K short intro, it's been 13 years marriage and 4 kids. Intimacy went to 3 times a week for the first month of marriage, to once every couple of months. She has to initiate or I get a cold let down. I live for intimacy, and have been completely devoted to her.

The last 7 years, she has had very emotional breakdowns if I bring up anything that is bothering me about her. She turns it around and makes me believe its my fault. Well I am such a sensitive guy, and cannot stand contention, so I apologize for something that is not my fault.

Three years ago I developed serious anxiety that stuck with me everyday. I went to counciling, Dr's, prescribed all kinds of medication. I believe my anxiety was triggered by a specific incident 3 years ago with my wife (ultimatum of some sort), and my Psychiatrist agree's and believes I have PTSD because of it.

He mentioned that she might have Borderline Personality Disorder.

Fast forward 6 months, she starts cutting, and threatening suicide. Has tried a few times to commit suicide. All part of BPD. I admitted her about 4 times to the hospital for a week stay each time. She is now on many types of medication.

Also the last few years she does nothing but sleep in until 10 - 12pm, and does not clean the house. She has no job. I work an early morning job and have a side business to make us money. She does show appreciation for that, and for what I do. She consumes every bit of my time when at home, and the only way I can get away from her is if I am cleaning the house. I've mentioned several times (as well as her family) that she needs to clean even a little because I feel our roles are extremely un-even. She just then gets suicidal. I also mention about sleeping in, and she doesn't like to hear that either.

We've been to couples therapy, she's been to therapy. She has stopped going to therapy about 3 months ago. I feel I have built an emotional wall to stop all the pain she has been causing me and so I wont stress out. My health has become bad because of all of the worrying.

I feel like I've been so good to her, and accepting.

I just don't see things improving unless something drastic is done.

So this is what I am thinking... I want to tell her that I want to temporarily separate because of this (I am just not happy), and when she is ready to try again, get up and not watch TV all day, then I will accept her back. I cannot think of anything else to do. Of coarse she will be with her father due to her suicidal thinking.

Oh, btw, the kids are a little older and are in school most of the day, and in the summer play with friends...

Am I distorted in my thinking? Is there a better plan? I feel like I have done everything. Even her family has told me to do this. I've tried dates together, time alone together, watching movies together, etc. Please help, I need suggestions!

Thanks!

Welcome to marriage builders!

Have you read the basic concepts? It seems your wife has checked out. Have you snooped to see if there is someone else?

If we were to ask your wife what her biggest hangup in the marriage is what do you think she would say?

How long have you been married?

Have either of you had an affair?

Would she be willing to fill out an emotional needs questionaire to pin point what makes her feel loved? Would you? How about the lovebusters questionaire? Maybe get her to fill one of those out to pin point what things you are doing to withdraw love from her?

Maybe buy a copy of the good doctors book "His needs Her needs" and "Lovebusters"

What meds is she on? Some antidepressants will lower libido.

How much time each week do you two get to spend meeting needs of affection, intimate conversation, sexual fulfillment, and recreational companionship? When you do spend time together... What does that look like? Are you two doing things you both agree too do without being distracted by kids etc?

There is so much info here. Get yourself aquainted with the basics and keep posting your questions. We will do our best to help along the way.

Last but not least you can always email the radioshow and talkto dr.harley himself and get his direct advice. You will get a free book for being on his radio show or you can opt out of that and he will address your email.

Keep us posted and read all you can here. The condition of your marriage didn't happen over night so recovery won't be overnight either.

MNG

Thanks for the info! I haven't read much material on this site, as I only found it yesterday. Neither of us has had an affair. Although I did see my wife kissing another man she met while in the hospital. She initiated the kiss. (Saw them kiss at my house). She didn't know I saw her do that, and she pretended it didn't happen for the next hour. I then confronted her about it and told her when I saw it happen it brought me to my knee's crying. She then left and tried to commit suicide. She landed in ICU for a few days. She claims nothing else has happened.

We get time together, but we don't talk much. Her meds really do lower her libido. She is on all kinds of them. When she is off the meds, she is a wreck 24/7.

She'd probably say the biggest hangup in the marriage would be the kids, as they take most of our time.

I ask her to do things with me when we have alone time (like taking a walk, taking a drive, going to the mall, etc.), but she doesn't have interest in doing that most of the time.

I can deal with most things, but when she cut's herself, or texts me on a weekly basis that she wants to kill herself, that is where I find me making the emotional wall taller.

Hello John,

Welcome to Marriage Builders. I am so sorry for the things that have brought you here. It definitely sounds stressful and depressing.

I am going to wonder off from MB policies a little bit here because your situation is one that makes it difficult to implement the principles of this site.

Sometimes with mental illness in the house things become a nightmare for everyone especially the poor individual that has to deal with it. Everyone deals with it in their own way.

My experience with depression was with my mother. Since I was very little she struggled with severe depression. Spending most days laying in bed, crying. It was a very difficult thing to endure. I learned at a very early age how to take care of myself, feeding myself, doing my own laundry, etc. Once I was old enough and had the resources to leave the home I did. My timing was good because mom had stopped taking her meds yet again.

Shortly thereafter my father left the home as well. There were just far too many incidents (AOs, suicide attempts, horrible, horrible DJs) that played havoc with everyone�s mental state of mind. They were divorced shortly thereafter.

I often tried to empathize with my father. For so many years I watched him deal with this situation. He got very few of his needs met and yet he tried so hard to maintain a positive, helpful environment for my mother.

I often struggle trying to decide what was best. And now later in life my father feels bad for leaving my mother. These feelings he had were triggered as a now born-again-Christian. Remorse.

The horror story became worse after my father left. With all but 1 child left in the home my mother was forced to go it alone. My father provided for her financially but other than that she was on her own. She soon showed signs of schizophrenia, talking to her TV, cutting off home services like garbage, etc. I would see her occasionally and she looked very unhealthy. I never got involved. I had had my fill as a child and I needed to be away from it. I started a new life. Sometimes I think I did the chicken-S%*$ thing by leaving. Took the easy way out. But I literally felt depressed being around her and it was taking its toll on me.

Times are a bit different now. Medications are better, there are better services for this type of thing. From the information you provided it seems that hasn�t been the answer for your W. I am quite certain if you leave things will get worse for her. She�s dependent on you for many things, way more than just financial.

Whether you stay or go it�s a very tough choice to make and one I�m not willing to provide my opinion on.

Your best option is get someone who is really qualified to help. As MrNiceGuy mentioned you could email the radio show and get some free advice and options for you.

I applaud you for stick it out as long as you have. It appears by your words you really need to find some new options. Hopefully the good Dr can give you some hope.

Thanks MrAlias! It sounds like you had it really hard with your mother having depression. Its true that meds and treatment are better now, but she is not willing to go back to her therapy sessions.

I am still very much in love with the woman I first married. She was active, made dinners, etc., and then we'd have time to be together.

Now she guilt's me into working on the house, and paying for takeout for most meals.

Since we've tried everything that the couples therapy has suggested, I don't know what to do from here other than reading the resources on this site. I deserve a happy life, the only way I know how is to find another partner that can bring out the happiness in me. At the same time though, I would feel extremely sorrowful for my wife if I left. Also there are kids in the equation, so that is hard as well.

So basically I feel like I am doing work all day long, and she isn't doing much. She is an excellent mother though.

One of the things I see as quite problematic is how she reacts to your radical honesty. I am going to assume you communicate in a respectful way. If you're not you need to work on that.

If you can't be honest about your feelings without her threatening suicide you're going to need to get some help. I have no idea how efficient your couples counseling was. Most counseling is very ineffective. Many are not action based and spend the time discussing the past ... where all kinds of painful things are talked about.

MB is geared towards actions ... future actions. Cleaning up your side of the street and being a great marital partner. The key is each party doing what they can to provide care and protection of the M and their partner.

I would definitely encourage you to educate yourself, immerse yourself, in everything offered on this site. It has been a very positive experience for my W and I. I wish that for everyone.

What, if anything, do you do to provide yourself some self-care? Do you exercise? Have a hobby? Find activities with the kids and her that help you take your mind off the situation if that�s possible.

I really watch my words. If I said the nicest thing, but my tone was off just a little, she would take it the wrong way. I have tried my hardest to be nice to everyone.

Self-care is hard to do, since she demands my time the second I get home from work. She also frequently tries to get me to take days off, or leave early. I sense that is some of the abandonment issues she had as a kid which caused her BPD. So no, I don't do self-care, but would like to. I have a gym membership pass I haven't used in over a year.

Welcome back!

Your wife kissed another man.. That's a red flag. At the very least she seems to have poor boundries. What kind of kiss was it? Women don't just kiss guys for no reason.. If he came to your home to kiss her what makes you think he still not coming around?

You said after you confronted her she then left and tried to commit suicide? Was this the first time? If not what moment do you think was the turning point when she started to change her behaviour into suicidal tendencies?

Are you sure she is just sleeping all day?

Do you have a home pc? If so. Get a keylogger on it like desktopshark or spectropro.

Does she have her own mobile phone? If so.. Can you get a hold of it and check the messages? Maybe check the records for numbers being texted during the day when you are not home.

Does she have her own car?

How old are your kids, how many, and how long have you two been together?

Sorry for all the questions. The details help us piece together the puzzle so we can better understand you and your situation.

Marriage builders can likely help you. Start doing plan A here (read up on plan A) and do some sluething. If you find info that confirms any sort of an affair (physical or emotional) bring it here and do not confront her yet.

She could likely be having suicidal thoughts from guilt.. Or just general anxiety getting the best of her. When anxiety is overwhelming it can cause temporary insanity. If its on going you can dip in and out of insanity many times a day.

Keep reading and posting. This place is a great sounding board and resource for support.

MNG

Oh btw.. Don't bother to go to marital counselling. It has an 84% failure rate and highest rate of divorce of any occupancy. If anything use the coaching center here. Its much more productive.

Well she doesn't sleep all day, she wakes up anywhere in between 10am and 12pm. Then she lyes down in bed watching tv. She doesn't use a computer, only her cell phone. I've tracked her using phone tracking software (which saved her life once) many times to see where she is at, and she isn't going anywhere strange I don't think. Her texts when I look at her phone are from friends, but she could always keep it deleted.

Our kids range from 1 to 12. She has her own car. We've been together for almost 14 years, married for 13. The night of the kiss was the first actual suicide attempt, but not the first threat. I don't think it was a turning point, as she has come quite close before this. She was hospitalized for her suicidal thoughts, and the psych ward of the hospital is where she met the guy whom she kissed. I haven't brought it up since then, and she still struggles with suicidal thoughts.

Oh, I get up at 5:45, so I get at least 4 hours less sleep than she does. I once asked her if she'd get with me to kiss me goodbye and she said no way. I can't blame her, it is an early morning. However I told her that I need to be in bed at a certain time, and she makes me guilty for going to bed early. So I go to bed the same time she does and I get about 4 to 5 hours of sleep a night because of that.

First off. Congratz on how long you been married for. Too much to just throw away here.


Have you checked her phone records for any suspicious numbers? Are any of her "friends" of the opposite sex? If so, that could be creating a contrast effect that will make it difficult for her to allow you to meet her needs

You could put a voice activated recorder under the seat or in the dash to catch her convos in the car.


Good you don't bring it up. For now. Why do you think she struggles with suicidal thoughts? Has she given you any reasons as to why she might be suicidal? People generally are not suicidal unless there is something going on and they feel they have lost control of their lives or some kind of horrible trauma that won't get out of her head.

MNG

I haven't thoroughly checked her phone yet. That is a good idea. She only has friends that are girls that I know of.

I think she struggles with her thoughts and cutting because of her BPD. It has a VERY high suicide rate. I've known multiple people that have committed suicide that has been diagnosed with it.

Basically one parent abandoned her family when she was really young forcing the other to be away from home too much. So basically her older brother raised her.

Excellent.. However, tone is very important. If your tone has hints of sarcasm or frusteration she will pick up on it. You probably notice how her tone effects you also. Much more so than her words. Make absolutely sure your not using any disresepectful judgements and never have an angry outburst towards her. It will not help at all. Even if she flys off the handle at you just try and validate her feelings even if you don't think she should be feeling that way. Both of your feelings are real in the moment. You can't talk someone out of their feelings you can only sympathize or be empathetic towards them. You may feel frusterated towards your wife but if its brewing anger tell your wife that the conversation is no longer safe and that you guys will continue the discussion when emotions are not clouding your thinking (usually 15mins or so it takes for the adrenalin to leave your system from a heated talk).


That's great she wants to be with you. If she's demanding your time the second you walk in the door she's looking for some intimate conversation since she's been at home all day taking care of your youngest kid/s that are not in school all day. That is taxing on a mom. Try and take a few mins to listen about her day in an enthusiastic way. Really listen and respond like you actually hear her. If she's getting frusterated or her frusterated day is rubbing off on you don't let it get to you. Ask her how she's feeling and if she's blaming you for something don't get defensive. Just validate her feelings (may not be justified to you but that's ok she will appreciate your attepmt to understand her and likey calm down) and be sympathetic to her perspective.

She likely wants to have you take days off and such because she feels disconnected from you and her only source of emotional needs being met is you. When was the last time just you amd her went on a weekend get away to reconnect as a couple? Without kids? Do you guys get any breaks or any kind of support from your family to just be you two?

MNG

Just out of curiosity.. Has she been cliniclay diagnosed with BPD? (Bipolar disorder?) (Borderline personality disorder?)

If not ... Are you awar that's its a disrespectful judgement to judge her that she is? Are you aware that if your mind set is thinking of that all the time it will withdraw love units from her to mention it and even love units from your own love to her if you constantly think like that? It will effect your tone.

You should compliment her often. We as husbands have to power to lift her up or bring her down. Wives look to their husbands for direction. Your emotional state will likely control the household. If your easily brought down by her emotional state.. What energy does she have to lift herself out of her negative mind set if her husband is down in the dumps with her.

So yeah.. Compliment her often. Tell her that her ears are beautiful.. That she's an amazing cook. Looking lovingly into her eyes and tell her she's your best friend. Ask her about her dreamsMM futureMM etc. She likely has a high need for admiration. So admire all the things you find attractive about her and tell her every day. Lift her up. Maybe not on a pedastil.. Heck if you have to put her there for a bit to get her out of her slump (plan A) do it! She may not respond in ways you appreciate right away.. But eventually her depression may life as you begin to give her value and cherish her. If she does have abandonment issues she will desperately need that affirmation.

Vets.. If I am going off track here plz correct me.

MNG

You�ve used the words she demands an awful lot in your posts. If you read up on this site�s principles pay close attention to the Policy of Joint Agreement.

I think you are contributing to the demise of your marriage(M) by sacrificing on many occasions. It will be important for you to learn how to respectfully negotiate with your wife (W) so that you are getting things out of the M you need. There is nothing wrong with trying to spend every available moment with your W. She should be your favorite recreational companion. But if that time is filled with you fulfilling her demands you are not doing your M a favor.

The POJA works because it requires both of you to be enthusiastic about the course of action. You work together to find a WIN/WIN in every situation.

Hopefully by implementing this policy and you both seeing the benefit in it you will see it become easier to be more open and honest with her. Right now it appears you are walking on eggshells. Time to become a team where it is understood you both have each other�s best interest at heart. That should curb those low periods where she feels threatened/scared/suicidal.

Thanks for the info. She has been professionally diagnosed twice, and confirmed BPD. My Psychiatrist even told me she had it (I didn't take his word for it until she was seen by a Psychiatrist herself). I don't ever mention the disorder to her so that it doesn't come into her mind. I have a great deal of respect for her. All the symptoms are there as well. I've watched so many videos, and read many articles about the condition (without telling her), that it fits her perfectly. She cuts, mood changes instantly, turns the blame around on me, clings to people, fear of abandonment, had past abandonment.. Which is all part of BPD. I've been on many BPD forums, and most of the marriages do not work from what I have seen. Does anyone know about this condition? They basically tear down their spouse emotionally. I have learned to cope a little with it, and since she's learned she's had it, she's been better about turning the blame on me. She is careful around this area. But seeing her cut and bleed in front of our kids, have manic episodes near myself and kids, shoving my gun up her mouth and pulling the trigger (had no bullets, gun was hidden from her but she found it, and is now out of the house), is very, very hard to deal with.

I (along with her family) are having a very hard time with her not doing anything around the house. She has no job, kids are in school most of the time except the 1 year old. She takes long naps during the day though. All I am wanting from here is a little effort. I have anxiety all of the time, social anxiety, and ptsd. Two of which have developed after we got married.

You are right though, I do need to compliment her a lot more than I am. She deserves that! I think by doing that, it will help her with her self esteem. I have tried complimenting her a lot in the past, but didn't seem to help much. But I do need to do that more. I will also watch my tone.

But do you think this will help both of us in our relationship? Or just help her out? I see her as a roommate right now. The second time she was admitted into the hospital, I've never been so close to her. We kissed, hugged, etc., things were great. And then she gets admitted into the hospital again. I think I built an emotional wall because of the third one. I just don't want to hurt anymore.

I don't think I was clear when I say she demands my time. She REALLY demands my time. I am greatful she wants me around, but I am feeling smothered. I can't get things done, I have to be with her on all occasions when we are together. I can't go to the gym, the store, anything without her having a say in it. There has to be a happy medium, right?

Oh, and she isolates me from family. Thats a big one..

One time I was driving through my sisters town, which is in another state, and she didn't want to stop (right off the freeway exit). I put my foot down and we stopped to visit. She didn't get out of the car, or talk to me the rest of the way home. I was only there less than 10 minutes.

***EDIT***

If you read through the basic concepts here. You will see that by going against your wifes feelings and stopping to visit your sister was likely a love buster to your wife. By going anyways without her enthusiasric agreement your basicly telling her you don't care how she feels. To the woman you married, by not considering her feelings in the matter it conveys you don't put her first.

Now I understand that she should care how you feel also but your resentment (dr harley calls that resentment type 1 I think)of not going (policy of joint agreement is to not do anything without your spouses enthusiastic agreement) would not last as long once you come up with a win win scenerio to have that visit in the near future. But by going anyways you bring resentment type 2 into the scenerio where your wife will always remember you didn't care how she feels and every time she remembers it she looses some of her love bank balance for you. Same goes if she does something you don't agree with and she does it anyways. You will remember forever and dislike her each time you remember it. Even if your having a good day but something triggers that negative moment. Bam.. Love goes down and the other is blind sided or confused why their spouse is distant for whatever reason. Even though the day was going excellent up to that point. Brainstorm like crazy to come up with win win solutions. Don't sacrifice. The POJA should be followed at all times for both of you. When one doesn't agree on something the default is do nothing until you can come to an agreement where neither is sacrificing. Sacrificing breeds resentment.

Read all the basic concepts here it will open your eyes. Introduce some things from here that will entice your wife to want to move forward with MB with you. Build an INTERdependant lifestyle with her. All these things also apply to her also but it will be up to you to open the doors for her along the way and lead with example.

MNG

That is an insane way to live.
I suggest you file for full custody. The last thing you need is for her to drive a van full
Of kids into a lake because of her mental disorders