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my contention is; 6 months down the road no job and still in a bad marriage,and now she's dependent on him. That's a big step to give your independence up .

**EDIT**

i hope i didn't ruffle too many feathers
I'll leave you alone now.
peace.

Last edited by Mizar; 07/25/13 05:15 PM. Reason: TOS: please familiarize yourself with Marriage Builders concepts (Dr. Harley's advice and principles)
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Well, I'm not sure what brought you here, but maybe it could have been better had UA time been implemented. Who knows. We don't all make 6 figures (I know my husband sure does not), you don't need 6 figures to put rice and cheap ground beef at the table for children who share a bed.

You mentioned family vacations and renovations in your other thread - those are luxuries which we forgo at this time in order to maximize UA and family time together. Again, it's all about priorities.

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STOP arguing over the issue of no separation overnight on this thread. Please advise this poster using MB principles, or refrain from posting.


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Originally Posted by yukoncharlie51
my contention is; 6 months down the road no job and still in a bad marriage,and now she's dependent on him. That's a big step to give your independence up .

**EDIT**

i hope i didn't ruffle too many feathers
I'll leave you alone now.
peace.
Yukoncharlie51,

If you listen to Dr. Harley on the radio he welcomes people who think they may have "exceptions" to his concepts. He asks them to contact him.

Would you email him and discuss it with him? Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com.

Joyce Harley will respond to you.


FWW/BW (me)
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by yukoncharlie51
i hope i didn't ruffle too many feathers
I'll leave you alone now.
peace.

Not at all. It's simply a public forum where we try to help others. Sometimes arguing the points allows us to drive the points home to the original poster.

I notice you comment on other threads but haven't revealed anything about yourself. I'd really like to see you start your own thread and tell us your experiences.

We'll do our best to help you see how Dr Harley's principles can make a difference for you, if you need one, as they have made a world of difference for many of us.


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Originally Posted by MrAlias
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However, now I know my emotional needs, my husband only fulfills them when he either remembers or feels like it.

Speaking of counterintuitive � these things � these filling of ENs aren�t engrained in all of us and many times we as partners need our spouse to help us out along the way. We�re going to spit and sputter and forget or get lazy or what have you.

It will help you a lot if you can continue to help him, guide him at being a master at meeting the needs you desire.

That isn�t engrained in many of us either. I know myself I have a very hard time asking for things for myself. I don�t always feel entitled, or I don�t feel like I want to nag (I have to remember that complaints are good/important in a good M).

But boy I�m quick to develop resentment when I�m not getting what I want � even though I�m not helping her out, clueing her in. I have certainly told myself to get off the pot, help guide her (constantly if necessary) in how I want my needs met or shut down my thought process of building resentment. I can�t have it both ways. Either I do my part or I accept that I know she won�t be meeting my needs.

Ana, does any of that resonate with you?

Hi Mr Alias,

Yes, some of it does resonate with me. I seldom even talk much about myself let alone ask for anything I really need and then when I do I already feel a resentment towards him because he didn't meet my needs.

Having said that, even when I do make it crystal clear what I need I am told I want a soap opera life, or the life of a rhesus monkey. This is the furthest thing from the truth, but because I love a little "we time" when we have RC time, then it makes me the problem for wanting such a thing. My husband appears to think that love is trinkets and pretty things, the physical things in life, and yet I long for closeness. I feel very lonely, more lonely than if I were physically alone. I like having physical alone time immensely, but I don't like feeling invisible to my husband when we are both supposed to be enjoying RC time together. He gets very angry at me for wanting such a thing.

He said to me this weekend that I never used to be like this. This also wasn't true. It is him that was never so cold and uncaring, therefore he never heard a complaint because he fulfilled the need. Once he turned abusive it is as if there is still a massive sense of entitlement with him that negates him even asking himself if he's the one that changed. He did. Massively. I always loved our together evenings so much, and so did he. But when he says I want a rhesus monkey life I feel humiliated and lied about, but I also feel he wants a single mans life without me in it.

I can't change jobs at the moment as no person can sleep at night whilst he does as his snoring can be heard outside the house, so I went on nights to fix that part of our lives; I had no real choice. He's going on a CPAP machine soon, so that should fix that, but even as is, it's our evenings that are currently compatible, but without any closeness from him.

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Have you been very specific about what you want. You might have to draw a road map by providing examples. Examples might be
-I would like more eye contact when you talk to me
-I would like you to hold my hand in public
-I would like you to put your arm around me when we're on the couch
-I would like you to share with me how your day went

My wife has a high need for DS. When I tried to meet this need, I wasn't doing the things she wanted most. So she gave me a list of what was important to her and I concentrated on these things.


Husband (me) 39
Wife 36
Daughter 21
Daughter 19
Son 14
Daughter 10
Son 8 (autistic)

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He said to me this weekend that I never used to be like this. This also wasn't true.


It doesn't matter what you were like back then. Maybe you've changed, maybe he's changed, whatever. What matters is that you've identified and communicated to him what you need from him to feel in love with him. It's his job to fill your needs. If he doesn't do that than he is responsible for the demise of your M.

His comments comparing you to other objects like this monkey ... that's disrespectful and you need to ask him to stop that. You are a human being who has feelings, who has needs and who is communicating those needs so the one person who swore to fill them can.

Quote
He wakes me up with a cup of tea and chatters on to me endlessly about what he wants.

So he gets to talk about what he wants but the minute you do he disrespectfully dismisses your request? Or am I taking this out of context?

Last edited by MrAlias; 07/29/13 11:59 AM.

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Mr. A i had posted on dating thread a few month back about sex after divorce i kind of gave a description of my tribulation ( cheating @ deceit of WW/Wife ) ; and about the fact i had no intention of marriage in sight then ( and still like having sex during dating) @ and i had a disagreement with that too. - being 51 i think I'm old enough to know to better. - I might be in 50's but i'm not dead yet either. I won't take any more space of this thread's valuable time
thank you

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Originally Posted by AnaR
My husband appears to think that love is trinkets and pretty things, the physical things in life, and yet I long for closeness. I feel very lonely, more lonely than if I were physically alone. I like having physical alone time immensely, but I don't like feeling invisible to my husband when we are both supposed to be enjoying RC time together. He gets very angry at me for wanting such a thing.

You have ENs of Conversation, Admiration, Openness/Honesty and some sort of Physical Touch. That is how you feel love. He likes to be able to provide Financial Support so that he can give you gifts. The problem is that he does not understand that you have different ENs than him and by him fulfilling his needs towards you, you don't feel loved. He is making deposits into the wrong account or with foreign money.

And good for the CPAP...him getting good sleep will hopefully help his disposition. He may think he is sleeping for 8 hours, but if you have sleep apnea you are not getting good sleep.

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And good for the CPAP...him getting good sleep will hopefully help his disposition. He may think he is sleeping for 8 hours, but if you have sleep apnea you are not getting good sleep.


If you are a snorer and you believe you are getting 7 or more hours of sleep yet still feel a need to nap everyday there's a good chance you have apnea.

I do and when I don't use my CPAP I know I wake up during the night more times than usual and when I'm sitting at my desk at work middle of the afternoon I have a hard time keeping my eyes open.

Getting a good night sleep does a lot for one's disposition.

Last edited by MrAlias; 08/02/13 07:13 AM.

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Originally Posted by MrAlias
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And good for the CPAP...him getting good sleep will hopefully help his disposition. He may think he is sleeping for 8 hours, but if you have sleep apnea you are not getting good sleep.


If now you are a snorer and you believe you are getting 7 or more hours of sleep yet still feel a need to nap everyday there's a good chance you have apnea.

I do and when I don't use my CPAP I know I wake up during the night more times than usual and when I'm sitting at my desk at work middle of the afternoon I have a hard time keeping my eyes open.

Getting a good night sleep does a lot for one's disposition.

The CPAP is wonderful for marriages. I think it's sexy as hell, because it means I get to sleep, too. LOL


Me: 30
Him: 39
Together 5 years
Married the very best man in the world 04/06/2013 after being common law for too long. I'm a lucky woman.
7 Cats - Viscount Ashley of Leftfield, Pawkie Petunia, The Timinator, Leo the Lionheart, Fruit Snack, Cloud, and Barret
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Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
Have you been very specific about what you want. You might have to draw a road map by providing examples. Examples might be
-I would like more eye contact when you talk to me
-I would like you to hold my hand in public
-I would like you to put your arm around me when we're on the couch
-I would like you to share with me how your day went

My wife has a high need for DS. When I tried to meet this need, I wasn't doing the things she wanted most. So she gave me a list of what was important to her and I concentrated on these things.

Yes, I have done this, and for a while it works, but not for long.

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Originally Posted by MrAlias
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He said to me this weekend that I never used to be like this. This also wasn't true.


[quote]It doesn't matter what you were like back then. Maybe you've changed, maybe he's changed, whatever. What matters is that you've identified and communicated to him what you need from him to feel in love with him. It's his job to fill your needs. If he doesn't do that than he is responsible for the demise of your M.

I know, Mr Alias. I imagine we have both changed as a matter of just growing as life intended. I doubt that anyone stays exactly the same.

Quote
His comments comparing you to other objects like this monkey ... that's disrespectful and you need to ask him to stop that. You are a human being who has feelings, who has needs and who is communicating those needs so the one person who swore to fill them can.

He doesn't care about disrespect. Sometimes I could swear he has a book of all these sayings, but even when I ask him to see I am only a human being, it makes no difference.

Quote
He wakes me up with a cup of tea and chatters on to me endlessly about what he wants.

Quote
So he gets to talk about what he wants but the minute you do he disrespectfully dismisses your request? Or am I taking this out of context?

No, not dismisses my request. It's hard to explain. I feel very invisible so I don't talk much anyway, in fact I have become more withdrawn lately, even my normal humor is vanishing.
I'm very half awake anyway, so it's quite easy not to want to talk much, and usually I don't want to. But say if I was more awake for some reason, every conversation I start or enter, he butts in on. If I come out with something either of interest, or of a personal nature - perhaps about a friend, he makes it about him, or his story. I can seldom ever "just talk". But no, he is not DJ'ing anything I say.



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Originally Posted by wannabophim
[quote=AnaR] My husband appears to think that love is trinkets and pretty things, the physical things in life, and yet I long for closeness. I feel very lonely, more lonely than if I were physically alone. I like having physical alone time immensely, but I don't like feeling invisible to my husband when we are both supposed to be enjoying RC time together. He gets very angry at me for wanting such a thing.

Quote
You have ENs of Conversation, Admiration, Openness/Honesty and some sort of Physical Touch. That is how you feel love. He likes to be able to provide Financial Support so that he can give you gifts. The problem is that he does not understand that you have different ENs than him and by him fulfilling his needs towards you, you don't feel loved. He is making deposits into the wrong account or with foreign money.

I know - but the physical doesn't mean much to me, even far less than it ever has. I feel emotionally starved. I have explained kindly to him that I am more emotive than physical in needs, but if makes no difference. I have to accept what is on offer or go without.

Quote
And good for the CPAP...him getting good sleep will hopefully help his disposition. He may think he is sleeping for 8 hours, but if you have sleep apnea you are not getting good sleep.

He's having problems with the machine at the moment and apart from one serious attempt to use it, he hasn't tried much since as he's left feeling too exhausted - it's possible from some research I have done that the machine isn't set right, so when he sees his Dr next Monday we will know more.


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Originally Posted by MrAlias
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And good for the CPAP...him getting good sleep will hopefully help his disposition. He may think he is sleeping for 8 hours, but if you have sleep apnea you are not getting good sleep.


If you are a snorer and you believe you are getting 7 or more hours of sleep yet still feel a need to nap everyday there's a good chance you have apnea.

I do and when I don't use my CPAP I know I wake up during the night more times than usual and when I'm sitting at my desk at work middle of the afternoon I have a hard time keeping my eyes open.

Getting a good night sleep does a lot for one's disposition.

Very true, and I'm grateful I don't suffer with that problem and am so sorry for anyone who does. I have enough to deal with with a spinal problem that has literally taken over my life. I used to be so active - running everywhere, keeping up with everything, working,cleaning, and now - I work, but I'm not much use at all I used to do in the super woman arena. In part I am grieving my own body and the loss of such independence to do all I once did. I think I also fear massively that my husband holds my disability against me, albeit subconsciously.

Anyway, I hope his CPAP works out for him in the long run. smile

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Earlier today something else happened. We have bought a new "smart tv" and my husband cannot get the sound to come out through the speakers.

Anyway, I was brainstorming with him about how we could solve it and asking questions as I've always been the one to work out electronics. He kept saying it had been a long day - he said this before and I acknowledged it more than once, but on the last time I said "I know, but that won't help us solve this problem and I went on to ask him about connections etc"

He accused me of "yelling and screaming" at him. This was totally and utterly false. I did not do this, or anything like it. He said later I did raise my voice, which is possible as birds are screeching, the heating was blowing down from the ceiling and making one din - and to top it off I am more than half deaf - which means I either mumble or talk loudly, but no - according to him I "yelled and screamed."

I stated politely several times that I did not do this - it made no difference - he maintained I did.

I quietly said I was going into my office as I was not going to deal with him while he was making false accusations against me.

After a couple of hours I went and showered and got into bed with some water as I get very nervous when he gets like that and my stomach started acting up. There was no apology for hours and hours and I missed my dinner through feeling sick - whilst he ate his dinner and chocolates. He said it was my choice not to eat my dinner. There isn't much of a choice when you feel extremely sick - but he doesn't care about that. He says I cause my own stomach problems and it's nothing to do with him.

I was later told by him that he was going to act normal with or without me.

He did finally end up saying he had exaggerated - and I said 'but that's lying', and he doesn't deny or acknowledge that.

What I don't know how to handle is when a false accusation is levelled against me, how do I deal with it, and how do I deal with my body feeling like it's speeding at 100 miles an hour from internal anxiety?

When we discuss emotional abuse he is clearly of the mind that physical abuse is far worse. Considering that more suicides come out of emotional abuse I beg to differ - from experience and knowing that at this point in time I wish I wasn't on this earth.

I do not believe this man loves me. I can't feel it at all and I haven't for a very very long time, and I'd take a polygraph on this.

It's our 25th wedding anniversary soon - and I so wish it wasn't - not just yet.

He says he is a good husband. Maybe it IS all my fault - I just don't know anymore. I really don't.


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Have you emailed the Harleys?

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Ana I think the problems in your marriage are more than a DIY project. Wht do you think? What kind of support do you think would set your marriage up for success? Have you read the When to Call It Quits newsletters in the newsletters part of the forum? I think they will help you let these temporary circumstances sink back into perspective.

When your H acts this way, it's out of being a Renter, looking at short term getting his way, instead of being a Buyer, making choices that make your life happy and joyous together long term. But it's okay, look at those articles. You have options, you are not alone.


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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Originally Posted by AnaR
Earlier today something else happened. We have bought a new "smart tv" and my husband cannot get the sound to come out through the speakers.

Anyway, I was brainstorming with him about how we could solve it and asking questions as I've always been the one to work out electronics. He kept saying it had been a long day - he said this before and I acknowledged it more than once, but on the last time I said "I know, but that won't help us solve this problem and I went on to ask him about connections etc"

He accused me of "yelling and screaming" at him. This was totally and utterly false. I did not do this, or anything like it. He said later I did raise my voice, which is possible as birds are screeching, the heating was blowing down from the ceiling and making one din - and to top it off I am more than half deaf - which means I either mumble or talk loudly, but no - according to him I "yelled and screamed."

I stated politely several times that I did not do this - it made no difference - he maintained I did.

I quietly said I was going into my office as I was not going to deal with him while he was making false accusations against me.

After a couple of hours I went and showered and got into bed with some water as I get very nervous when he gets like that and my stomach started acting up. There was no apology for hours and hours and I missed my dinner through feeling sick - whilst he ate his dinner and chocolates. He said it was my choice not to eat my dinner. There isn't much of a choice when you feel extremely sick - but he doesn't care about that. He says I cause my own stomach problems and it's nothing to do with him.

I was later told by him that he was going to act normal with or without me.

He did finally end up saying he had exaggerated - and I said 'but that's lying', and he doesn't deny or acknowledge that.

What I don't know how to handle is when a false accusation is levelled against me, how do I deal with it, and how do I deal with my body feeling like it's speeding at 100 miles an hour from internal anxiety?

When we discuss emotional abuse he is clearly of the mind that physical abuse is far worse. Considering that more suicides come out of emotional abuse I beg to differ - from experience and knowing that at this point in time I wish I wasn't on this earth.

I do not believe this man loves me. I can't feel it at all and I haven't for a very very long time, and I'd take a polygraph on this.

It's our 25th wedding anniversary soon - and I so wish it wasn't - not just yet.

He says he is a good husband. Maybe it IS all my fault - I just don't know anymore. I really don't.

Ana,
I've just started to get a handle on this one myself...43 years and 1 broken marriage later.

What I've found in my MB marriage is that those "accusations" aren't so much accusations as accurate descriptions of the other person's perceptions. I've had to really struggle with this because although I don't believe i have a big need for Admiration, all my life I've not taken criticism very well. So when my wife says things that sound like criticism, instead of hearing "complaint" and an opportunity to eliminate a LB, or increase $LB deposits; I have tended to get defensive.

Obviously a way to overcome this has been to understand and adhere to MB principles. But to suppliment that I have found some guidance in scripture. Someone can site chapter and verse for me but the Psalm (I believe) describes Love with "Love is kind......Love is NOT DEFENSIVE....."

So, I've been trying really hard not to get defensive when I hear things like that..."you're driving too fast, you forgot to turn off the basement light..." this type of thing.

Also, trying to see things from the other person's perspective goes a long way. If someone is really tired, tense, etc, then a slight voice raise may sound like "yelling and screaming."

These were just some thoughts I had as I read your latest post here.

Opt


Me: 43 y.o. BFWH, D-day 11/11/09 (NC since 9/01)
Divorce from WW final 9/16/10.
Current Status: MB-based Marriage to Nature Girl 12/8/12 (first date on 12/11/10)
Mine: S(16), D(11)
NatureGirls: S(23), D(21)
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