Wise Counsel,

Wife of 19 years has had enough. Wants H (me) to stick around 5 more years until out 13-yr old is out of the house.
W has no intention of meeting H's EN. H tries to meet W's, but apparently, hashing/rehashing sins of the past comes under the EN topic of conversation and her being understood. And I cannot do that after we've discussed them already for years.

I've presented Dr H's plan to revive Romance, but she's of the opinion that she knows all Dr H's principles and practices them, and I'm the one who doesn't. Therefore, she has no interest in reviving.

She complains of my disdain for her, when the facts are, I'm the one always taking the blame for our problems, do the few remaining things she'll do with me together (family functions) or do for her (perhaps fill her car up with gas) and she is the one refusing to "like" me, all the while pinning all problems on me.

I am desperate to do the right thing. Is the right thing hanging around in a loveless marriage? Is the right thing to keep discussing the same questions re: past sins, that I've have given my best answers to many times already, for years.

Clueless and lonely,
Remark

What are you doing that upsets her so much? What are her complaints about you?

Would she fill out this questionnaire for you? http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forms/MaritalProblemAnalysis.pdf

Will she come here and post her perspective to us?

It sounds like your wife has tried the Marriage Builders program, but something hasn't worked for her, and she has lost hope. I suspect that if you could figure out what didn't work right and fix it, it would go a long way toward giving her hope again.

I can see right off one problem in your post: you dismiss her complaint instead of addressing it. For example, she complains of your disdain for her - in Marriage Builders terms, that means she is complaining that you are disrespectful, a love buster. You need to get some help from us or Dr. Harley or one of the coaches in the Marriage Builders office to find out how you are being disrespectful to her and fix it. The way you are posting about her complaint is the wrong approach, and would cause any woman to lose hope.

For goodness sake, quit taking blame for the problems in your marriage. Blame assigning is counterproductive to fixing the marriage. You have to address her complaints - find out what you are doing or saying that she feels is disdainful, and stop doing it! Don't debate about what "the facts are," like you do in this paragraph:

That does not help at all. You do something that she feels is disrespectful, and there is no hope if you are not willing to change that. If you immediately debate it every time she brings it up, she is not going to have any hope that you will ever fix the disrespect, or any other marital problem.

Nope.

She wanted to use a forum. I'm new to this forum stuff. I suggested MB as I listen to it pretty regularly and had heard Joyce mention it. W suggested TalkAboutMarriage.com. So, we did last weekend. She says she's done as of last night though now. With great struggle (learning how to learn to use the forum, create ID, thread, etc.), I created a thread 'Can you rebuild a marriage without communication?' because she doesn't want to talk anymore except through a forum. Why? Because, from her perspective, I don't answer her Q's. From my perspective, I've answered those same questions to my best abilities already. (It's rhetorical to think you can have a relationship without communicating.)
Thanks
Thanks

No, the right thing to do is to start fixing it! In a healthy marriage, husband and wife are receptive to each other's complaints and use that information to adjust their behavior to stop doing things that make the other unhappy and start doing things that will make them happier.

The complaints have to be received with no defense at all. Otherwise, you'll miss the information contained in them and never adjust. This will keep the marriage loveless forever.


The right thing to do is to change the present so that those past sins could never happen again. For example, if you had an affair, make sure you have no opposite sex friendships and your wife is invited to check up on you and you provide complete transparency (all bank accounts, passwords, phones, etc.). Or if you used to be on drugs, rule out friends who did/do drugs from your life. Meanwhile, get rid of what is causing unhappiness in the present - unhappiness in the present that doesn't feel like it will ever be fixed tends to cause people to start going over the unhappy events of the past all over again.

What are her questions that she says you don't answer?

What do you do or say that she feels is disdainful?

No.

Many past hurts over the 19 years, the recurring topic of conversation with her.

Will do.

Thanks,
Markos

I'll need to re-read this a few more times (at home)to be able to say 'I got it'.

Thanks

What do you do or say that she finds disdainful? I didn't see an answer. We can help you if you'll be more specific in your answers.

What questions does she ask that she says you don't answer? Please be specific.

We did HN, HN 18 years ago and LB after that. She gets the concepts. She's very smart, remembers everything and can negotiate me under the table. She has been much better at meeting my EN than I hers.
She has definfed, rigid boundaries. I have flxible, if at all, boundaries, I'm told.

Her question; Background first: She ( my trophy wife) and I married 19 years ago, 2 years after my divorce. I had 4 kids JL/JP custody of. 13-14 years ago, son would come home from school, and forget to do his chores one of which was to set the
kitchen table for dinner. Yet, he'd do it if someone reminded him. I had a hard time disciplining him first thing when I got home from work. This became issue. When we discussed with partor/counselor. He looked at me and said 'That's and easy one, discipline him.' So, I got on board.

Her question: Why did I take his advice, but not hers?
My answer: "Because I perceived him as more objective, not coming from her ( subjective ) persepective, or my (subjective) perspective. And, like I said, I hated to discipline him first thing when I got home, and he has two sets of rules ( one at my house, and virtually none at his mother's) so I could easily see his difficulty, understand difficulty in remembering to set the table. And recall, he does it without arguing if you ask him." But, that answer doesn't compute in her mind, intelligent as it is.

That help?
Thanks

Remark, the reason she keeps bringing up past wrongs is because they have not been corrected in the present. For example, instead of considering her feelings and negotiating a solution about your son, you valued the opinion of your pastor. The problem with that is that a) it ignored your wife's feelings and b) you are not married to your pastor so it doesn't matter if you took his advice or not.

The MB solution to that problem would be to find a solution that made you both happy. we find solutions that are win/win, that enhance the marriage.

So yes you were wrong to take the pastors opinion over your wife's feelings. HOWEVER, you should not have disciplined your child AT ALL until you found a solution that made you both happy. We don't care about what the pastor said, but about what would make you and the wife happy.

And neither of you are using MB concepts or you would not be fighting like you are. Will your wife come here and let us work with her too?

TAM does not have a marriage program and MB does.

It sounds to me like the pressing problem is that you ignore her complaints. She had a complaint about the issue with your son. She brought it to you and nothing changed. If you're like most men, you probably gave a response about how you thought everything was okay.

Basically it took dragging you to a counselor to get you to address that one complaint.

I'm sure she has hundreds of complaints. If you want a happy marriage, you have to get in the habit of addressing them (making an actual change) without her feeling like it is a big ordeal. You have to develop a habit of soliciting and inviting her complaints and feedback on the job you are doing as a husband, and get in the habit of making changes that address her complaints, promptly. Otherwise she will (rightly) feel discouraged.

Complaints fall into two categories. First off is things you are doing that bother her. STOP doing those and look for alternatives. Simple. (Deceptively simple.) Second is things she would like you to do - like in this case, fix the problem with your son. TAKE CARE of those in ways that you are enthusiastic about, and if you are not enthusiastic about what she wants, brainstorm together with her and find a way to meet her need that you are enthusiastic about, or else you will be leaving her unhappy.

I think what is needed is not an answer to "Why did you listen to the counselor, but not me?" I think the question she needs answered is "Are you going to address my complaints on your own, or not?" If the answer is "not," then she probably won't stay with you.

In a good marriage, complaints are encouraged, and husband and wife make changes based on their spouse's complaints.

In a bad marriage, complaints are usually met with an answer as to why the spouse shouldn't feel that way - why their complaint is not reasonable - why things have to be the way they are - etc. This kind of response usually causes people to give up complaining. Eventually they are so unhappy they divorce.

We can help you learn to be more responsive to your wife's complaints so that she doesn't feel so frustrated that she wants to leave you.

Couple extra questions:

Have you read the Basic Concepts on this webpage? They present the Marriage Builders material in a little different way from HNHN and LB, especially if you read them a long time ago. There are several pages in the Basic Concepts that are very applicable to your situation.

How did your first marriage end?