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#2764050 11/02/13 06:38 PM
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Hi! Apologies in advance for a quite lengthy post but I guess all the details are relevant. I am going through a really rough time in my marriage at the moment and would really appreciate some advice or even thoughts. I am 29 years old and have been with my wife for 8 years (married 2). We also have three kids together, aged 1, 3 and 5. We have had some problems in our marriage in the past but have always managed to resolve them and move forward. However this time I am feeling like it could be the end. It all started about a month ago. We had been planning on taking our family to the beach and stay with my own parents. However my son needed to get his tonsils out that same week, so I decided I would take my two daughters to the beach for a few nights, whilst my wife stayed home and looked after our son. On the last night I was there she messaged me during the day and said she was catching up with an old high school friend(lets call him Bill) for a quick couple of drinks. She had not seen or had any contact with him for at least 6 years prior, but had recently became friends with him on facebook. I'll admit I got angry at her for organising this whilst I was out of town, and I am a little old fashioned when it comes to her haivng close male friends. The next day I returned home and found out she had gone out drinking with him until midnight. I felt like I had been betrayed in some sense. She didn't understand where I was coming from and told me I was being controlling. I told her I wasn't comfortable with her catching up with him for drinks just on their own like that and she reluctantly agreed. Things settled down for a few days and then she told me she was planning on catching up with him again (only a week later) but was taking her sister this time. I got quite angry that she had organised to see him only a week after we had a big fight over it and how that made me feel. She didn't end up going but cracked it with me and went and stayed at her mums house. We spoke about what we were going to do and she told me I was overreacting and paranoid. She also said she felt like I wasn't letting her be herself and she needed more freedom and space. Anyways we reached a compromise about what I would be comfortable with. One thing I said was that I wanted her to wait a few weeks before she caught up with him again and she agreed to that. One week later I found a text message on her phone inviting him out for drinks with her and her sister. I confronted her about it as I thought it was a bit rough that she only waited a week. She didn't understand where I was coming from and just told me I was being crazy. She ended up catching up with him for drinks last weekend even though I wasn't happy about it. She also caught up with him at a halloween party last night whilst I was out of town at a bucks party. During the last few weeks of this happening I have also caught her out telling 'half truths' as she puts it, about her contact with him. This last few weeks she has been really distant from me and said she is thinking about leaving me. I am trying hard to stay sane at the moment. I have approached her about and she insists that I am just being crazy and controlling. I am not sure if I am just being crazy or something is going on here. Any advice would be great!

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Originally Posted By: domedelay
Hi! Apologies in advance for a quite lengthy post but I guess all the details are relevant. I am going through a really rough time in my marriage at the moment and would really appreciate some advice or even thoughts.

I am 29 years old and have been with my wife for 8 years (married 2). We also have three kids together, aged 1, 3 and 5.

We have had some problems in our marriage in the past but have always managed to resolve them and move forward. However this time I am feeling like it could be the end.

It all started about a month ago. We had been planning on taking our family to the beach and stay with my own parents. However my son needed to get his tonsils out that same week, so I decided I would take my two daughters to the beach for a few nights, whilst my wife stayed home and looked after our son.

On the last night I was there she messaged me during the day and said she was catching up with an old high school friend(lets call him Bill) for a quick couple of drinks. She had not seen or had any contact with him for at least 6 years prior, but had recently became friends with him on facebook. I'll admit I got angry at her for organising this whilst I was out of town, and I am a little old fashioned when it comes to her haivng close male friends.

The next day I returned home and found out she had gone out drinking with him until midnight. I felt like I had been betrayed in some sense. She didn't understand where I was coming from and told me I was being controlling. I told her I wasn't comfortable with her catching up with him for drinks just on their own like that and she reluctantly agreed.

Things settled down for a few days and then she told me she was planning on catching up with him again (only a week later) but was taking her sister this time. I got quite angry that she had organised to see him only a week after we had a big fight over it and how that made me feel. She didn't end up going but cracked it with me and went and stayed at her mums house.

We spoke about what we were going to do and she told me I was overreacting and paranoid. She also said she felt like I wasn't letting her be herself and she needed more freedom and space. Anyways we reached a compromise about what I would be comfortable with.

One thing I said was that I wanted her to wait a few weeks before she caught up with him again and she agreed to that. One week later I found a text message on her phone inviting him out for drinks with her and her sister. I confronted her about it as I thought it was a bit rough that she only waited a week. She didn't understand where I was coming from and just told me I was being crazy.

She ended up catching up with him for drinks last weekend even though I wasn't happy about it. She also caught up with him at a halloween party last night whilst I was out of town at a bucks party.

During the last few weeks of this happening I have also caught her out telling 'half truths' as she puts it, about her contact with him. This last few weeks she has been really distant from me and said she is thinking about leaving me. I am trying hard to stay sane at the moment. I have approached her about and she insists that I am just being crazy and controlling. I am not sure if I am just being crazy or something is going on here. Any advice would be great!


I'm sorry to say that it sounds like your wife is having an A with this person. There are lots of red flags here: her insistence on meeting up with this person in spite of your (rightful) discomfort with the thought of your wife going out with a man not her husband or brother. That she wants "space" is also a red flag. Your wife wants her space so she can carry on an affair with her old HS friend.

You will need to snoop quietly and get solid evidence - enough to convince a jury. Don't let on what you are doing and don't let her know about this website. Let us know what you find. When you have the goods, the next step is exposure. We will help you with the steps.

Meanwhile, stop getting angry with you wife. You will need to eliminate ALL your love busters and be a wonderful husband to her. Show you that you are all she wants and needs. This is called Plan A.

While you are in Plan A, insist that she stop going out with this person, that her behavior is a threat to the marriage.

Your very real discomfort with her independent behavior is not controlling, by the way. If you were commanding her to DO things, that's controlling. However, asking your spouse to NOT go out with a member of the opposite sex is not controlling.

You are her best choice, because you are the father of her children. It's very unlikely that this guy she is meeting up with is going to want to help her raise her children.


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Thanks for your advice! Although I hate looking through her phone I have been doing it a bit the last couple of weeks.I haven't found anything that would suggest she is having an affair. However on one occasion she did delete some messages she had sent to him, but the messages weren't anything bad. When I asked her about it she said she did it to avoid any conflict. She also claimed the reason she lied about some things was to also avoid conflict. She hasn't lied about meeting up with him (as far as I know), only really about what she had said to him in text messages. For example she invited him to the Halloween party but denied it when I asked her.
My personal opinion at the moment is she is caught up in an emotional affair and is either in denial or just not telling me. And this has made her wonder what else is out there. I have asked her if she had any feelings for him and she said no. She has also said that her leaving has nothing to do with him and its because things 'have been [censored]' between us for a while.
She knows I am suspicious/paranoid that she is having an emotional/physical affair so I guess that makes it hard for me to find any 'evidence' of anything if anything is even going on.

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I have also discovered she was looking at rental properties the last 2 days and she says she is just looking at prices. This has been really hard for me to deal with. At the moment we have agreed to keep living together for another few weeks and to try marriage counseling.

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Have you called the guy to let him know that you are not comfortable with him talking to to your wife?


Husband (me) 39
Wife 36
Daughter 21
Daughter 19
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Daughter 10
Son 8 (autistic)

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DD - I'd get and read Harley's book "surviving an affair" ASAP. It sounds like your wife is very likely under the influence of an affair. While she is under its influence she will not be thinking or acting rationally.

There is a great danger for both of you to do incredible damage to your relationship during this crisis. If you both follow your emotional instincts your marriage may not survive.

Harley's approach to marriage building, including (but not limited to) when there is an affair going on, is proven to help marriages survive what you're going through. Relying on your own natural reactions will probably make things worse.

I'll summarize harley's approach as I understand it

1) Do whatever you can to separate the affair partners. Be firm but do not insult or use anger. This will only make things worse.

2) Once the affair is over, commit understanding and meeting your wife's emotional needs with the goal of restoring her romantic love for you.

These are the basics. Spend some time reading Harley's website while you wait for the book. You are in the right place.

Last edited by BWS71; 11/02/13 09:48 PM.
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Emotional affairs are every bit as dangerous to marriage as a physical affair.

Don't ask your wife about her affair or her feelings with this guy; waywards always lie, I'm sorry to say. She plans to keep this secret. If she knows you are on to her, she will just go deeper underground.

Marriage counselors have no idea how to handle infidelity. Most of them do not understand the addictive nature of an affair. Please avoid marriage counseling, unless they are very familiar with and use Marriage Builder principles, especially in the area of infidelity. Most MC will be destructive to your marriage at this point. Your wife will lie about her feelings about this guy to the counselor.

Please do not feel badly about snooping. Married couples should have nothing secretive between them. You have every right to know what your wife is doing.

Please notify the moderators and ask them to move your thread to Surviving an Affair. You will get a great deal of help there for your situation. For now, please read the top thread of the SAA forum --- > Here

Many people here have been through what you are now going through. You will get not only support but a plan to help you bust up the affair and with your marriage. Make sure you take care of your health. Keep calm; avoid love busters at all costs.

Your first job needs to be to snoop, get your evidence (download what you find to a safe place) and you'll get help for the next steps.


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Thanks for the advice. I have thought about calling the other guy but figured it would only push my wife further away. I am still not entirely convinced anything is going on there. Like I am feeling paranoid about their relationship but I do have a history of being paranoid over these things and have been burnt in previous relationships, which probably doesn't help.

My wife said today she isn't going to see him anymore, but I felt like she didn't really mean it. So I guess I'll just wait it out at the moment and see what happens.

It's hard for me to talk about it to her as she gets angry when ever I ask her about it and says I'm interrogating her or constantly asking questions. Which I guess has been the case to some extent because I am so worried about it. This seems to be pushing her away more but I am trying really hard to not discuss it for the time being. She also says the best thing I can do is give her space.

Do you think marriage counseling will be of any benefit?

I am really lost at the moment and not sure how I should be approaching it. Do I try and be affectionate towards her even though she is cold? Or should I distance myself from her as much as I can whilst still living together?

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Quote:
Thanks for the advice. I have thought about calling the other guy but figured it would only push my wife further away. I am still not entirely convinced anything is going on there. Like I am feeling paranoid about their relationship but I do have a history of being paranoid over these things and have been burnt in previous relationships, which probably doesn't help.


Many people have discovered that their gut feelings are correct. You are not being paranoid. It's very VERY normal to feel threatened and jealous under the conditions you have laid out. It would be easier for your wife to stop the behavior that makes you feel this way than for you to somehow stop feeling threatened or "paranoid."

One of the very basic Extraordinary Precautions married people should have is to never have good friendships of the opposite sex. That means it's not okay to go out alone with OS friends. This is very risky behavior at the very least.

Quote:
My wife said today she isn't going to see him anymore, but I felt like she didn't really mean it. So I guess I'll just wait it out at the moment and see what happens.


Snoop, snoop, snoop, but do it quietly. And don't ask her about it or bring it up anymore. Until you find something that is solid evidence and then come back here for help with the next step. Meanwhile, don't spend any nights apart. Make sure all your leisure time is with your wife.

Quote:
It's hard for me to talk about it to her as she gets angry when ever I ask her about it and says I'm interrogating her or constantly asking questions. Which I guess has been the case to some extent because I am so worried about it. This seems to be pushing her away more but I am trying really hard to not discuss it for the time being. She also says the best thing I can do is give her space.


Don't bring it up again. Look for evidence.

redflag Every wayward wife asks for/demands that her husband give her space.

Quote:
Do you think marriage counseling will be of any benefit?


Marriage counseling is more than likely going to be of little benefit because of the affair. Most MCs don't understand infidelity and the fog of an affair. The best thing you can do at the moment is to read up on all the basic concepts of Marriage Builders (in our opinion and experience, the absolute best plan for a great marriage "out there.") There's lots of really valuable and free information on this website.

Quote:
I am really lost at the moment and not sure how I should be approaching it. Do I try and be affectionate towards her even though she is cold? Or should I distance myself from her as much as I can whilst still living together?


What are your wife's ENs? Do you have an idea? Most women like Intimate Conversation and Affection, but if she's having an A, she may not allow you to meet these needs. Still, you can try showing her affection and having enjoyable conversation with your wife. Look good, smell good. Don't be annoying about it - meet her needs as much as she will allow.

And don't make the mistake of distancing yourself from her. This will only make her feel as though you don't care and probably validate her affair. Show her that you DO care and that you are her best choice.

And don't talk about the affair or ask questions at this time. Remember, she will lie about it and she will find ways to hide it. Keep snooping, but be very quiet about it. Most waywards get sloppy at some point.


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Originally Posted By: domedelay
I have also discovered she was looking at rental properties the last 2 days and she says she is just looking at prices. This has been really hard for me to deal with. At the moment we have agreed to keep living together for another few weeks and to try marriage counseling.


At this point Dr Harley would probably advise you to investigate and get proof that she is having an affair. We know she is. But proof is needed in order to effectively expose the affair.
Can you hire a private investigator?
You need to find as much information as you can about this man for future exposure.

You should also enter "Plan A" However this will be a difficlt time because your wife is in love with another man.

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As for marriage counseling, that ia largely ineffective during an affair.
In fact it can actually worsen the marriage.

She will likely use marriage counseling as a forum to advocate and gain approval for a "trial separation" so she can "be alone to think"
That is why she is looking for rentals etc.
And I assure you she won't be "alone" during a separation

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Also, you can stop your independent behavior as well. No taking some children on vacation leaving her home to take care of a child after surgery. No bucks' nights out. While you are snooping and working on doing what you can to stop the affair, read Dr. Harley's basic concepts and work on becoming the husband she needs.


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Hiring a PI is probably not an option at the moment. She has said she wont be seeing the OM again. However I don't understand why she is saying this as at the same time it seems like she is set on leaving me. So it seems contradictory to me. She really doesn't seem to be making an effort to try and make things better at the moment and I asked her why she hasn't left already. She said she is staying because I wanted her to stay for a few weeks to try and work things out.
I have access to her facebook, emails and phone but I haven't found anything that suggests she is having an affair. It is possible that she is deleting any contact with him or maybe there is nothing going on. I know there is some red flags but maybe she has just lost interest in me.
Its going to be hard to stay at home as all of next week I am out of town for work and then back for a week and then gone again the week after.
She said she is willing to do marriage counseling and if I don't ring and organise soon she probably wont want to.

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Originally Posted By: Coping with Infidelity Part 1

When the spouses are together, an emotional distance usually prevails. Sex is almost always a problem for women who are having an affair, and many men having an affair find they cannot make love to their wives, either. In many cases, intimacy in marriage becomes so bad that a separation is requested to "sort things out." An affair is often suspected by the jilted spouse, but almost always vigorously denied by the offending spouse. It usually takes solid evidence, like B.D.'s finding her husband in bed with her best friend, to get an unfaithful spouse to admit the truth.

I've seen so many spouses lie about affairs, that when one spouse wants a separation, my best guess is that he or she is having an affair. I'm right almost every time.

Why would anyone need to be alone to sort things out? It makes much more sense to think that being separated makes it easier to be with their lover. Granted, there are many good reasons for a separation, such as physical or extreme mental abuse. But of all those I've seen separate, most have had lovers in the wings.


Here is a link to the entire article HERE


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(she IS still in the affair)

Ignore her words.

She is addicted to the secrecy.

Do not see a marriage counselor.......it would be the kiss of death.

Instead, assume she is in the affair and lying to you and read up on Plan A and be the very best man you are capable of being in order to attempt to lay ground work for a future reconciliation of the marriage if the affair ever dies.







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Bad news just sent a message to her saying I booked the counseling for two weeks time. She replied and said she wants me to move out today to give her space to think if she wants to still be with me. She said in two weeks she will know if she wants to go through with the counseling... I havent replied yet

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Originally Posted By: domedelay
Bad news just sent a message to her saying I booked the counseling for two weeks time. She replied and said she wants me to move out today to give her space to think if she wants to still be with me. She said in two weeks she will know if she wants to go through with the counseling... I havent replied yet


Do not move out.

She is lying. She is seeing her OM. She is having an affair.

You need to hide a digital VAR in her car and in the house ASAP. Hire a PI if you can hire one.

Have you gotten the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley?

Have you learned how to fully expose the affair?

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WW's do not want to separate and divorce unless they have your replacement lined up.

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Do not move out.

Heck.....SHE can go if she must (don't tell her she can go, but know that she is a grown up who can figure this out).

Stay at home. Tell her you are not going anywhere. Say it nicely and matter of factly (no angry outbursts or getting into discussions about it).


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I cant expose the affair because I have no evidence and I myself am not fully convinced she is having one.. She only met this bloke a month ago and hung out with him 3 times (that I know of)...

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