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jay, do you own the book Surviving an Affair, by Dr. Harley? Most of your situation is addressed by the principles Dr. Harley puts in that book.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Yes, the book markos mentioned is essential.

As far as the legal ramifications of the teenager situation, that is something a qualified lawyer in your state will know more about than anyone on a forum.

Dr. Harley has stated that marriages that start as affairs (and according to MB that means married at all...even if the divorce is in process because it is not yet final, ergo still married) are difficult, and he has some not very hopeful statistics about them. HOWEVER, Dr. Harley, the founder of Marriage Builders does take on people whose marriages began this way as clients and does seek to help them in reconciliation. So I would say following the principles that Dr. Harley set forth would be a very good things for you, seeing as he himself has used them WITH couples whose marriages began the ways yours did.

I also encourage you to write him.

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Originally Posted By: mozilla

Dr. Harley has stated that marriages that start as affairs (and according to MB that means married at all...even if the divorce is in process because it is not yet final, ergo still married) are difficult, and he has some not very hopeful statistics about them.


The statistics that he cites are related to what he classifies as "affairages." An affairage is a relationship that broke up a marriage. Those relationships are typically doomed because they are based on deceit and thoughtlessness and characterized by the fog. Those traits are not present, though, in affairs that began after a marriage has broken up but before the divorce was final. I asked him about this specifically because my current relationship started AFTER my XH left me for an OW and filed for divorce, but did not break up my marriage. It is still an affair because I was not technically divorced, but does not fall in the same category as an affairage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: mozilla
As far as the legal ramifications of the teenager situation, that is something a qualified lawyer in your state will know more about than anyone on a forum.
If the object is to avoid the consequences, then a lawyer is a good resource. If the object is to be safe around kids, then that's a different story.

Saying that the attention could have come from anybody in no way negates the fact that it came from a young teenager. Normal men do not seek or accept the attention of young teenagers. Denying and minimizing the significance of this fact only makes the situation more dangerous. Total accountability should be a fact of life from now on. Jay needs to think of ways that he can demonstrate such accountability. That would start by accepting the seriousness of the problem and accepting the fact that he shouldn't be trusted around kids anymore.


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You need to identify the root of your problem, why you seek attention from somebody so young? Your mistake of looking outside of marrige after the birth of a child is something I share with you. In my case my wife later had an affair, and only after this is she able to begin to forgive me for looking at escort sites. Your sitaution is more complicated due to the legal issues and the overal humilation your wife probably feels.

When you understand the root of the problem, you might have a chance to win her back, if she finds she is inclined to consider it, but you have to respect her wishes. Divorce is within her rights under the circumstances.

Do pay attention to being a good father. You can win points back with her by showing dedication as a dad. It might not be enough to win her back, but it won't hurt. Anyway it is essential for your son to have you in his life.

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Originally Posted By: LonelyMan
You need to identify the root of your problem, why you seek attention from somebody so young?


NO, he needs to make it IMPOSSIBLE, immediately, to protect the young! If he wants to spend time afterward analyzing why he felt that way, that'll be fine, but it won't really help his marriage or his life. But there's no time for that - there are innocents that need to be protected.

SOLUTION: practice radical transparency in your life and don't spend time alone or communicate privately with people of the opposite sex that you are not married to.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted By: LonelyMan
When you understand the root of the problem


The root of the problem is poor boundaries.

Almost any man would enjoy attention from an attractive looking young woman. That's why every man should avoid those situations!

I don't spend time analyzing why I would enjoy attention from teenage girls. Instead I avoid spending time with teenage girls!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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Originally Posted By: LonelyMan
You need to identify the root of your problem, why you seek attention from somebody so young?

...

When you understand the root of the problem,


I just want to emphasize that this "identify the reason you act this way" approach is something Dr. Harley recommends against.

Enjoying female attention and flirtation is something most men would enjoy. Dr. Harley has stated that it is normal for many men to simply want to go to bed with every woman they see! It's normal for men to like looking at women, talking with women, sleeping with women. That's a perfectly normal desire. And a typical 16 year old girl is as enjoyable and normal a target as any - only much more vulnerable.

There's nothing in the world abnormal about a man craving sexual experiences and fantasy with other women.

There's a million reasons NOT to do so, though.

#1 - the absolute most important reason: it would cause unbearable pain to your wife!
#2 - another wonderful reason not to do this: the unbearable pain it will cause your children
* the pain it will cause your victim, their family
* legal consequences
* religious/spiritual consequences

I could go on and on adding to this list.

Dr. Harley has stated that he himself would certainly enjoy things like polygamy or looking at porn - but that the main reason he doesn't do such things is because it would be offensive to his wife, Joyce.

There's no need to go get psychoanalyzed. The need is to learn new behaviors that prevent this kind of thing from happening. Don't have teenage girl friends! Keep your life open and transparent and accountable!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2311122#Post2311122

Originally Posted By: Dr. Harley
An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.


That about says it all. There are some conditions under which anyone can be trusted - there are some conditions under which nobody can be trusted! Fraternizing alone with 16 year old girls is a condition under which no man should be trusted. I would encourage my wife to NEVER trust me to carry on private conversations with teenage girls at church. It's incredibly dangerous.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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I don't believe Dr. Harley intended his principles to be used for the purpose of helping a pedophile restore his relationship with the mother of a minor girl. You do not increase a child's risk of being sexually abused in order to restore a marriage. A pedophile cannot be married to a woman who has a minor daughter. Period.

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When a betrayed husband comes on here, if he has young daughters, at least one person would pipe up and say "Drive this man away! He has poor boundaries, keep him away from your daughters!"

Well, here he is. Here is OM.

OP, it is my own opinion that you should allow this marriage to end. You have committed a serious offence and quite frankly, don't seem to realize the gravity of it. You are a danger to your step-daughters or your step-daughter's friends.

I would recommend speaking with the Harleys personally, but I don't personally feel you are in any condition to be married to ANYONE let alone a woman with young daughters.

I hope to God that you are not still in teacher training or looking for a similar career. You need professional help.

Your wife seeking out other men is WRONG, do not think this excuses it, but this marriage should be over - IMO.

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Originally Posted By: JessicaClaire
I don't believe Dr. Harley intended his principles to be used for the purpose of helping a pedophile restore his relationship with the mother of a minor girl. You do not increase a child's risk of being sexually abused in order to restore a marriage. A pedophile cannot be married to a woman who has a minor daughter. Period.


There are cases where if a woman has wanted to stay with such a man Dr. Harley has had them reconcile but stay separated until the minor children are grown and out of the house.

I certainly wouldn't recommend the wife try it in this case until Jay has done a lot of work. I would certainly recommend that Jay TRY to do that work. He has a minor child with this woman.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+7%3A36-50&version=NIV


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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Originally Posted By: alis
When a betrayed husband comes on here, if he has young daughters, at least one person would pipe up and say "Drive this man away! He has poor boundaries, keep him away from your daughters!"

Well, here he is. Here is OM.

OP, it is my own opinion that you should allow this marriage to end. You have committed a serious offence and quite frankly, don't seem to realize the gravity of it. You are a danger to your step-daughters or your step-daughter's friends.

I would recommend speaking with the Harleys personally, but I don't personally feel you are in any condition to be married to ANYONE let alone a woman with young daughters.

I hope to God that you are not still in teacher training or looking for a similar career. You need professional help.

Your wife seeking out other men is WRONG, do not think this excuses it, but this marriage should be over - IMO.


Thanks alis, I had drafted a post earlier to this man and thought "what am I doing?" As a father of a teenage DD I get chills thinking about what would happen if my WW would have left me and taken DD to live with creepy, sleezy POSOM. It's already a fact that step-children are more likely to be abused by step-parents, but with his history, BW should RUN.

You know, you have a chance at happiness, following professional help. But I get the sense that it only stopped at kissing by sheer dumb luck. I wouldn't trust you near my DD. No sir.

Make this your wake-up-call, do your BW a favor and agree to an uncontested D, get help, and THEN find an understanding woman with no young children.


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Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: JessicaClaire
I don't believe Dr. Harley intended his principles to be used for the purpose of helping a pedophile restore his relationship with the mother of a minor girl. You do not increase a child's risk of being sexually abused in order to restore a marriage. A pedophile cannot be married to a woman who has a minor daughter. Period.


There are cases where if a woman has wanted to stay with such a man Dr. Harley has had them reconcile but stay separated until the minor children are grown and out of the house.

I certainly wouldn't recommend the wife try it in this case until Jay has done a lot of work. I would certainly recommend that Jay TRY to do that work. He has a minor child with this woman.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+7%3A36-50&version=NIV


Also, there are more people reading this thread than just the OP. Already at least one FWH has posted and shown some a couple of risky ideas - this was a great chance for him (and others) to learn what Marriage Builders says about that.

I have no idea how far the OP could go if he picks up the information here and runs with it - but I know that if he doesn't, he will surely wind up in a worse place in life than if he tries. As I said, there are other innocents at risk that this man needs to learn to protect from himself.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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I believe the OP should contact the Harley's directly for the best advice honestly. He is the trained professional and this is not as cut and dry as some of you are trying to make it seem.

CHILDREN ARE INVOLVED! BW has a daughter of her own and the couple has a child together. You guys are being a bit quick to discount that.

Yes, Jay you have issues you need to remedy and work your tail off at correcting but if I was you I would contact Dr. Harley who is an experienced professional in dealing with infidelity and other psychiatric issues.

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Originally Posted By: txstunnedman
I believe the OP should contact the Harley's directly for the best advice honestly. He is the trained professional and this is not as cut and dry as some of you are trying to make it seem.


I'm not sure who is making it cut and dry.

Quote:
CHILDREN ARE INVOLVED! BW has a daughter of her own and the couple has a child together. You guys are being a bit quick to discount that.


Maybe I missed something but I'm not sure who is discounting that.

This guy needs to live under transparency and radical honesty for the rest of his life.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: txstunnedman
I believe the OP should contact the Harley's directly for the best advice honestly. He is the trained professional and this is not as cut and dry as some of you are trying to make it seem.


I'm not sure who is making it cut and dry.

Quote:
CHILDREN ARE INVOLVED! BW has a daughter of her own and the couple has a child together. You guys are being a bit quick to discount that.


Maybe I missed something but I'm not sure who is discounting that.

This guy needs to live under transparency and radical honesty for the rest of his life.


I understand that, what I'm talking about is the people saying he should not try to repair the marriage and should not be in the relationship because of the teenage stepdaughter. He has his own child in the relationship as well and just telling him to leave and abandon the relationship is bad advice IMO. Children need two stabile parents in a home, now he needs to become a stable parent and maybe being separated until he fits the bill would be a good idea but telling him to pack up and jump ship and leave his own child is ridiculous.

And I agree that regardless if its in this relationship or a new one, EP's based on MB concepts should be definitely implemented along with Radical Honesty. He must protect his spouse as well as himself from infidelity.

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Originally Posted By: txstunnedman
Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: txstunnedman
I believe the OP should contact the Harley's directly for the best advice honestly. He is the trained professional and this is not as cut and dry as some of you are trying to make it seem.


I'm not sure who is making it cut and dry.

Quote:
CHILDREN ARE INVOLVED! BW has a daughter of her own and the couple has a child together. You guys are being a bit quick to discount that.


Maybe I missed something but I'm not sure who is discounting that.

This guy needs to live under transparency and radical honesty for the rest of his life.


I understand that, what I'm talking about is the people saying he should not try to repair the marriage and should not be in the relationship because of the teenage stepdaughter. He has his own child in the relationship as well and just telling him to leave and abandon the relationship is bad advice IMO. Children need two stabile parents in a home, now he needs to become a stable parent and maybe being separated until he fits the bill would be a good idea but telling him to pack up and jump ship and leave his own child is ridiculous.


Oh - thanks for clarifying, TX - I totally misread you!

Don't mind me, I think I'm illiterate today.... crazy


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