed? No.

Facing a statistically troubled road? Yes.


Leave "wrong" to the moralists. I don't think it's "wrong." I think it is an unnecessary risk.


Well, why not walk through Compton, California with a sign that says "I hate darkies!"

Because the outlook for such actions isn't very sunny.




So, you are gonna be cool with your daughters shacking up? Right?


Simple; it usually looks like Plan B. Because if you are going to marry this new woman, any women who were of romantic interest to you should be out of the picture. You should be learning parallel parenting.


Leave sin to the theists. It's about the HABITS cohabitation creates.


Anything is possible, but we aren't working with rainbows and unicorns.

Instead, work on what is probable.

What is probable, is that by cohabiting before marriage you are going to inundate your marriage with poor, marriage wrecking habits.

And, by the way; as we are on Dr. Harley's forums, which he provides to the open public without charging a DIME, it is only common courtesy that we advise people using HIS program, and HIS principals.


Don't like it? There are other forums out there that don't advise using Dr. Harley's observations.

Here.
Parallel Parenting

Thanks, HHH. I realize Dr. H hosts this site free of charge, and we all appreciate that.

I feel like a pachinko ball that has dropped all the way to the bottom (divorce) and I am now picking up the pieces of what's left (half time with the kids, financial strife, etc...) and opening my heart to the prospects of a successful relationship with my new honey.

I understand that the failures here (those who tried but ultimately got divorced) may not be so quick to move on, and it is a very personal decision about how to proceed.

For me, I subscribe to MANY of Dr. H's advisories. POJA is a biggie. Communication is a huge one. Knowing what's in the book HNHN is very helpful (now I can see things coming a bit better).... You get the idea.

OK with my daughter's shacking up? When they are 18 they can, I suppose. Hopefully they will remember these days and apply their own morals and values to their relationships. I'm not too worried about that.

I like the word probability. So many here seem to write from the perspective of "all or nothing" and that just doesn't seem right.

I understand what I'm getting myself in to. But to advise NOT living together after I have made it very clear we ARE living together is, well, poor advice.

I have gleaned some good advice from this thread, and that counts with me. My contact with the ex is way down now. We've excluded her from our home, totally. She no longer texts with loosely related stuff about the kids...etc... And my honey appreciates that tremendously.

I agree that all past relationships be forever deleted, with no contact ever again. Makes perfect sense.

It's balancing the relationship with the ex that's at issue sometimes. I come here for help with that. I have two women in my life that are only there because they gave birth to my daughters. One is a raving lunatic whom even my 19 year old daughter recognizes to be so. The other is my now ex-wife who is off on her own now, with her own new beau and all that goes with it.

And where exactly do our children learn morals and values from? Most parents (like myself) want to help our children learn from our mistakes so they follow a healthier path in life. I know I do.

You aren't too worried about that? You are ok with your children experiencing the pain of adultery? Not focused on helping them mature in a healthy way and learning from mommy and daddy's mistakes?


Are you saying you hope they chose a different path (by pixy dust or magic, not by example) than their father and mother have showed them? The apple typically doesn't fall far from the tree.


The reason Dr. Harley has laid out his program as an 'all or nothing' program is because through 40 years experience he has seen the negative ramifications of taking alternate paths.


Of course no one is going to put a gun to your head and force you to do anything. Totally your call. Use it, don't use it. Your choice. This is a MB site and that is what posters post about!

Your life, your call.

I sure wish my W and I would have incorporated MB into my marriage years ago though...There would have been a whole lot less pain and suffering.

Bad advice? Really? People can't change? I don't believe that for one minute. So what you are saying is that you are not in control of what you do today? You don't have the physical ability to CHOOSE to reorganize your life? ok....


The MB program is based on CHANGE. That is the basis entire program. You are more than capable to of changing direction today if you want to.


But, you don't. That is cool. No problem. Your life.


What do you expect, friend? Again, this is a MB website. If you want different advice to condone and say what you are doing is 'ok' you have the wrong site. There are many out there that will most likely pat you on the back and agree with you.


This is not one of them.

This is the DIVORCE/DIVORCING section of the forum, correct?

I have been a member here ever since my D-Day way back when.... And I did my best to save my marriage. Ultimately I could not save it.

Dr. Harley has great ideas and perspectives.... that's why I'm still here.

Is it not possible that all of his ideas and suggestions are NOT for everyone? Too many differences in people and relationships to make blanket suggestions to everyone.

Even my one on one sessions with his daughter (costly but worth it...) didn't seem like it was very personalized. His daughter spoke to me over the phone from her retreat in Fiji. I listened intently, took copious notes, and tried to do what she recommended. Problem was, that my WW was not on board. She didn't care. She was detached and in her "fog". I think she still is LOL.


I'm not looking for pats on the back, or for anyone to agree with me. If you look back through this thread, I was coming here for advice from a divorced perspective on how to deal with a specific problem.

Then the conversation turned on me because I decided to live my life the way I wanted to, which happens to include things that Dr. H may not condone.

A couple people here made good suggestions, but the original post was a simple enough question, IMHO.

If I am making mistakes (according to the Harley ways...) So be it. I think I have enough control over myself, and enough awareness in my new relationship to be able to see things coming. No guarantees, no assumptions. But with the tools I learned here, I am much better off than without them, no?

I like this site. Maybe there shouldn't be a "divorce" section? The impression I get is that the big D is a statement of failure. MB is a great resource, and I've learned to take away what I can, and leave some things on the table. No worries. It's my life, and I can only control myself.

The best lesson I learned through all of this.... "The only person you can change is..... yourself."

Sure! But the purpose of this board is to discuss and learn his advice. I don't know why you are surprised to get his advice here. It's easy to click ignore on posters that are doing this to you rather than faulting them for carrying out the board's mission. We are all volunteers here, after all. Or it's easy to post somewhere else if you just don't like the idea that we are primarily on the Marriage Builders forum to discuss and learn Marriage Builders.

I haven't seen that on any of the posts to you. Maybe I missed something. Or maybe you are reading something into it. Dr. Harley certainly doesn't say divorce is failure - there are plenty of marriages that he says shouldn't be saved. In those cases, divorce is success.

How's it going?

Hey Jedi, thanks for the question!

My life has become happier than I could have imagined. 13 years of marriage to a woman who's heart wasn't ever really into it may seem like a waste of time (for both of us) but I don't feel that way.

I learned a LOT over those 13 years. What to do. What NOT to do. What to look for, what to overlook...


As far as my situation, I am now engaged to the same girl I've been talking about previously. We have a date set for this June.

I know it sounds cliche', but I couldn't be happier. I couldn't feel more loved. I couldn't feel more optimistic about my future.

She has proven over the last two years that, if you started out as friends, you may have something more than just friendship in store.

Remember, I've known my fiancee' for over 17 years. It's really a heartwarming story looking back....except for the rocky divorce.

Anyhow, just chiming in to say I'm doing fine.

And once again I'll say that even though I may not agree with everyone here, or even Dr. H, I owe a lot of how I've changed (for the better) to this site and Dr. H's advice.

Have a great New Year everyone!

Glad to hear you are doing well

Got married June 28th, 2014.

There is life after divorce, and sometimes in life, it's best to move on and be thankful for what you still have. Family. Love. Life itself.

I'm a very happy man and any help I could provide from here will be given generously.

Thank you, MB, for helping me set the stage for a strong and lasting marriage!