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indiegirl #2759907 10/14/13 09:50 AM
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I suspect if the bad techniques end, on a consistent basis, much of the problem will be solved.

He may still be thinking it out. But he may be willing to say, let me think about it and get back to you by some specific time.

Seems there are two components to this.

1. His thinking how to respond.
2. His fear of a bad reaction.

Remove #2, and it will be easier for him to return after he's thought about it. Why? Because his thoughts will NOT be filled with images of a bad reaction by your.

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Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
I am telling you what you sound like from this perspective.

You mean you are telling me from your perspective.


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What I see is someone fighting against those who are giving you a third party view of what they see.

Not fighting just trying to understand and learn in a safe atmosphere.

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You can put anyone you don't agree with on ignore and continue on your path.


Thanks I did not know that, and even though I don't agree with it does not mean that I don't need to hear it. But there are better more tactful was of stating things.


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People, for the most part, act in what they believe is their best interest. Right or wrong, your husband has decided it is in his best interest to keep his mouth shut and wait until the perceived storm blows over.

It may not be in the best interest of your marriage. But then that just means there are two who are willing to act in their own self interests, often at the expense of their spouse.
I guess this would be where our takers are in control?

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I see you complain about things he does, but then give yourself a pass when you are doing the same or very similar things.
Give me an example, in a respectful manner?

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If you've really had 12 years of nothing as you put it. Then what are you trying to save? I don't ask that in a flippant fashion. I really want to know.


Because in the beginning when we met, before we got married it was not that way, and for the first year or so it was not that way either. So I guess the 12 years was a wrong statement, considering we have been together 14 years and married 12 1/2 of those. I guess just like everyone else some how we were meeting each others needs, with out even know it. Plus I still some how even with out my needs being met, Love him or the him that I just to know. I don't want to picture my life with out him, but at the same time I don't want to continue to be so unhappy and lonely. Maybe those are not good reasons for wanting to save it? I don't know they are the only ones I have right now.

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Imagine hearing that from his side. For 12 years, she claims I've done nothing. If that's the case, it's hopeless, why try.
This is possible the best statement you have said to me.

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I'm just asking you to look at your behaviors and see if any of them could be sabotaging any possible recovery.
I am sure that some are. Seems we humans are pretty good at sabotaging ourselves.

Oh and I am really not exaggerating about the needs being met, or at least I don't feel like I am. Like I stated in the beginning they had to be, right?


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I'm just a mirror, imperfectly reflecting what I see. I may be wrong. I certainly don't have all the details. And hopefully, my reflections are helpful or at least get you thinking about possible changes you can make in your approach.

I don't know what it's like to be the unfaithful spouse. But I can share from my vast experience and mistakes I made in hopes that others will not make the same errors as I did.

Maybe just a little less harsh would be nice, but yes they have got me thinking a lot. Just to be clear so that there is not misunderstanding, as far as I know he has never been unfaithful to me at least sexually. Yes, he was making plans or trying to make plans to meet with this women. But after talking to him about it, he states that it was a previous supervisor and that the only reason he was going to stop and see her at her place of work was to get some information he needed for his supervisor here at this place of work. Felt that I should put that out there that way I am not accused of making false statements or trying to make him look worse.


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indiegirl #2759914 10/14/13 10:10 AM
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Can we get an agreement from you that you should stop using AOs right now so you can progress?

Yes, if it is safe to say when I feel that the taker is taking hold, that it is ok for me to redirect myself and attention to something else until I gain control again and learn to shut the taker down before it does take hold?




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Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
I suspect if the bad techniques end, on a consistent basis, much of the problem will be solved.

He may still be thinking it out. But he may be willing to say, let me think about it and get back to you by some specific time.

Is it ok to ask, that with the bad techniques ended, and there are things that he has shared or told me about that is upsetting or hurtful, what would be a proper response?

I guess I really don't know.


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skyrim #2760028 10/14/13 03:46 PM
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with the bad techniques ended, and there are things that he has shared or told me about that is upsetting or hurtful, what would be a proper response?

The upsetting stuff will usually fall into a category - DJ, SD, AO, AH. Have a sheet for each and write it down all week. Be calm, knowing that your H is going to earn your trust back, that this is temporary short-term stuff. Don't worry, if it doesn't change it's going to get obvious really quickly. The at the set time for the week you share the lists. Do you have the LB books? There are end-of the chapter exercises for each. There's probably even enough here on the site to address the stuff.

Just don't let it ruin your week, life is too short. You just have a short last stretch here before things change in an obvious way or not.


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Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
The upsetting stuff will usually fall into a category - DJ, SD, AO, AH. Have a sheet for each and write it down all week. Be calm, knowing that your H is going to earn your trust back, that this is temporary short-term stuff. Don't worry, if it doesn't change it's going to get obvious really quickly. The at the set time for the week you share the lists. Do you have the LB books? There are end-of the chapter exercises for each. There's probably even enough here on the site to address the stuff.

Just don't let it ruin your week, life is too short. You just have a short last stretch here before things change in an obvious way or not.



Yes we do have the LB's book and we have been reading through it and we have bought the HN HN's book and I just ordered last night the 5 steps to romantic love work book.

Thanks for the encouragement. I will start the list today.


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skyrim #2760033 10/14/13 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by skyrim
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Can we get an agreement from you that you should stop using AOs right now so you can progress?

Yes, if it is safe to say when I feel that the taker is taking hold, that it is ok for me to redirect myself and attention to something else until I gain control again and learn to shut the taker down before it does take hold?


No if. Just do.,

If you can't control yourself because of whatever reason, excuse yourself until you CAN.

Wonder why your husband "shuts down?"


Because he is managing his emotional response.



You have 1 option when a conversation becomes unpleasant; stop having the conversation.

Either a) change the subject, or b) take some time out to calm down, then come back... and change the subject.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
No if. Just do.,

Sorry I did not notice the if when I was typing, it is a type-o that sentence should read, "Yes, is it safe to say......" Not the "Yes, if it is safe to say..." I guess I need to proof read what I am about to post.

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If you can't control yourself because of whatever reason, excuse yourself until you CAN.

You have 1 option when a conversation becomes unpleasant; stop having the conversation.

Either a) change the subject, or b) take some time out to calm down, then come back... and change the subject.

Understood


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skyrim #2760113 10/15/13 09:17 AM
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Skyrim, a couple of more thoughts:

1) A good marriage doesn't need boundaries - when you two are in State of Intimacy he naturally won't do the things that upset you once he's aware of them. This is where noting it down helps. And it will get so infrequent that you'll be able to mention it naturally in the moment and then go back to your day.

2) It's going to feel so awesome when you can catch the anger before it rises, write the stuff down before it gets bad. I yelled at my kids for years and it always left me feeling ragged and awful because I don't want to be like that. I haven't raised my voice now in a few years and I like my life so much better. I don't remember if you're a yeller or how your anger affects you but it was so awesome to not have to go to that place to get to where I want my life to be.


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By the way I know what AO, DJ, SD are but what does AH stand for?

Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
I don't remember if you're a yeller or how your anger affects you but it was so awesome to not have to go to that place to get to where I want my life to be.

My anger comes out in crudeness and yes if it is let go enough then snapping and yelling. You are right you don't feel good afterwards, it just leaves you feeling even worse about everything and still nothing is solve and more has been added because of it.

So with writing these things down. Am I suppose to write what I am getting frustrated about, and with the other am I suppose to write what DJ's I am thinking or want to say. But of course not saying them, or is that for me to write down when he has done those to me?


Guess I am just not sure exactly what I am suppose to be writing and are we both suppose to be doing this or is this exercise just for me to help me gain perspective?


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skyrim #2760200 10/15/13 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by skyrim
By the way I know what AO, DJ, SD are but what does AH stand for?

Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
I don't remember if you're a yeller or how your anger affects you but it was so awesome to not have to go to that place to get to where I want my life to be.

My anger comes out in crudeness and yes if it is let go enough then snapping and yelling. You are right you don't feel good afterwards, it just leaves you feeling even worse about everything and still nothing is solve and more has been added because of it.

So with writing these things down. Am I suppose to write what I am getting frustrated about, and with the other am I suppose to write what DJ's I am thinking or want to say. But of course not saying them, or is that for me to write down when he has done those to me?


Guess I am just not sure exactly what I am suppose to be writing and are we both suppose to be doing this or is this exercise just for me to help me gain perspective?

The writing that should be done is each of you should keep a written weekly worksheet where you record things your spouse did or said that you found demanding, disrespectful, or angry. Then you should exchange worksheets each week.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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skyrim #2760202 10/15/13 03:16 PM
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AH is annoying habits. I remember reading in the article that you pick one to eliminate, then once that is gone 2 and 3. Then by then the rest of the list doesn't bother you the same way any more. But if something does then that can be eliminated too.

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You are right you don't feel good afterwards, it just leaves you feeling even worse about everything and still nothing is solve and more has been added because of it.

Yes then there is this nasty thing to rehash, too, that no one wants to talk about. Much better to just nip it in the bud before it gets to that point!

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Am I suppose to write what I am getting frustrated about, and with the other am I suppose to write what DJ's I am thinking or want to say. But of course not saying them, or is that for me to write down when he has done those to me?

Write what is frustrating to you. For example when you hear him DJ put it on the DJ page. And yes I think it's both of you do this. He writes down the DJs he hears from you. And then at the end of the week you look at them. You have the book, sounds simpler like for example if you both are working on the DJ chapter write down one other's DJs to go over at the end of the week. So you don't have to keep track of everything.

What LB are you two working on eliminating this week?



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Thanks markos for clarifying!


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Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
What LB are you two working on eliminating this week?

Mine is AO's right now and learning how to not make demands,and making sure that the request are respectful. I did not realize how many demands that we actually make of each other, until now with the information we are learning here.

Last edited by skyrim; 10/16/13 03:37 PM.

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Originally Posted by skyrim
Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
What LB are you two working on eliminating this week?

Mine is AO's right now and learning how to not make demands,and making sure that the request are respectful. I did not realize how many demands that we actually make of each other, until now with the information we are learning here.
Are you in an anger management program?


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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Are you in an anger management program?

No, but I have looked into what is offered over here where we are stationed. Not many options unless you can speak the native language, which I can not. However there is this program they offer on base, it is through Military life consultants, I have place a call to them and waiting on their return call.


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skyrim #2760452 10/17/13 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by skyrim
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Are you in an anger management program?

No, but I have looked into what is offered over here where we are stationed. Not many options unless you can speak the native language, which I can not. However there is this program they offer on base, it is through Military life consultants, I have place a call to them and waiting on their return call.

Good job on getting help.

I have an anger problem also. I also took anger management.

What helped me more than anything was Love Busters and Dr. Harley's anger management 101 and talking to Dr. Harley.

Have you read Love Busters? Listened to Dr. Harley's anger management 101? Have you written Dr. Harley?

What really got through to me was when Dr. Harley said no one makes you lose your anger, you control your own anger.


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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you read Love Busters? Listened to Dr. Harley's anger management 101? Have you written Dr. Harley?

What really got through to me was when Dr. Harley said no one makes you lose your anger, you control your own anger.

I have been reading Love Busters, and I did listen to Dr. Harley's andger management 101. I have not written him about my anger though, I have written him about other things.

I think after someone had state that anger is a choice, and someone also said how they feel afterwards and that they did not want to do that to any one including their kids. Then someone pointed out how would I feel if I were on the receiving end. I think it finally hit me and I started thinking about it, and I would not want to be the receiver, so then why would I want to be doing it. So I have been trying to make sure that it does not happen. My husband even said he has notice a difference and that he really appreciates me try. I believe that is a big step in the right direction.


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skyrim #2760709 10/18/13 03:39 AM
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That's fantastic Sky; remember his assessment is the most accurate with this particular issue.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

indiegirl #2760742 10/18/13 07:08 AM
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Good for you skyrim for making the change. One of these days, I'm hoping it's today, you're going to feel your confidence return that you know you can protect yourself and your family from your anger, and it's gonna feel awesome!

And I'm hoping that contagious enthusiasm and confidence will spill over to your H. He totally has everything he needs to protect him and your family from his stuff, too!


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