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I can't imagine running into POSOM...if so...I would probably be in jail right now..if not, definitely extremely depressed.

No doubt your H's R has been reset to day 1. I hope you realize that.


Your R will not be possible (IMO) if there is even a remote possibility of running in to OM at any point in your life (for either of you)...Ever.


Clearmind and I don't even go into the same Town as POSOM which is 70 miles away to go to her parents house as it is too massive of a trigger for both of us. Now, this has caused another issue with the in-laws but our M comes first. Even the thought of seeing him makes my blood boil and withdraw from Clearmind.

Honestly, I really think a move is something you should seriously consider. Having a hard time visualizing how your M is going to work living where you do.

My best advice to you is to be a positive and upbeat for you H as you can. Try to support him and let him know you are committed for the long run and will POJA ANY and ALL options to R your M.

Do you think he is in love with you?




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Originally Posted by fifteenyears
[quote=20YearHistory]How much UA time have you been getting?

Not enough. Since school started we have both been busy and our UA time has gone down hill. In addition, since running into OM last week, H has been distant towards me.

Here is a major problem in your R. UA time is the cornerstone of R. I had to learn this lesson the hard way. If you aren't getting a minimum of 15hrs/wk...R is going to be next to impossible.




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I think KGaa's thread should be a must read for every couple who has experienced this. You can see the agony and pain they went through until they got moved. After he moved his outlook changed tremendously.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I think Bride might have worded it as follows:

(Petname), I know it's not been an easy few weeks for you
and I'm sorry that I didn't see it before it peaked. How
about if we go to dinner either Friday or Saturday (you
pick the spot) so we can remember what is really important
in our lives - each other, and our beautiful family.

I love you very much.


Had Bride written this to me, she would have added some comments about saving room for "dessert" at home, but my innate modesty blush precludes my doing so!

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Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
I can't imagine running into POSOM...if so...I would probably be in jail right now..if not, definitely extremely depressed.

No doubt your H's R has been reset to day 1. I hope you realize that.


Your R will not be possible (IMO) if there is even a remote possibility of running in to OM at any point in your life (for either of you)...Ever.


Clearmind and I don't even go into the same Town as POSOM which is 70 miles away to go to her parents house as it is too massive of a trigger for both of us. Now, this has caused another issue with the in-laws but our M comes first. Even the thought of seeing him makes my blood boil and withdraw from Clearmind.

Honestly, I really think a move is something you should seriously consider. Having a hard time visualizing how your M is going to work living where you do.

My best advice to you is to be a positive and upbeat for you H as you can. Try to support him and let him know you are committed for the long run and will POJA ANY and ALL options to R your M.

Do you think he is in love with you?

That's a great question. I truly thought so until last week. I want to believe that he does but something he said last Saturday really chilled me to the bone. He asked me when the last time I remembered him saying he loved me? Now looking at it I think he had been pulling away since this spring when I ran into OM.

A lot of people accused me of not paying attention to the signs but he really does a good job of acting normal, loving, and like nothing is wrong. He is so hard to read and talk to.

I know a lot if it is a pride thing. His family does not talk or communicate at all. They hide their emotions and feelings until things boil over and then they shut down.

The really odd thing about all if this is that although he has been child's to my face he has been doing really nice caring things for me like getting my car fixed, inspected, and my plates updated. Today he got trash bags and laundry soap for me so I didn't game to go after school.

So back to your original question, I am not real sure.


Me (WS) Husband (BS)
DS - 15
DD -10
My D-day - 11/12/11

Today Me (BS) H (WS)
D-Day #2 01/14/12
I don't want to just survive my affair, I want to recover from it!
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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I think KGaa's thread should be a must read for every couple who has experienced this. You can see the agony and pain they went through until they got moved. After he moved his outlook changed tremendously.


I will read that and am already setting in motion the plan to move away and soon.


Me (WS) Husband (BS)
DS - 15
DD -10
My D-day - 11/12/11

Today Me (BS) H (WS)
D-Day #2 01/14/12
I don't want to just survive my affair, I want to recover from it!
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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
I think Bride might have worded it as follows:

(Petname), I know it's not been an easy few weeks for you
and I'm sorry that I didn't see it before it peaked. How
about if we go to dinner either Friday or Saturday (you
pick the spot) so we can remember what is really important
in our lives - each other, and our beautiful family.

I love you very much.


Had Bride written this to me, she would have added some comments about saving room for "dessert" at home, but my innate modesty blush precludes my doing so!


Well, NG it is to late to use that those words for a text but I may be able to use them tonight and if course add the dessert part in if all goes well.


Me (WS) Husband (BS)
DS - 15
DD -10
My D-day - 11/12/11

Today Me (BS) H (WS)
D-Day #2 01/14/12
I don't want to just survive my affair, I want to recover from it!
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Here you go.
KGaa12's Thread


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I took to heart all of the advice that I have gotten on here and brought it with me to the table last night at dinner...no pun intended.

NG, I looked nice, dressed up, tried to keep the conversation light and enjoy the evening. It actually was nice because it broke the ice between us that had been settling all week. We sat outside and the weather was beautiful. Even though we did not talk about anything too deep, I felt the dinner went well and made both of us a little more at ease.

We actually didn't really talk until this morning. It is so hard for both of us to really have true conversations. I think it is one of the biggest flaws in our marriage. It literally took me twenty minutes of laying in bed to finally start it.

Sorry I am rambling but you guys are my sounding board so I need to get all of this out. I told him that I was sorry that I have not helped him feel safe and have allowed us to continue to live in an area full of triggers. That it took him being hit by the biggest one of all to open up both of our eyes to the danger around us.

I told him that no matter what happened between us that I was going to get the ball rolling on moving away; whether it be a town or two over or a state or two over (we have both mentioned living in Colorado).

I told him that one of the reasons I felt we are back to square one, other than not moving was the fact that we really don't communicate with each other. I suggested that part of our UA time being at least once a week really talking to each other about our concerns, triggers, not feeling safe, or anything that was really bothering us that week. Of course we do not have to wait and only do it once a week but I feel that if we don't set time aside it will not happen and we will revert back into our old ways (like we have this past year).

I told him that I am not 100% sure how he feels right now but I just feel like if we really did work on opening up our communication and get out of this town that our marriage would have a fighting chance.

His response to me was that he really thinks he is done. That he does not feel that he can or will ever love me the way that he did in the past. Ironically, 20 Years, he brought up our past. It was weird that he did this at this time because what you said about the past being in the past really stuck with me and we actually got a great discussion out of it.

So he mentioned the past and how happy we were and how much he loved me and that he just can't see that future for us. My response was that by going back into the past we will never have a solid future that neither of us our the same people but that does not mean that we can not have a future that is just as good if not better than the past.

In all honesty, I know he looks at our past in a pleasant light, but I do not see it as pleasantly as he does. While I did not go into these details with him I will go into just a few with you. He frequently lied to me about stupid little things, making me always question him and draining my trust every time he lied and I found out the truth. He lived a very independent life style, went out all of the time and left me at home with the kids. He was in at least three sports all at once year round. He was always Love busted me whenever he had too much to drink, did not treat me with respect in front of our friends. To be specific he was always fondling me and slapping my butt, saying vulgar things in front of others.

I did not mind this in the privacy of our own home but in front of others it made me feel cheap. I remember either reading in one of Dr. H's books (I think it was Lovebusters) or on the radio him saying that not all women enjoy or want this type of flattery. Again, at home I was fine with it but not in public. In addition, I really just wanted to be told I was beautiful rather than getting a love tap.

This behavior did improve as we got older but I honestly have never even to this day told him the affects of this and the resentment I held for so long. I wish I would have been honest instead of choosing an Affair but again, I can no longer linger in the past. I have to look at the future and can't linger in the past, only learn from the mistakes of the past. And that is exactly what I told him today. (Please do not read this the wrong way. I did not in any way excuse my affair, tell him to get over it, dismiss it, or make it seem like it is not still affecting and going to affect our future. I chose my words very carefully and just asked him not to compare our past with our future).

I once again told him that leaving is not going to take away the pain and that the most important thing to me was him and our family. I really feel that moving away is a much better solution than running away. I again reiterated that while we got off to a strong MB start last year that we really didn't continue it and that is why we are back in the same boat today.

He asked me how I knew that he would not be happier if he left? That maybe we are both holding onto something that is too damaged to repair. My response was that I just knew, that by truly following MB and by leaving the area full of triggers that we could rebuild our marriage.

I also have this question in my mind. Deep in my heart I feel that we could have an amazing marriage. That we have both made our mistakes and are learning from them and can make our future awesome. I little part of me though can't help but feel that I am forcing him to stay with me and that he is going to end up hating me and resenting me for making him stay. That he will never be able to forgive me and love me the same way.

One last thing. When he got into the shower today I went and snooped in his car. Again, I am almost positive there is no one else but the MB way says trust but verify. While I did not find anything suspicious I did find a letter that we wrote last year on 8/22/12. It was so weird because when I first started reading it, I thought it was from this year (it could have been, the thoughts and words were very similar to the ones he is saying right now). As I continued to read, I realized it was a letter that he wrote last year and read to me at the beginning of September last year.

I might actually ask him if I can put it on here. It just basically talked about his fears at letting me back in and how he didn't see how we could work out with OM living close by (wish we both would have jumped on that one). That he didn't know if he could love me the same way. That he was worried that I was just sticking with him until someone better came along. That he had my phone #, email, etc... and I still was able to carry out an affair. That when I really want to be sneaky I can be.

While these were his fears last year, I feel like a lot of them are still there today and that is why he is ready to quit. I have tried to do a lot on my part to ease some of these fears but I do realize that it is not enough. Until we move, it will never be enough.

Sorry I wrote a book. Thank you for reading/listening.

Last edited by fifteenyears; 09/14/13 03:50 PM.

Me (WS) Husband (BS)
DS - 15
DD -10
My D-day - 11/12/11

Today Me (BS) H (WS)
D-Day #2 01/14/12
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Soooooooo, you and he had some serious discussions this morning, and his plan currently is........?

I'm NOT hearing "pack his bags and leave before Monday", so I believe your status would be described as VERY close to where you were about a year ago, all brought back to reality by inattention to MB tenets of NC and EPs, right?

I'll take as a "given" that the lesson has been learned, and you will see to it that a year from now, we won't be going through this yet again.

A year ago, remember, you were also wrestling with the ILs. That is not the problem today, so you are in a much stronger position to help FBH through this, and you have concrete efforts you can apply to help make your case.

1) MAKE THE MOVE HAPPEN.
2) EXPLAIN TO DD THAT "DEAR FRIEND" IS OFF THE CHARTS. A ten-year-old's resentment is NOTHING when stacked against the reassurance to FBH of his feelings.

As for this:

He asked me how I knew that he would not be happier if he left? That maybe we are both holding onto something that is too damaged to repair.

Your answer was good, and if it suffices, leave it alone. If the issue re-arises, though, you can use that marriage vows, made before family, friends, and God, are not to be discarded "on spec", that they were meant to be the anchor to your lives together, and though BOTH of you broke some of the major principles, that does NOT mean that the remainder should be so easily discarded.

Absent extremely compelling factors to the contrary, the default position is "Marriage is forever", accompanied by the "honor, cherish, protect" stuff. I will bet he knows that already, but is very desirous of hearing it from you.

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Originally Posted by fifteenyears
I took to heart all of the advice that I have gotten on here and brought it with me to the table last night at dinner...no pun intended.

NG, I looked nice, dressed up, tried to keep the conversation light and enjoy the evening. It actually was nice because it broke the ice between us that had been settling all week. We sat outside and the weather was beautiful. Even though we did not talk about anything too deep, I felt the dinner went well and made both of us a little more at ease.

We actually didn't really talk until this morning. It is so hard for both of us to really have true conversations. I think it is one of the biggest flaws in our marriage. It literally took me twenty minutes of laying in bed to finally start it.

Sorry I am rambling but you guys are my sounding board so I need to get all of this out. I told him that I was sorry that I have not helped him feel safe and have allowed us to continue to live in an area full of triggers. That it took him being hit by the biggest one of all to open up both of our eyes to the danger around us.

I told him that no matter what happened between us that I was going to get the ball rolling on moving away; whether it be a town or two over or a state or two over (we have both mentioned living in Colorado).

I told him that one of the reasons I felt we are back to square one, other than not moving was the fact that we really don't communicate with each other. Dr. Harley has explained that "communication issues" are what most marriage counselors focus on, but in his experience, they are rarely the underlying cause of serious marital problems.(I'm referring to general communication as opposed to meeting each other's emotional needs for openness/honesty and intimate conversation.) and his I suggested that part of our UA time being at least once a week really talking to each other about our concerns, triggers, not feeling safe, or anything that was really bothering us that week. I could be completely off base here, but my gut feeling is that scheduling weekly time to discuss everything that's wrong in the relationship would be a huge lovebuster. It seems to me that your biggest marital problem is that your husband is not in love with you anymore, so you need to be making massive lovebank deposits and avoiding those sort of lovebusters like the plague. Of course we do not have to wait and only do it once a week but I feel that if we don't set time aside it will not happen and we will revert back into our old ways (like we have this past year).

I told him that I am not 100% sure how he feels right now but I just feel like if we really did work on opening up our communication and get out of this town that our marriage would have a fighting chance.

His response to me was that he really thinks he is done. You keep complaining that he doesn't share his feelings with you, yet your posts are full of information regarding the feelings he has been sharing with you. It seems like you accuse him of being unclear when you don't want to accept what he is saying.That he does not feel that he can or will ever love me the way that he did in the past. Ironically, 20 Years, he brought up our past. It was weird that he did this at this time because what you said about the past being in the past really stuck with me and we actually got a great discussion out of it.

So he mentioned the past and how happy we were and how much he loved me and that he just can't see that future for us. My response was that by going back into the past we will never have a solid future that neither of us our the same people but that does not mean that we can not have a future that is just as good if not better than the past.

In all honesty, I know he looks at our past in a pleasant light, but I do not see it as pleasantly as he does. While I did not go into these details with him I will go into just a few with you. He frequently lied to me about stupid little things, making me always question him and draining my trust every time he lied and I found out the truth. He lived a very independent life style, went out all of the time and left me at home with the kids. He was in at least three sports all at once year round. He was always Love busted me whenever he had too much to drink, did not treat me with respect in front of our friends. To be specific he was always fondling me and slapping my butt, saying vulgar things in front of others.

I did not mind this in the privacy of our own home but in front of others it made me feel cheap. I remember either reading in one of Dr. H's books (I think it was Lovebusters) or on the radio him saying that not all women enjoy or want this type of flattery. Again, at home I was fine with it but not in public. In addition, I really just wanted to be told I was beautiful rather than getting a love tap. If you know he will read this, and your intention is to win him back so he is in love with you again, why do you keep making disparaging remarks about him? From the beginning of your thread, your posts have been full of biting criticisms. Every time you do it, it makes me cringe. I can only imagine how it makes your BH feel.

This behavior did improve as we got older but I honestly have never even to this day told him (That is rather disingenuous considering you just wrote it on a public forum that you know he will read!) the affects of this and the resentment I held for so long. I wish I would have been honest It seems to me that your failure to be honest with each other is what you are referring to as a "communication failure." instead of choosing an Affair but again, I can no longer linger in the past. I have to look at the future and can't linger in the past, only learn from the mistakes of the past. And that is exactly what I told him today. (Please do not read this the wrong way. I did not in any way excuse my affair, tell him to get over it, dismiss it, or make it seem like it is not still affecting and going to affect our future. I chose my words very carefully and just asked him not to compare our past with our future).

I once again told him that leaving is not going to take away the pain and that the most important thing to me was him and our family. I really feel that moving away is a much better solution than running away. I again reiterated that while we got off to a strong MB start last year that we really didn't continue it and that is why we are back in the same boat today.

He asked me how I knew that he would not be happier if he left? That maybe we are both holding onto something that is too damaged to repair. My response was that I just knew, that by truly following MB and by leaving the area full of triggers that we could rebuild our marriage.

I also have this question in my mind. Deep in my heart I feel that we could have an amazing marriage. That we have both made our mistakes and are learning from them and can make our future awesome. I little part of me though can't help but feel that I am forcing him to stay with me and that he is going to end up hating me and resenting me for making him stay. That he will never be able to forgive me and love me the same way.

One last thing. When he got into the shower today I went and snooped in his car. Again, I am almost positive there is no one else but the MB way says trust but verify. While I did not find anything suspicious I did find a letter that we wrote last year on 8/22/12. It was so weird because when I first started reading it, I thought it was from this year (it could have been, the thoughts and words were very similar to the ones he is saying right now). As I continued to read, I realized it was a letter that he wrote last year and read to me at the beginning of September last year.

I might actually ask him if I can put it on here. Why would you ask him if you could publicly post his most private thoughts? Where is your instinct to protect him? It just basically talked about his fears at letting me back in and how he didn't see how we could work out with OM living close by (wish we both would have jumped on that one). That he didn't know if he could love me the same way. That he was worried that I was just sticking with him until someone better came along. That he had my phone #, email, etc... and I still was able to carry out an affair. That when I really want to be sneaky I can be.

While these were his fears last year, I feel like a lot of them are still there today and that is why he is ready to quit. I have tried to do a lot on my part to ease some of these fears but I do realize that it is not enough. Until we move, it will never be enough.

Sorry I wrote a book. Thank you for reading/listening.

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Originally Posted by fifteenyears
I have tried to do a lot on my part to ease some of these fears but I do realize that it is not enough. Until we move, it will never be enough.

It sounds like you are trying to give yourself a pass, as if you did your best, but the triggers were ultimately out of your control. In reality, you didn't take EPs seriously enough, and you didn't keep your promise to tell BH immediately if you ever saw POSOM again.

I agree that you need to move, but you chose to delay telling your BH that you saw POSOM, and you chose not to strictly follow EPs. You can't blame your choices on the proximity of POSOM's house.


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Originally Posted by JessicaClaire
Originally Posted by fifteenyears
I took to heart all of the advice that I have gotten on here and brought it with me to the table last night at dinner...no pun intended.

NG, I looked nice, dressed up, tried to keep the conversation light and enjoy the evening. It actually was nice because it broke the ice between us that had been settling all week. We sat outside and the weather was beautiful. Even though we did not talk about anything too deep, I felt the dinner went well and made both of us a little more at ease.

We actually didn't really talk until this morning. It is so hard for both of us to really have true conversations. I think it is one of the biggest flaws in our marriage. It literally took me twenty minutes of laying in bed to finally start it.

Sorry I am rambling but you guys are my sounding board so I need to get all of this out. I told him that I was sorry that I have not helped him feel safe and have allowed us to continue to live in an area full of triggers. That it took him being hit by the biggest one of all to open up both of our eyes to the danger around us.

I told him that no matter what happened between us that I was going to get the ball rolling on moving away; whether it be a town or two over or a state or two over (we have both mentioned living in Colorado).

I told him that one of the reasons I felt we are back to square one, other than not moving was the fact that we really don't communicate with each other. Dr. Harley has explained that "communication issues" are what most marriage counselors focus on, but in his experience, they are rarely the underlying cause of serious marital problems.(I'm referring to general communication as opposed to meeting each other's emotional needs for openness/honesty and intimate conversation.)


[color:#3366FF]Yes JC, this is what I am talking about. One of my big EN's is conversation and talking honestly.[/color]

I suggested that part of our UA time being at least once a week really talking to each other about our concerns, triggers, not feeling safe, or anything that was really bothering us that week. I could be completely off base here, but my gut feeling is that scheduling weekly time to discuss everything that's wrong in the relationship would be a huge lovebuster. It seems to me that your biggest marital problem is that your husband is not in love with you anymore, so you need to be making massive lovebank deposits and avoiding those sort of lovebusters like the plague. [color:#000099]

[color:#3333FF]I believe I said we would be talking about concerns, honesty and triggers. Not once did I mention love busters. I believe it is considered honesty. I guess if we went at it in an accusation tone it might be love busting, but that is not the point.[/color] [/color][/col[/color]or]


Of course we do not have to wait and only do it once a week but I feel that if we don't set time aside it will not happen and we will revert back into our old ways (like we have this past year).

I told him that I am not 100% sure how he feels right now but I just feel like if we really did work on opening up our communication and get out of this town that our marriage would have a fighting chance.

His response to me was that he really thinks he is done. You keep complaining that he doesn't share his feelings with you, yet your posts are full of information regarding the feelings he has been sharing with you. It seems like you accuse him of being unclear when you don't want to accept what he is saying. [color:#000099]


[color:#000099]He is very unclear because most of the time when we talk he tells me and acts like things are fine. When I do express his feelings on this site it is only after something major has happened.[/color][/color][/color]

That he does not feel that he can or will ever love me the way that he did in the past. Ironically, 20 Years, he brought up our past. It was weird that he did this at this time because what you said about the past being in the past really stuck with me and we actually got a great discussion out of it.

So he mentioned the past and how happy we were and how much he loved me and that he just can't see that future for us. My response was that by going back into the past we will never have a solid future that neither of us our the same people but that does not mean that we can not have a future that is just as good if not better than the past.

In all honesty, I know he looks at our past in a pleasant light, but I do not see it as pleasantly as he does. While I did not go into these details with him I will go into just a few with you. He frequently lied to me about stupid little things, making me always question him and draining my trust every time he lied and I found out the truth. He lived a very independent life style, went out all of the time and left me at home with the kids. He was in at least three sports all at once year round. He was always Love busted me whenever he had too much to drink, did not treat me with respect in front of our friends. To be specific he was always fondling me and slapping my butt, saying vulgar things in front of others.

I did not mind this in the privacy of our own home but in front of others it made me feel cheap. I remember either reading in one of Dr. H's books (I think it was Lovebusters) or on the radio him saying that not all women enjoy or want this type of flattery. Again, at home I was fine with it but not in public. In addition, I really just wanted to be told I was beautiful rather than getting a love tap. If you know he will read this, and your intention is to win him back so he is in love with you again, why do you keep making disparaging remarks about him? From the beginning of your thread, your posts have been full of biting criticisms. Every time you do it, it makes me cringe. I can only imagine how it makes your BH feel. I don't sit there and criticize him to his face. I never have. In fact I have been very shut lipped about these things as I mentioned before. [color:#000099] He does not read on here anymore so I am not saying these thing to hurt him or justify anything that I have done. I am sorry they make you cringe but they are things that I have realized through MB that are not healthy in a marriage. I am honestly trying to give a bigger view of my marriage to people on here because I again feel that the more people hear the more they can understand and give advice. I am not trying to knock down my H. If he does see this then I hope it gives us an opportunity to be honest with each other but that is not my intention at all.[/color]

This behavior did improve as we got older but I honestly have never even to this day told him (That is rather disingenuous considering you just wrote it on a public forum that you know he will read!)[/color[color:#000099]]He actually knows I post on here and that I post both of our thoughts. He does not read on here often but again, I am not trying to hide anything. the affects of this and the resentment I held for so long. I wish I would have been honest It seems to me that your failure to be honest with each other is what you are referring to as a "communication failure." [color:#000099]Exactly!![/color]instead of choosing an Affair but again, I can no longer linger in the past. I have to look at the future and can't linger in the past, only learn from the mistakes of the past. And that is exactly what I told him today. (Please do not read this the wrong way. I did not in any way excuse my affair, tell him to get over it, dismiss it, or make it seem like it is not still affecting and going to affect our future. I chose my words very carefully and just asked him not to compare our past with our future).

I once again told him that leaving is not going to take away the pain and that the most important thing to me was him and our family. I really feel that moving away is a much better solution than running away. I again reiterated that while we got off to a strong MB start last year that we really didn't continue it and that is why we are back in the same boat today.

He asked me how I knew that he would not be happier if he left? That maybe we are both holding onto something that is too damaged to repair. My response was that I just knew, that by truly following MB and by leaving the area full of triggers that we could rebuild our marriage.

I also have this question in my mind. Deep in my heart I feel that we could have an amazing marriage. That we have both made our mistakes and are learning from them and can make our future awesome. I little part of me though can't help but feel that I am forcing him to stay with me and that he is going to end up hating me and resenting me for making him stay. That he will never be able to forgive me and love me the same way.

One last thing. When he got into the shower today I went and snooped in his car. Again, I am almost positive there is no one else but the MB way says trust but verify. While I did not find anything suspicious I did find a letter that we wrote last year on 8/22/12. It was so weird because when I first started reading it, I thought it was from this year (it could have been, the thoughts and words were very similar to the ones he is saying right now). As I continued to read, I realized it was a letter that he wrote last year and read to me at the beginning of September last year.

I might actually ask him if I can put it on here. Why would you ask him if you could publicly post his most private thoughts? Where is your instinct to protect him? How am I not protecting him by posting his thoughts? Again, I am not keeping this site a secret from him and he knows I post both of our thoughts on him. I would however ask if I actually him. How is posting his thoughts on MB not protecting him? If anything it is helping him by allowing others in the same predicament to comment on it.It just basically talked about his fears at letting me back in and how he didn't see how we could work out with OM living close by (wish we both would have jumped on that one). That he didn't know if he could love me the same way. That he was worried that I was just sticking with him until someone better came along. That he had my phone #, email, etc... and I still was able to carry out an affair. That when I really want to be sneaky I can be.

While these were his fears last year, I feel like a lot of them are still there today and that is why he is ready to quit. I have tried to do a lot on my part to ease some of these fears but I do realize that it is not enough. Until we move, it will never be enough.

Sorry I wrote a book. Thank you for reading/listening.

Last edited by fifteenyears; 09/15/13 12:06 AM.

Me (WS) Husband (BS)
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My D-day - 11/12/11

Today Me (BS) H (WS)
D-Day #2 01/14/12
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Originally Posted by JessicaClaire
Originally Posted by fifteenyears
I have tried to do a lot on my part to ease some of these fears but I do realize that it is not enough. Until we move, it will never be enough.

It sounds like you are trying to give yourself a pass, as if you did your best, but the triggers were ultimately out of your control. In reality, you didn't take EPs seriously enough, and you didn't keep your promise to tell BH immediately if you ever saw POSOM again.

I agree that you need to move, but you chose to delay telling your BH that you saw POSOM, and you chose not to strictly follow EPs. You can't blame your choices on the proximity of POSOM's house.


A pass for what? If I was trying to give myself a pass I would just throw in the towel. I am not giving myself a pass for anything. I realize I made a mistake and was not taking my EP's seriously. The fact that I am still on this site openly admitting that I have messed up proves that I am not giving myself a pass at all.

Yes, I did make choices that I regret to now. I am admitting that. I made mistakes!!!! They were my choices but not intentional choices. I did not realize at the time and yes once again I realize, I made a mistakes. But I just don't see what pass I gave myself. Maybe a pass back to hell? Yes, I realize I messed up. I really don't need anyone else to tell me that. Now I am trying to get back on track. Again, I realize it might me be too little to late but i am not going to give up.




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You are so defensive that I hesitate to even post to you.

Both JC and WF had some good points that I believe you overlooked because of this defensiveness.

Originally Posted by fifteenyears
I told him that one of the reasons I felt we are back to square one, other than not moving was the fact that we really don't communicate with each other.

I really wish you had discussed this with us before saying this to your H.

It's too bad that the SOLE focus of the dinner wasn't just demonstrating to your H your seriousness about protecting him from the OM and moving. Then the rest of the time could have been used to try to make some LB$ deposits, as JC tried to point out.

This "we need to communicate better" phrase probably came off as a DJ. If your H has trouble being O&H with you, you realize that your reaction in the past to his feelings and thoughts has most likely played a role in the problem? As both JC and WF pointed out, I agree that you need to focus on eliminating ALL lovebusters, especially when your H talks to you about his feelings. There are Q&A articles about this under O&H. I would read them if you haven't already.

Again, as JC points out, "communicate better" is not MB, 15. You need to stop the bleeding from the broken NC. Aside from that and aside working on eliminating all lovebusters, it sounds like UA time is and has not been followed. You guys can't meet each other's ENs if you are not getting the UA time in and it's no wonder that your H feels hopeless.

What happened with DD's friend that lives two door down from OM? Has your DD continued going over there?



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SusieQ #2755023 09/15/13 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SusieQ
You are so defensive that I hesitate to even post to you.

I think the reason I get so defensive is because no matter what I say my words always get misconstrued and then people create their own scenarios based off of that. I also feel sometimes that no matter what I do there will be someone on here telling me I did something wrong. I have read all of Dr. H's books, I listen to his radio show frequently and get on here a lot. I know I am not an expert by far but I feel that I do know a lot and do try to apply them. Yes, I also know that I have made A LOT of mistakes! I am not saying that I have not, nor am I saying that at times they do not need to be pointed out to me. I however need direction on how to move fwd. Not to continue to get bashed (disrespectfully judged) over and over again.



Both JC and WF had some good points that I believe you overlooked because of this defensiveness. I agree! I think both of them had a lot of great point[b]s. I also feel that there was a lot of disrespectful judging going on. [/b]

Originally Posted by fifteenyears
I told him that one of the reasons I felt we are back to square one, other than not moving was the fact that we really don't communicate with each other.

I really wish you had discussed this with us before saying this to your H.

I realize on here I used the word communicate. I used this word as well with my H but went further into talking about Openness and Honesty. I did not do this in a love busting way either. In fact, I blamed myself more for not being open and honest with him. I apologized again for not telling him right away about seeing OM. I also used the words Dr. H said to express your feelings the "I feel" rather than "You did"

It's too bad that the SOLE focus of the dinner wasn't just demonstrating to your H your seriousness about protecting him from the OM and moving. Then the rest of the time could have been used to try to make some LB$ deposits, as JC tried to point out.

Here is where I get confused. I have read and a number of people have advised me that when you are having UA time, it should be enjoyable and that the uncomfortable or "bad" stuff should be left for another time. So that is what I did at dinner. The next morning while we were laying in bed, I did exactly what you mentioned above.

This "we need to communicate better" phrase probably came off as a DJ. If your H has trouble being O&H with you, you realize that your reaction in the past to his feelings and thoughts has most likely played a role in the problem? As both JC and WF pointed out, I agree that you need to focus on eliminating ALL lovebusters, especially when your H talks to you about his feelings. There are Q&A articles about this under O&H. I would read them if you haven't already.

I have read and re-read these and I intentionally did not come across pointing the finger at him. I will admit in the past I did used to get angry and upset when he was honest with me. Since getting on this site however I have tried very hard not to react to things he has said in a negative way. I am still working on listening better (this is my biggest problem) and yesterday morning I did listen to everything he had to say and was very calm, open, and supportive. I offered a lot of JC, apologies for my actions this past year and suggested a number of things that we can do together to help our marriage...moving being the number one thing.

Again, as JC points out, "communicate better" is not MB, 15. You need to stop the bleeding from the broken NC. Aside from that and aside working on eliminating all lovebusters, it sounds like UA time is and has not been followed. You guys can't meet each other's ENs if you are not getting the UA time in and it's no wonder that your H feels hopeless.

I guess I still don't get why you guys think that I am using the broken NC as a pass or excuse. I am not at all. I was and am trying to eliminate LB's. Not going to lie and say that I am perfect at it, but I have gotten much better, I completely agree on the UA time and the EN's. When we were getting our 15 plus in it made a world of difference. Now I feel like he is once again pulling away from me which means that UA time will be limited. I am not sure how to get him to stay and spend time with me other than making massive LB deposits every time I see him and find ways/reasons to spend time together. He has however reverted back to just going over to his buddies house to watch football (that is what he did tonight)and then telling me after the fact rather than asking if it was okay.

How do I let him know that this is a major EN buster and still make LB's? I have gotten mixed advice on this in the past, so I really don't know how to handle this.


What happened with DD's friend that lives two door down from OM? Has your DD continued going over there?

H still insists on allowing her to see this girl as long as we don't have to go near the neighborhood. I discussed everything that was brought to light on here and he does not agree with a lot of it. He said the only thing that bothered him was the fact that I ran into OM and even pondered the thought of not telling him. That the fact that she lives two doors down does not even bother him. Please don't jump down my throat for this one. I am just repeating his words. Some of you say that my reaction to his honesty has shut him down and stopped him from being honest, I feel the same way about posting some of my comments on here. I am so scared that my words will be scrutinized that sometimes I don't even want to tell you everything. That however was me telling you exactly what he said about our DD's friend.


Me (WS) Husband (BS)
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My D-day - 11/12/11

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H still insists on allowing her to see this girl as long as we don't have to go near the neighborhood. I discussed everything that was brought to light on here and he does not agree with a lot of it. He said the only thing that bothered him was the fact that I ran into OM and even pondered the thought of not telling him. That the fact that she lives two doors down does not even bother him.

No jumping down your throat from here, XVY. One question, then one suggestion, kiddo.

Do you have ANY evidence to suggest that BH has judgment in this matter superior to that of all of us here, buttressed by Dr Harley's principles, that would convince YOU that continuing DD contact with her GF is wise?

Assuming the answer to that question, may I remind you of the basic principle of POJA? Until you can BOTH enthusiastically agree that DD should visit her friend, she does not.

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MB gives us the opportunity to re-define our M after an A. I know that my M will forever have an "*" next to it..however, I am doing my best to live for today and tomorrow.

I suspect that both you and your H are both using the past as a reference point in looking at your Today. You know, discussing how things were and then comparing your current status together.

The problem with this line of thinking is that it holds you back from moving to a better future. I too had days that I was ready to throw in the towel, you just have to hold on and let the program do what it's job. Have Faith.

Having heavy conversations all the time is a real drag. UA time is designed to bond you together and look toward the future.

If you could both try an experiment in which for the next 30 days, neither of you brought up anything concerning 'yesterday' at all...things might turn around for you. I mean not even talking about what you had for dinner the night before. Nothing.

Huge help in my personal R as a BS.


The days that I am truly able to 'put the past in the past', I am very happy in my New M and feel optimistic of the future. I have been (and still have my days) where your H is.

Somehow you both have to find a way to let it go. By not talking or thinking about the past at all and USING MB to the best of your ability..you can create a Forward Thinking Mentality in which you both can prove to the other that you have both changed.

4 things within MB that have turned us around:

1) UA time
2) POJA
3) PORH
4) Letting the past GO

Also, again, it is hard to imagine how moving would work against your R.

2-5 years....2-5years...

ETA: Also, another thing that has helped us is to constantly have something to look forward to or planned projects like..overnight stays, fun things planned for UA time during the weeks/weekends, projects around the house that we work on together. Keeping our eyes on positive things/events/activities for the FUTURE gives us fun things to think and talk about together.





Last edited by 20YearHistory; 09/16/13 07:44 AM.
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Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
I know that my M will forever have an "*" next to it..however, I am doing my best to live for today and tomorrow.
Why would you think that? It sounds like the beginning of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

20year - you have come so far. Don't hang on to the residual of resentment. It will go away, if you let it.


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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
H still insists on allowing her to see this girl as long as we don't have to go near the neighborhood. I discussed everything that was brought to light on here and he does not agree with a lot of it. He said the only thing that bothered him was the fact that I ran into OM and even pondered the thought of not telling him. That the fact that she lives two doors down does not even bother him.

"BH, I am totally dedicated to you and this M. I don't ever want you to feel unsafe with me. In the future, what would be the best way for me to handle these types of situations to prove my honesty and openness to you? I am and have not hidden anything from you. I want to do what I can to help you to trust me and fall back in love with me. I want to do my part to create a safe, secure and loving M."

Let him tell you..then DO it.

I encourage you to start being as Open and Honest as possible to the extent that makes him feel safe with you at all times about absolutely everything. I mean Everything. Even things that seem trivial to you and unimportant...they indeed might be important to him.

One more thing..Patience..and lots of it.

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