Downloading now.

Moving back in to house tonight. Fresh clean slate, no one is allowed to be disrespectful at any time to each other. Talk the talk is how she phrased. There will be no discussing of "us" and our relationship until we get in front of a therapist. In the mean time I'll read the book ML suggested as fast as possible.

What will you do when she slips up?

This is exactly what I had to do. Prisca hated Marriage Builders because of my own disrespect and love busters. Look at the gaps in her posting history - some of those are because she was busy, but some of them are because she was mad at me!

When we crossed the romantic love threshold again earlier this year, she almost immediately insisted that we come back here again.

From Effective Marriage Counseling:

"My efforts to convince couples that they should learn selflessness and be committed to each other for life didn�t work. In almost every couple I counseled, there was at least one spouse who felt that selflessness and commitment made no sense at all. That spouse wanted out. And in most cases, the other spouse wasn�t in the mood to be selfless or committed after being the victim of neglect, abuse, infidelity, and other indignities."

Walk away for now.

So you crossed it and then lost it? I wasn't aware. Massive AO?

We crossed it many, many times on this journey. It wasn't until this year that it appears we made things permanent.

My last AO was over a year ago - Prisca insisted that I was moving out and could not live with her unless they stop completely. That was the end of the excuses for me. After what I now call "Super 8 motel therapy," I had to learn to not have an angry outburst no matter what, including even if Prisca has one herself.

Super 8 motel - last year, summer
Antidepressants - Dec last year - March this year
Recovery: from around March, onward

It probably took her back to that bad place in a moment's notice. Love Bank annihilated = Motel 8. All the thinking and researching about my wife and why she does thing helps me a lot, it is how my brain works, understanding things helps me accept them a bit more. It doesn't mean that the same process won't/can't be followed, which is to me eliminate LBs entirely, but it means that I'm much more aware of the "why's" and it helps keep me aware of what is at stake if I do. Great part is, if I truly commit to this once again, even if she doesn't commit, there is no other outcome but success.

Ok so I'm headed home tonight, then take family out for dinner to break the ice and have some fun. This isn't going to be an easy path and what I'm most fearful of is how to react/respond to a DJ, SD, or AO. I know they will be coming, so I need to rehearse what to say and how to react. Last SD by me was about 10pm on Tuesday, none since, but that has been via text. We are not going to "talk" about us, but we will watch some tv just to get used to being in the same room together. I offered to sleep in spare bedroom depending on how she felt but didn't get an answer to it. I'm in a place where getting my needs met hasn't been what bothers me the most. It is the DJs and SDs. They get to me, and then I get fed up and fire back. I will not do that but I certainly am wide open on specific examples of how to respond and/or not respond when they inevitably will come.

Rule #1 - stay calm!

Get that biofeedback meter Dr. Harley talks about and work with it - you will learn a lot about staying calm.

Since you aren't talking about the relationship, if she is demanding or disrespectful toward you, save your complaint about it for later. (That's what Dr. Harley recommends anyway - a weekly worksheet rather than trying to talk about it on the fly.)

There were times in the beginning when I would have to say, "I'm sorry but I need to take a walk." This was better than me yelling and saying something hateful.

That's great news, HLB.


Yes, we do understand. That is why Dr H says they have to be eliminated FIRST before anything else can happen. The first priority is to make sure you dont fire 'back'. It's not an SD or DJ to say you're stressed and need to take five. It takes practice to do this cheerfully and calmly instead of creating a dramatic mood.

One thing Dr H recommends is practicing cheerful and calm negotiation on small issues before talking about the relationship. For example, practice PoJA on each item to go in the basket in the grocery store.

Once you can negotiate what kind of cereal you're both happy with using PoJA and respect, you're ready for bigger topics.

It was a pleasant night. A little bit of talk about us, but not much and all of it was positive about where we are going and that we both have the skills and desire to get there. My wife is fearful of therapy, I am less so because I'm so determined to make it about me. In the past I was concerned about SD's. Since it is a request, that implies there needs to be an answer, but I guess that isn't true. For me the trick is making sure that when I "take 5" I do it respectfully particularly with no facial expressions. I full expect that when I do this, there will be a backlash, but I'm determined not to make her pay for it. I will recite in my head, "Pointless, pointless, pointless" to keep myself in awareness mode that trying to fire back serves absolutely no purpose.

YES! I can see you getting it.



Exactly. Just because most of us are born with this instinct doesn't mean we can't change it.

Dr H said when he was learning to scuba dive it was instinctive to panic when he stopped getting airflow. But he and many other people have learned how to stay calm, and fix the airflow when this happens on a dive. Similarly in marriage we can unblock conflicts without letting basic instinct muddy the water.

So I realize now that my wife and I started on our journey not expecting anything from each other. I mean needs were met, and there were few enough lovebusters that we crossed the threshold enough to tie the knot. As life got more complicated, with children, and there were many more responsibilities and stresses in our life the lovebusters increased and the needs being met decreased. So then one day I wake up and decide that after 7 years that I suddenly had expectations in our marriage. In my wife's defense, this is not what she had signed up for in the first place. I think it is safe to say we both led very independent lives, and it was me that started to demand that we shift into a partnership, not over time but "from this day moving forward." We never started as partners, yet somehow we were able to make it work, at least for a period of time. Where we are now was inevitable because we never learned what it really means and what it takes to have a mutually beneficial relationship. It doesn't matter if it is marriage, or any other relationship. If I were to give a customer free services for six months and then told him he needed to pay me one day, you better believe it is human nature to take exception to that request, especially if it is in a demand. It is true in every single permutation in the human psyche to react this way. I told my wife, through my actions, that I did not require anything from her from day one, and two years ago I started to demand that she pay, and I don't blame her one bit for being upset about it.

What have you done today that is going to make your wife feel better about herself, you and your marriage?

From your posts I get the impression that you care a great deal about turning your marriage around. On the other side, you must beware of something:

People have two sides, a giver and a taker. If the giver is active, your mind circles around how you can make the other person happy. If the taker is active, you are very aware of everything you do for your spouse and it could be that you don't notice half as much what your spouse is doing for you.

In your current situation, it is very likely that your taker, is overactive. Please realize, that to have a good relationship, you alsohave to control your taker.

Read up on the giver and the taker here:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_give.html

God bless

Happyheart

I'm well familiar with my Taker, he causes the big fights every time. I also know my Giver well, he gives repeatedly, then the Taker comes to straighten it out. I've been to this point in our relationship many times. All the times in the past I'd set myself to eliminate all lovebusters but I would never complain. When you don't complain respectfully you are giving unconditional love which is totally unsustainable. I guess I figured that if my wife knew I needed something then she should just do it, and that I shouldn't have to bring it up over and over. It isn't that she doesn't know, it is that by not bringing it up, I'm not keeping it in the forefront.

Today she lovebusted me. She put words in my mouth and made some assumptions about how I was feeling about a situation. I calmly and respectfully told her that this bothered me and I'd appreciate it if she wouldn't do that moving forward. She came back and did it again, so I didn't fire back, I simply repeated my request with as little emotion as I could. She is heading out so I kissed and told her to not worry about the kids, I got it covered, and to have a great time tonight. Furthermore I offered a coffee on the way home to make sure she knew that there is no hard feelings and that my request was simply that, nothing else.

"If the taker is active, you are very aware of everything you do for your spouse and it could be that you don't notice half as much what your spouse is doing for you. "

I'm not sure about that. I don't think that the inequity in the relationship that I feel causes me to not notice half of what she is doing for me, I really don't. My needs are met scarcely but that is likely because A. I'm still making my wife feel bad, and B. I don't complain enough. I intend to change that this time around.

This sounds great, well done.