This was a little hard for me to parse through some of the jargon, but I think he's saying something that looks like the older way Dr. Harley wrote about respectful persuasion:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5040_qa.html

By the way, if respectfully expressing your point of view leads to love busters on your wife's part, don't take that to mean that you did wrong in expressing your point of view. If she has a DJ problem (or other LB), then she will need some time to become "desensitized" to the anxiety she feels when you express a conflicting point of view. She will need repeated exposure (flooding).

There are two particular "traps" I have observed that often lead down the road to DJ-land;

"Why," and "I don't understand."

Or, the combination... "I don't understand why..."


The simplest explanation at any given time for either of these is "I like this" or "I don't like this."

Often times, we don't even know why we like or don't like something, it just is. Trying to explain to someone else "why" we feel one way or another gets us knotted up.

Other times, when we are passionate about a subject we can go in depth about it (usually, a string of attributes about a subject we also like). But, one has to be careful that when you do this, that you aren't trying to debate, or sway your spouse's opinion; just explain your passion, or just listen to theirs.

Don't be tempted to dig out a further "why," or dismiss with a "I don't understand."

I've tried to look more at Gottman - The Love Lab is here in our state - but, he doesn't have as much information freely available as Dr. Harley does. I have seen enough to know where some deviations exist.

I have also looked at their "Marriage Retreat" weekends, but they are rather expensive. BEAUTIFUL location, but $5000 for a weekend.

I do have kind of a educational pipe dream about going to study at the love lab, but there are still many steps between now and then.

Thanks for the responses. I got called to jury duty and the trial is expected to last for 2 weeks so that's why I haven't responded.

There was a lot of questioning for the jurors. I am proud to say that in the official court record my hobbies include "dating my wife".

There was also an interesting instruction and questioning from both attorneys about not discussing the case with you spouse. Not even to include things like "The court room is cold". The policy of RA came to mind.

Well, we had our monthly session with Dr Jennifer on Friday. Prior to the session, my W had expressed to me she didn't want to do them anymore, so I was expecting it to be the last one. We did end up scheduling one for next month, however.

She spent over an hour talking with my W before I got on the phone. I was told that I should expect my W to come to me with with a list of specific things I could be doing. I haven't seen the list as of yet however. Should I ask for it?

Why doesn't your W want to coach with Jennifer anymore?

Did Jennifer give you a date as to when you can expect it?

Because "She knows this stuff already" and it costs money.


I didn't get a date. I believe they spent the majority their time working on rearranging some ENs and coming up with some specific ways to meet those needs. Dr J did tell me that part of their conversation involved Dr J asking what I have been doing and then saying "But those are all of the things on your list." Implying that I was doing the things that my W had identified as things I could do to meet her ENs, yet it wasn't having any effect. Of course, I wasn't privy to the conversation they had so there may have been more to it.

I would tell her that Jennifer told you your wife would be giving you this list and see what your wife says and go from there.

OK I'll ask tonight. I just get the impression that all of this MB stuff is just something I'm making her do. Don't want to be timid about it, but at the same time it makes me feel like "enough is enough". KWIM?

I just get the impression that all of this MB stuff is just something I'm making her do. Don't want to be timid about it, but at the same time it makes me feel like "enough is enough".

"Enough is enough" sounds suspiciously like you have an expectation that you should see (have seen?) some changes in FC's demeanor and attitude toward you. Stop that!

But in a broader sense, does it come as a shock to you that a good Plan A is nothing more than poking a large hole in your love bucket, and letting it drain out? Faith, not hope, remember?

I GUESS hinting about the list from FC is advisable, but there would be some intel on her mindset to be garnered from seeing how long she would take to proffer it unbidden.

ETA: On reflection, that last tactic would NOT be Plan A. My bad!

For how long?

Until that hole in the bucket is the diameter of the bucket itself?

But FightTheFight is trying to recover his marriage and a man can safely be in the position of trying to win his wife back without losing his health.

He'll know when he's had enough, but in the meantime, for the sake of his family, he really wants to make this work. If the marriage can't be saved, it's really a tragedy. He'll likely lose the ability to live with his children.

FTF, can you encourage FC to call Joyce, as Joyce suggested when you all last spoke? Joyce would be so helpful and very happy to hear from your wife.

Make sure you are very careful about showing FC any disrespect. Have you been able to get out and spend some enjoyable time together?

PLAN A IS NOT FOR THE MODERATELY COMMITTED!

For illustrative purposes it can be envisioned as months of accumulated, stacked, "Attaboys", exposed to being tumbled down by merely one "Awww sh**!"

Not every BH can pull off an acceptable Plan A. GJM did; Markos did.

Even a great Plan A may be ineffective, the aforementioned GJM being a tragic example.

What is virtually certain, though, is that a flawed, inconsistent, impatient, Plan A will be ineffective.

Oh I agree with you, don't get me wrong. And the same would apply to his wife as well, which makes me wonder if she truly grasps this concept and what it really means. From what our poster writes, there doesn't appear to be a sense of desperation or urgency coming from her.

But we've been here before...

From what our poster writes, there doesn't appear to be a sense of desperation or urgency coming from her.

Whether true or not, the vital factor is that FTF has to focus on HIS actions, HIS goals, HIS desires, as anything else is a distraction.

Our job is to assist FTF in perfecting his Plan A. Agreed?

I also can think of a few more BHs who did a successful Plan A.

Mr.eureka
wle
Those are just a couple.

I'm not so sure about that. For months now, I've been having what I can only describe as panic attacks. It's like I am just thinking too much for too long and my brain wants to shut down. Feels like I am going to pass out. One day at work a few weeks ago, I had to ask my coworker to keep an eye on me for a bit until it passed. I thought I might need to go to the hospital or something. Not kidding, it was scary.

On the other hand, I'm not getting sick or coming down with any diseases like I've heard can happen with women. But I can testify that there are definitely health effects. Maybe not life threatening, but they are there.



I wish she would, but she doesn't want to for whatever reason. I've brought it up enough that it became annoying to mention it, so I let it go.


No disrespect from me or her either really. To be honest, this was a pretty easy habit to break for me because there wasn't a whole lot of it to begin with. We have never been ones to fight ever.

As far as enjoyable time, I've really focused on things she would like to do as long as it is something I would enjoy as well. We have been out a lot. Really good stuff too, like the amusement park, bowling etc. We even went to a local bar one Wednesday and played trivia on a whim. We are good friends, it just never gets past that.

Might she be looking for some incentive to call? I would surmise that people rarely seek aid in changing situations that they are, for whatever reason, content to remain in.