I had an executive manager years ago who had a katana hanging on his office wall. Whenever a group would get tangled up in disparate threads of contention during a strategic discussion, he'd grab it, unsheathe it, and threaten to help us separate the variables. (We ASSUMED he was joking!)

So I'm grabbing the virtual katana....

You are tripping over the dual issues of "faith" and "fidelity", using perceived inconsistencies in either to attack the pillars of each.

Since this is a marital support site, lets stay there, shall we? Here's something that might make your position more stark and, quite frankly, heinous:

Regardless of the religion, or even in the absence of religion, there is always one Supreme Being that is affected, gratified, or repulsed by your (in)fidelity, and that is......YOU.

You must live with your own choices about keeping unblemished (I almost said "sacred") your own vows and promises. If they are worthless to you, you could be an agnostic, an atheist, or the Grand Caliph of Byzantium, and you will act in ways that are inconsistent with them, should temptation and opportunity present themselves.

Trying to excuse/defend/explain the use of prostitutes on the basis of some supposed crisis of faith demonstrates little more than a pre-adolescent grasp of personal responsibility. Nor does attempting (badly) to couch those positions in what is intended to be sophisticated prose, while merely offering clouded, poorly executed, allusion - "...christianity today was non existant(sic) 100 years ago..." - work in support of your.....what? hypothesis? conclusion? question?....that marital morality is dependent on organized forms and institutions of worship.

If God is necessary to reinforce to you what is "right", as opposed to what is "holy", and you are having recent difficulty in hearing Him, then there is little hope that any of us mortals will be of aid. I wish you illumination, from some source.

You are trapped by this belief in secrecy. It will always make you feel like you can commit travesties and that it will be OK. The truth will set you free.

If you knew how powerful the truth is, how very regularly it comes out, you would know that keeping it a secret is not an option. You don't get to choose to stop it.

Everything has a trail. And your infidelity is so large, so selfish, so dark, that the trail is probably a mile wide. You wound and change these poor young girls and their parents. Your wife has restless dreams and blames herself for the persitent feeling of fear and distrust that she cannot explain.

No one told me of my H's affair. No evidence was uncovered which set off my suspicions.

But I knew. I knew something was wrong and the power of the truth would not let me rest. The thing that finally gave me my answer was not a tale-teller or discovered evidence. It was a facial expression. I saw an expression that gave away adultery and I knew. I then had to look quietly for evidence until I found proof. Which I got easily, because everything leaves a trail.

I pray for you to be caught if you will not confess. I pray for your wife to be released from that mysterious nagging doubt which will claim her eventually.

I pray that you will stop being a selfish little puppy, destructive in his enjoyment and thatyou will know the true value of what you are risking.

Like a thief, you stole but you want to stop without paying anything back.

If you confess to her, likely she will forgive you. If you do not, you will be caught.

Hopefully soon, because the longer you live a lie the worse you will become. Even if you stop the ONSs, you intend to continue lying and so your wife will never be truly safe with you.

I feel so, so sorry for your wife.

You have told us that you can't get caught and that there's no reason for your wife to know, and yet claim that you want to stop. Why? I suspect your conscience is telling you something you don't want to hear, and you want us to back you up in not listening: if others here can't philosophically debate you and put forth a convincing argument, then you'll take that as a reason it's okay to keep your current lifestyle.

Also, you're so concerned about your false image and how you'll be viewed if the truth came out that you're willing to sacrifice true fulfillment to keep that image.

I think your wife will indeed find out: she probably won't recover if she finds out in any other way except for you confessing it to her. You're living on borrowed time.

As indie said
'I pray for you to be caught if you will not confess. I pray for your wife to be released from that mysterious nagging doubt which will claim her eventually.'


Fact is, you are not bringing your whole self to the marriage.
Your wife is not receiving the intimacy possible to her if you told the truth, worked through it with her and rebuilt a real marriage.
You are not having a true, passionate love and sexual relationship built on sharing your whole self.

You created a mess of your own making.

Tell wife.

She will be shattered for sure but she can rebuild from it with time.

Don't tell wife

She will be shattered with an illusion that is simply not adding up in her heart.

Either way......you hold the burden for the mess. Whether you pay the piper or not.....you are a disaster right now.

BTW...your ONS are not hot stuff. They are debasing to both you and the OP involved. Debasing of your quality of life because you are, in reality, being cruel and hurtful to a woman and children who simply do not deserve such betrayal.

I really found out that I had been betrayed by my wife and it was devastating. Knowing now what I know I can see the secret was burning inside of her and destroying her. I would suggest to the creator of this thread that his secret will ultimately destroy him if he doesn't come clean. His eternal destiny is at stake as well.

Truth, like sorrow, floats.

Your wife WILL find out, sooner or later, maybe even after your death.

My husband thought he could keep his affairs secret as well.

I found out after 30 years.

If your wife finds out in any other way than you telling her the COMPLETE truth the FIRST time, she will ERASE every positive memory you think you've made, from that point back to the day you first met.

She will know that you never wanted true intimacy with her.

She will know that you thought of her as a possession you didn't want to lose, as opposed to a real person you wanted to have a relationship with.

She will know that you felt she was undeserving to know the truth about her own life.

When she does find out, send her here; others that have been placed on this path can help her heal and move on.

My condolences to your wife.

BV

I am curious why you have posted this on the MB forum.


Not being sarcastic, but how many marriages have you saved your life? How many people have you successfully counseled with addiction disorders which you have mentioned?


I for one rely heavily on the expertise of the author of this site, Dr. Harley. He has 40 years experience in helping those who want help.

His success (that's right, actually helping people turn their lives around...not just counseling sessions of people just pouring their hearts out) is based on what actually WORKS vs. mainstream 'philosophies'.


Dr. Harley's approach contradicts your traditional thinking (such as exposure).


Why do you think that is? Who do you think has the credentials and TANGIBLE results to back these things up?

Ok. I will play along.


So, based on these 2 ideas you have alone....I would say those would be 2 EXCELLENT reasons to expose. Wouldn't you? 1) Stopping the A and 2) WS having a guilty conscious??? Not a bad start!

However, you are very wrong. Dr. Harley's reasons come from a place of credibility. 40 years and thousands of recovered couples type of credibility.


Exposure only brings pain? Why would you say that.


Isn't it the Adultery what brings the pain? Isn't the truth just the truth?


Your thought process is coming from a mindset that we have seen hundreds of time on this site from WS's.


Its called wanting to avoid the consequences of your actions and choices.

I would imagine that if you had been a faithful spouse and just found out that your W had been lying and deceiving YOU all these years, you would be singing a different tune.

Okay, so you are a fraud. Now what? Do what you tell your child when they act like an entitled little brat.... you say "knock it off" or whatever. It's not worthy of imitating Socrates, it's a matter of "quit doing what yer doing!"

How sad that your entire life is a lie.... How does that feel?

Envious? uh, I think not. Most of us here are much more wise than you give credit.

We know too well to not judge a book by it's cover. Your seemingly 'great' life is a ruse.


The truth eventually comes out.

So, when you are on your death bed and your family is all around you (if you are that lucky) and you are reflecting on your life
I assume you are going to

'wish you just would have had more ONS's?

wish you would have just spend more time away from your family?

Wish you would have just lied a little more?

-----

How can you sleep at night? Seriously....

We know how he sleeps at night. How all waywards sleep.

At first they dont, but then they become hardened. We've all seen that.

The wayward thinks flirting/texting/admiration is OK. But keeps it a secret. Then they get physical action. Still a secret.

Then their conscience bothers them, so out that goes. If they still want to keep it a secret, they cant afford a conscience.

Their eyes get cold, they don't care about others' pain.

We've all seen it here.

Pep has written about this process in the Deception - Hardening - Destruction thread, here

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=2529053&an=

No man or woman can do these sorts of deeds without changing how they think and behave. And yet they think no one will ever notice!

It would be hilarious if it were not so tragic.

Why just think of the lies he must tell her, with a smooth smiling face.

I will never forget the total devastation to my mind, body and soul when I found out my FWW had been lying and deceiving me for 9 months.

After dday, I read a lot about PTSD and my symptoms lined up almost perfect to them. I never knew I could endure such trauma and physically survive. Some days I was just hanging on by a thin string and felt like it was going to snap at any moment.

In terms of the truth finally coming out, I would not have wanted it any other way. What I mean is, I am SO glad I found out the Truth.

This poster and his W are both living a lie. She is making decision about her future with him without all the information. So sad.

He doesn't realize that the most hurtful thing he is doing to his W is NOT the ONS's...it is the lying and deceiving. ---These are the things that he is going to have the most difficult time reconciling. Not the physical part of his adultery's.

If only this poster could grasp the magnitude of the pain and destruction he is creating by his CHOICES.

However, accountability and empathy are seldom qualities adopted by a WS during their Adultery. Blame shifting, skirting responsibility, making excuses why they don't do what they KNOW is the right thing...goes hand in hand..

An addiction is a powerful thing. This poster is so na�ve as to how accountability and recovery actually occur it is astonishing.


To those lurking...this is a great lesson to anyone actively in an A as to how someone in total denial thinks. Justification after Justification.

I have two thoughts.

1. This is for real. The OP comes across as arrogant. I pray that he confesses all to the BW and aid in her healing.

2. This is a troll on an agenda.

This has definitely entered my mind....am I feeding the troll???

Unless you have been through it, you don�t understand the pain of not knowing and the relief of finally knowing. I searched for days to get evidence. When I got it, it WAS devastating, but it was a blessed relief simply to finally know WHAT the mystery was - and that it wasn�t my fault. I would have forgiven him if he'd had a clue how to be honest, but it wasn�t a concept he could grasp.



Hmmm, maybe. But his story is a common one and even if it's not true, the advice given here would help someone.

With that in mind, Dr Harley has the following advice for those who think not telling their wife about pornography/ONSs/contrast effect is protecting her. I think his words are 'selfish and foolish'

If the wayward is sex addict he needs the help that only comes from asking for it. If he's simply 'selfish and foolish' it's because his secrecy has allowed him to be.

In other words, no matter what the cause, honesty is the cure.

So you KNOW all the answers! You're WAY smarter than any of us here who've broken with our past selfish behavior. What do you need us for? You've got it all figured out, haven't you? The secret isn't to BE good -- rather, the secret is to maintain a facade so that you LOOK good! Of COURSE! Why didn't I think of that? YOU have the inside line on reality -- the rest of us who aren't part of your "subculture" are the delusional ones. We're blessed that you're here to educate us.

All sarcasm aside, TwoSided, here's a true story (and bear in mind, I'm actually not yelling at ya at all -- rather, I'm whispering, as a friend might do over a cup of coffee, so that you hear me): It was only when I came face-to-face with the real potential consequences of my affair -- that is, after I told my wife, the woman to whom I'd promised to forsake all others, about it -- that I had a path out of it. And truth be told (so as not to give myself any undeserved credit), I only 'fessed up when my hand was forced (by the other woman's husband finding out about us). But... getting the truth out staked me to a place from which I couldn't retreat without losing my self-respect, without losing my family, the things I held dearest. Getting the truth out enabled me to break free of the pattern of horribly selfish behavior into which I'd descended, and truth has me a better marriage today than before the affair. And, truth be told, I AM a better person than 5 years ago, before the affair. That's the case regardless of what anyone may think. And frankly, I don't give a damn what others may think.

But (still whispering here), you're not really looking to change your conduct, are ya? So far, you're only looking to avoid facing the consequences of it. My friend, you could show up in a 3-acre bowling alley and still not find two balls to string together -- that's how much of a chicken**** you are right now. (That's not really a judgement, because I don't get paid a cent to judge ya, my friend -- it's just a bit of, shall we say, realism for a realistically-minded guy like you to consider.) So my advice to you would be to go away until you get serious about wanting to change. If/when that happens, give me a shout, and I'll be here to help.