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OK we have our time scheduled for this week and the babysitter lined up. We are using a new babysitter for our weekday nights out and the regular one for our Saturday night out. This way, if one cancels, we can call the other one. Hopefully this new one will be as good as the one we have now.

If we can get this done, it will be the first week we have been able to get in this much time.


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Originally Posted by kerala
Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by LongWayFromHome
I know that baby sitters can be pricey, but rewards to your marriage over the long term will be worth it. Did you hear the call from a couple of weeks ago in which Dr. Harley told a caller that raising a family is expensive and it's unlikely to be able to save much money while the children are growing up?

That was me, actually. smile

I'd be interested in hearing that, if there's a link.

It doesn't seem to be in the archives, yet.


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Originally Posted by FightTheFight
If we can get this done, it will be the first week we have been able to get in this much time.

I predict you will see a big difference!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by FightTheFight
If we can get this done, it will be the first week we have been able to get in this much time.

I predict you will see a big difference!

I predict I won't for weeks. smile That's what I prepared for anyway.


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I predict I won't for weeks. That's what I prepared for anyway.

BINGO! No Expectations!

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
I predict I won't for weeks. That's what I prepared for anyway.

BINGO! No Expectations!
You need to find another word besides "expectations". Everyone understands than an effective plan A needs to be implemented independent of immediate reaction from the WS, simply because it takes time to build LB balances. Saying "no expectations" is saying one shouldn't expect plan A to work. It is foolishness to believe that. For BHs, plan A gives their best chance for recovery.


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You need to find another word besides "expectations".

Okay, how about:

Proceed with Plan A having no specific anticipation of overt
effectiveness of the implementation of your EN satisfactions
on the subject WW. Replace such anticipation with faith
in the relative (NOT absolute) efficacy of the Plan A process,
as demonstrated through the histories of folks here who can
testify to its value. Know also that having even covert
benchmarks (either of actions or schedule) will negatively
impact the Plan A effectiveness, much as digging up newly
sown seeds to inspect their germination will prevent one's
garden from achieving its potential.


But that seems like a LOT of two-finger typing!

"Sowing the seeds" and leaving them to sprout is actually a fine metaphor for Plan A. Select the proper seeds, certainly; fend off vermin trying to steal the seeds, necessary; water as required, yes; pull weeds, sure! But one cannot do much else, and trying to FORCE the process will inevitably make it less likely to succeed.

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Actually, I have enough trouble understanding you without confusing metaphors.

I followed plan A not because of testimonials on the forum, but because it is what Dr. Harley instructed in SAA. It worked for us, rather famously, actually. Plan A is not an action of faith, but is part of a well-defined process to recover a marriage. I placed my trust on Dr. H's experience when I followed this path. It worked.

Trying to shift the validation of plan A from being based on Dr. Harley's experience to being based on forum anecdotes is really a strawman argument, because plan A is not based on individual experiences of posters to begin with. So, if you seek to question the efficacy of plan A, you need to go to directly to questioning the authority of Dr. Harley. That is what plan A is based on - the experience of this expert. It is not based on the collective experience of the rest of us.


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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
I predict I won't for weeks. That's what I prepared for anyway.

BINGO! No Expectations!

There is an expectation. The expectation and the goal is that she will be in love with him. If they can stick to this for about 8 weeks, he will start seeing a big difference. He is not doing this for altruistic reasons but to transform his marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I think I already refuted the "no expectations" comment before. That is a terribly discouraging thing to say to somebody, and Dr. Harley does not believe in it. Dr. Harley does believe in expectations in marriage! He encourages people to have expectations in marriage!

Meet emotional needs and avoid love busters - when your expectations aren't met, talk about and solve the problem together, rather than responding with demands, disrespect, or anger. That is incredibly nonintuitive. Most people's instincts point them towards demand, disrespect, and anger when there's a problem. Most TV shows and movies depict it as the proper way to solve problems. (How many TV shows episodes depicting marital difficulties show marital problems resolved when the husband or wife finally shames the spouse until they get the point and change? That's what I learned about marriage growing up - you have to get through to your mate by showing them how bad you feel. It doesn't work, though.)

I asked before if the "no expectations" phrase could be backed up from Dr. Harley. The response I got suggests that not everybody posting even CARES what Dr. Harley says.


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If they can stick to this for about 8 weeks, he will start seeing a big difference.

WILL? BIG? You're that certain, are you, as to extent and chronology? And as far as being in accord with Dr Harley's instructions and expectations, has he shown himself reckless enough to make that kind of guarantee? In point of fact, his direction is to Plan A until the LB$ approaches zero, then cut over to Plan B. Apparently that period of LB$ depletion typically takes those eight weeks, but not every WW's reform hews to that schedule, and some never get it.

Distracting oneself with thoughts of "Only 3.5 weeks to go", or somesuch, will make it more difficult for a BH to focus on EXECUTING the Plan A, as opposed to EVALUATING it.

Plant the seeds, take care of environmental factors, and have faith in the process.

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
In point of fact, his direction is to Plan A until the LB$ approaches zero, then cut over to Plan B.

No it isn't. You seem to be confusing the advice for dealing with an active affair with the advice for recovery. They are not the same.


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Markos hit it well: there's a difference between expectations and demands for someone to meet your expectations. It's the demand that is to be avoided.



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Here is something I am struggling with. I'm thinking ahead to our date tonight and conversation we might have. The problem is that pretty much all of the things that are weighing on my mind have to do with US. Yet none of that sounds like light friendly conversation. So I either come up with superficial stuff to talk about or I sit there quietly.

Last edited by FightTheFight; 09/17/13 02:22 PM.

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
If they can stick to this for about 8 weeks, he will start seeing a big difference.

WILL? BIG? You're that certain, are you, as to extent and chronology? And as far as being in accord with Dr Harley's instructions and expectations, has he shown himself reckless enough to make that kind of guarantee? In point of fact, his direction is to Plan A until the LB$ approaches zero, then cut over to Plan B. Apparently that period of LB$ depletion typically takes those eight weeks, but not every WW's reform hews to that schedule, and some never get it.

Distracting oneself with thoughts of "Only 3.5 weeks to go", or somesuch, will make it more difficult for a BH to focus on EXECUTING the Plan A, as opposed to EVALUATING it.

Plant the seeds, take care of environmental factors, and have faith in the process.

Yes actually, Dr Harley has said that it takes about 8 weeks to start seeing results. Isn't that wonderful? It really doesnt take that long to fall in love when couples are following his policies. I am confused how you feel that someone's love bank would be EMPTY after spending 20 hours per week meeting each others intimate emotional needs so I won't address that.

Plan B does not come into the equation here because there is no affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by FightTheFight
Here is something I am struggling with. I'm thinking ahead to our date tonight and conversation we might have. The problem is that pretty much all of the things that are weighing on my mind have to do with US. Yet none of that sounds like light friendly conversation. So I either come up with superficial stuff to talk about or I sit there quietly.

Talk about superficial fun stuff! How about duck dynasty, funny things going on at work, etc. what would you talk about if you were on a FIRST DATE with someone?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by FightTheFight
Here is something I am struggling with. I'm thinking ahead to our date tonight and conversation we might have. The problem is that pretty much all of the things that are weighing on my mind have to do with US. Yet none of that sounds like light friendly conversation. So I either come up with superficial stuff to talk about or I sit there quietly.

Talk about superficial fun stuff! How about duck dynasty, funny things going on at work, etc. what would you talk about if you were on a FIRST DATE with someone?

Yep. Keep it FUN!


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Originally Posted by FightTheFight
Here is something I am struggling with. I'm thinking ahead to our date tonight and conversation we might have. The problem is that pretty much all of the things that are weighing on my mind have to do with US. Yet none of that sounds like light friendly conversation. So I either come up with superficial stuff to talk about or I sit there quietly.

DON'T sit there quietly. Have you read the chapter in HNHN on conversation? Dr. Harley says that conversation plays a BIG part in falling in love. You need to talk.

Don't talk about things weighing on your mind. Keep it light and enjoyable. These light things are not superficial -- they are essential to filling her lovebank.

So, like I said before, investigate her as much as she will let you. Ask questions about her. Tell her about yourself. Keep it light. Treat it like it's your first date.


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I am confused how you feel that someone's love bank would be EMPTY after spending 20 hours per week meeting each others intimate emotional needs so I won't address that.

I think he is referring to the predicament where my wife has expressed that meeting my ENs is actually a LB withdrawal for her. I don't mean to try to make her look bad in any way, it's just what she has expressed to both Dr. H and myself. It's how she feels and I can respect that but it definitely complicates the issue (for me at least).


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Originally Posted by FightTheFight
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I am confused how you feel that someone's love bank would be EMPTY after spending 20 hours per week meeting each others intimate emotional needs so I won't address that.

I think he is referring to the predicament where my wife has expressed that meeting my ENs is actually a LB withdrawal for her. I don't mean to try to make her look bad in any way, it's just what she has expressed to both Dr. H and myself. It's how she feels and I can respect that but it definitely complicates the issue (for me at least).

FTF, she said that because she is detached and is in withdrawal. I am confused about why you think this is different from the other 99%? She does not want to meet your needs because she is NOT IN LOVE. The whole point of this exercise is to reverse that. Don't allow yourself to be discouraged by those who don't understand or know how this program works. Stick with Dr Harley, he has saved thousands of marriages using these concepts. Others here HAVE NOT.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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