NMUN, you may not find my experience to be very relevant. I wasn't a drug or booze addict per se. Rather, I was addicted to the cheap affirmation & attention that I allowed myself to get starting around 5 years ago, from woman who wasn't my wife.

Mind you, I wasn't raised that way. I grew up in a clean environment, and was taught right from wrong. I lived my life not on the wild side but as an upstanding family man, good dad, model worker, pillar of my church, all that good stuff. But I changed, and I convinced myself that I was in control of events, and that I could stop anytime, before it went too far. And I didn't stop, except for a spell of a few days here & there. But then I'd want another fix, and the other woman would offer, and I'd resume. Just like addicts don't stop, or when they do, they eventually relapse.

I guess you you can argue about whether an affair is an addiction. I cuold suggest you look up some of the literature on brain-chemistry impact of infatuation vs. the brain-chemistry impact of cocaine. Draw your own conclusions.

Anyway, so that's how it was for 2 & a half months... until her husband found out about us, which put me into a bind where I had to face the very real prospective consequence of losing everything that I deep-down knew was important -- including possibly my house, custody of my children, my money, my career, my self-respect, the respect of peers, colleagues, friends and family members, and most of all the love & respect of the love of the woman who was so great that I'd once I'd promised to be honest & faithful toward her forever. I was gnona lose all of that, and there I was, suddenly staring it straight in the face.

That was my rock-bottom, sir: Coming face-to-face with the worst of all possible consequences, all rolled into one.

Your wife hasn't hit it, and won't ever, because you keep giving her soft landings.

Your wife uses drugs, sometimes stops, but then restarts again. You say you don't think that's addiction. OK. I suppose you can make up whatever definition of "addiction" most suits whatever conclusion (and implicitly, whatever remedy) at which you're trying to arrive. And y'know, I could carve a 12x5x2-cubic-foot block of granite into a wedge-shape, haul it into the water and classify it as a "boat" (by my definition of a "boat"), but dude, it still ain't ever gonna float.

The truth is the truth, whether we see the merit in it or not.

By the way, none of the above is judgmental. But IMHO, the first step out of where you are is to be 100% honest with yourself about the circumstances in which you find yourself & those in which your spouse finds herself. Denying the gravity of what she's confronting is not the path to saving her.

I'm sorry to hear that (and I really am, because I wouldn't wish it on anyone). We can't change our pasts but we shouldn't repeat it for ourselves, especially when we should know better.

My plan b letter was my drawing a line in the sand.

My WS affair went underground.
My WS was and still is abusing drugs.
There are children involved.

I did not abandon my marriage, my WS did.

I am healing and so are my children.

Your marriage cannot be recovered while the wayward is active in their affair, even more so if they are using/abusing/or are addicted to drugs.

Like I said, you have no children, you wife is an active wayward, and is using/abusing/or is addicted to drugs. I do not see much to save here, and I am sorry.

Dr Harley says a failure to PoJA is relationship cancer.

Regardless of where she is on the addiction/user scale, you did not PoJA her drug use. That makes it an inconsiderate act. Each one is a paper cut to you. If you want to die a slow death from paper cuts, continue on as you are. That is what a non-PoJA marriage is like.

If she's not a full-on addict, then what's the problem with her quitting?

The best way for you to get a PoJA marriage is to insist on it and leave if you don't get it. If she says no, then it will always be this way and eventually you will split up anyway. Why not just manage it sensibly now?

Dr Harley says if a spouse claims they have control over the substance then you should ask them to stop. You should at that point then ask them to agree that just in case they fail and backslide into using they will then need to enter a rehab facility for the marriage to continue. Many people believe it's all fine and they can quit any time, so readily agree to this. Then later find out they can't do it.

Just in case she cant quit and stay off it, get an agreement in place now that she goes into rehab should that happen.

NMUN,

By your acceptance of your W's drug usage, and your minimizing the impact on both her thinking and decision making process, i wonder if that is possibly that you also enjoy sporadic recreational usage of mind altering substances.

Yes, i have significant experience with my W's relapse back to alcoholism, (which i construe as a mind altering product), and hundreds of acquaintances i know through nearly 20 years of myself belonging to AA and to a lesser degree, Alanon.

Even sporadic usage, especially when a actions done during the usage or contemplating usage does alter many other perceptions.

What is it that you want to know?

She shows all the signs of being unable to stop using, even sporadically and the emotional havoc you are experiencing is a direct result of her usage and your codependency.

LTL

I wouldn't argue this. It is plainly evident in her texting with OM.


I am not sure marching her right over to her (formerly helicopter parent) Mother's house while she is high on Cocaine a soft landing. Pretty sure that one messed up her high really bad.


I'd like to think the majority of that is her dreadful life choices, but it certainly doesn't help her frequently being in close proximity to a functioning drug addict (WW's best friend). A person to which I have a great deal of disdain for.


I am frightfully honest in person. To the point of being off-putting. It is painfully obvious what sort of situation I find my Marriage and myself in.

This matter requires a great deal of tact (to which I have very little) and maybe some subterfuge (a skill I have unintentionally learned by proxy) in dealing with WW's best (not-so) best friend. It must be done with subterfuge as WW's best friend has a not so nice fiancee. If you've ever watched Trainspotting, he's very much like the Character Begbie, only high and loaded with prison tattoos - you know, from prison.


Can you tell me a little more or is it too personal?

If you're really struggling, Dr Harley specialises in addictions and drug use. At one time he ran a number of centres and is well aware of the effect on marriage. He spoke about marijuana use on the radio recently actually.

Why don't you email the radio show? You'll get his professional advice on your problem for free and callers usually have a free book sent to them.

Link to said Email?

This friendship isn't PoJA'd either. Why wasn't she cut out of your lives as a condition for her recovery? Unless your wife starts living her life WITH you and making decisions you approve of instead of doing whatever she likes IN SPITE of you, nothing is going to change!




Well this makes no sense at all. You and your wife merely need to cut them out of your lives. If they don't like it tough. If they threaten you, call the police. Take control for heavens sake.

Oh no problem at all. I've never emailed them myself but I've just googled it and it's mbradio@marriagebuilders.com.

Her friend is a snake. A serpent descending from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, with soft words and a cold, cold heart. She is more socially refined in the ways of persuasion than I am.

Case in point: A male "acquaintance" of hers went to prison not that long ago for murder. Really nice people...


Thank you.


I'll tell you a secret about the RCMP: They are much better at investigating crimes than they are at preventing crimes.

The RCMP have a poor record for actually arresting criminals in Canada. If that tells you anything about how effective they are, period. I would not put my life, nor my personal health into the hands of the RCMP.

Well that's why the vows say 'forsaking all others'. Your wife doesn't need to agree that the friend is a snake, she simply has to agree to respect your feelings over a mere friendship.

Unless your wife stops making decisions in spite of your opinions, it will just keep getting worse.

I'd make it clear that unless this starts happening a separation is on the horizon.

Then I would start planning said separation.

NMUN~

I did not ask you IF you had talked to your wife about her drug use, rather I asked what her response was WHEN you talked to her about it. What did she say?

The reason you are finding that people here are telling you that you can't recover a marriage with an active drug user is that drug users don't have the ability to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) which says "Never do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse", and that is the cornerstone to the Marriage Builders program. It's obvious that you are not enthusiastic about her drug use, much less the things she does when she is using.

Please read this link regarding alcoholic spouses by Dr. Harley. What to do with an Alcoholic Spouse I realize that you have not said that your wife is an alcoholic, but please read what Dr. Harley has to say in all of the links there, and I believe you will see that what he is saying applies to your situation as well.

Also please read this article by Dr. Harley: What's Wrong With Unconditional Love? Part I

and this one: What's Wrong With Unconditional Love? Part II

After you finish reading those I would be interested to hear your thoughts.

Mrs. W

P.S. Judgment is not a bad thing. People here are exercising good judgment regarding your situation based upon what they have learned from Dr. Harley's professional advice and wisdom about how to have a good marriage.

This has more to do with what the crown will actually prosecute than anything else - it is notoriously difficult to prosecute in general, especially when you are dealing with shady crowds whose credibility might be in question (such as your wife and her "friends").

If these people are as you say (and I'm sure of it), then I would demand rehabilitation and no contact with these people - for life - as a REQUIREMENT to stay married. Anything else is just going to slump this marriage along for another few months or years until it blows up again. She cannot remain with this crowd. Might involve relocation.

I know that is extreme, but she has put herself in extreme circumstances. You will need to consider the possibility that your wife has doomed the marriage and in order to save it, you might have to say goodbye yourself.

This person MUST be cut from your lives.

NMUN, I cut my "best friend" out of our lives after my affair. She and I had been "best friends" since we were 8 & 10 years old. The reason I cut her out was that she encouraged me in my self-destructive and marital-destructive behavior. She aided and abetted my affair. She also started having affairs of her own which finally led to the destruction of her marriage and family. My husband and I supported and helped her husband in trying to bust up her affairs, but she was hell-bent on destroying it all and she did. Based on our contact with her ex-husband we know that she married one of the losers who had been in and out of jail -- he ended up abusing her which landed him back in jail. Ultimately she divorced him as well. Her 2 little boys had their family destroyed for that mess. Very sad.

My marriage and family are far more important to me than any so called "friend". The friends I have in my life today are ones that are friends to my marriage and family -- those are true friends.

If your wife isn't willing to sever her ties with this "friend" -- if she is not willing to put you and your marriage first, then you must take action.

Mrs. W

My WW lived with her POSOM; an addict who blazed up 3-5 times a day at least. He introduced her to the stuff in such a romantic way, with a kiss. Later she began to blot out the "pain" from "our troubles" with the stuff. She freely admits to a span of time in which she was either drunk, stoned or both whenever the kids weren't around. (Like I believe that). My kids remember mommy's Mario mushroom (glass pipe) getting broken by POS's dog. She even "tried" a couple of other things. During her high times, she experimented with "other activities" as well. The things I've heard make me sick to my stomach. She had never touched anything worse than tylenol before.

But if you believe you're wife is just casual and will stay that way, you're deluding yourself. She needs to cut the drugs and the drug addicts out of her life permanently or you walk, honestly there's no other way it will get worse.

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

It is not too personal, but it is convoluted. I need to do a cliff notes version at some point.

As challenging as it is to attempt recovery marital recovery, it is even more so when drugs or alcohol are added in. The marriage cannot recover at all. Recovery or Divorce will entirely be your decision. Both will be considered a success. With no children in the marriage, your young age, her line of employment, her affair, again, I do not see much to save. If there were children, of course, it would be different.

In my stitch, the marriage was not salvageable. My plan b, the children's and my own recovery, and soon be finalized divorce is a victory. Certainly not the outcome I had hoped or worked for initially in the days after DD, but it is the healthiest for myself and children.

Please listen to this clip.
Radio Clip on Drug Addiction

Radio Clip on Drug Addiction
Segment #2
Segment #3