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itsamess #2766779 11/19/13 10:07 AM
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"The OM wife called me and threatned to sue me for AOA. My husband was also threatening the OM. The OM called me and all he could do was beg me to keep my H from suing him."

Good for her!! hurray I would encourage her to follow through. It would be in all of your best interest if she did.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


itsamess #2766780 11/19/13 10:07 AM
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Are you reading Surviving an Affair?
Did you write a No Contact letter to OM and give it to your husband?

itsamess #2766781 11/19/13 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by itsamess
I am serious about trying to recover my marriage. I desperately want to seek the advise of people here and Im willing to do whatever to make it work

We will see. I have seen you continually try to reject good advice based on your own preconceived - and wrong headed - biases.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


itsamess #2766792 11/19/13 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by itsamess
I totally get where you are coming from with your comments regarding my posts! If you were married to a serial cheater it becomes very hard to be objective in your advice and opinion.
Please tell me what "objective" advice would look like and how it would differ from black_raven's advice.

You have been unfaithful to your husband a number of times (with how many men?) and no care or concern for him or your children has stopped this. You have deserted them twice this year already, causing immesurable grief. You have prostituted yourself for a man who is using you for sex and will never leave his wife for you. What would your "objective" advice look like?


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I find it troubling that you wanted the insight of a FWW to help you, but you have yet to respond to the advice I gave. I suspect it is because you did not like what I had to say. Instead of looking for concrete advice on how to get out of this hole you have dug, you are looking for pats on the back and "atta girls."

Am I correct?


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Prisca #2766801 11/19/13 10:56 AM
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Another round on the merry-go-round. Itsamess, there are many smart posters here, including FWW, willing to help you - but with 15 years of repeated behaviour and unwilling to even listen to advice on this thread, should they spend their time helping you? Or should they go help those who are actually willing to do the steps to make their marriage?


itsamess #2766831 11/19/13 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by itsamess
I am serious about trying to recover my marriage. I desperately want to seek the advise of people here and Im willing to do whatever to make it work
What EPs have you given your BH? Can you do the MB online program?

What just compensation have you given your BH?

Have you changed all contact information within the last 3 weeks?

Have you been tested for STD/I?

What is Just Compensation?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I have changed my phone number in the last three weeks. I deleted the yahoo messenger account that I used to talk to the OM and I deleted his account. My husband has online access to our cell phone bills. The only possible way I could communicate with OM would be thru my office phone. I have not and will not call him.

I am truly not looking for anyone to feel sorry for me or pat me on the back. I honestly was seeking suggestions for helping to emotionally get thru the fog process of ending this affair.

I literally feel like I can't breathe at times. I have started texting my husband and telling him how much I love him every time I get this anxious feeling. I am trying to keep my focus on my marriage and building it back.

I was tested for STD's at my yearly checkup in Oct. I specifically requested it.


itsamess #2766886 11/19/13 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by itsamess
The only possible way I could communicate with OM would be thru my office phone. I have not and will not call him.
This is a huge hole in your EPs. It was the means that my H used to communicate with his OW for 8 years. She lived in another country and he never even saw her for 5 of those years, but the emotional part of the affair thrived, making a disaster of my marriage. My H never once used the home phone for contact, and for years we didn't have a PC or the Internet at home. The only means was via the office - but those means were devastating to my mental health and my marriage.

Contact only stopped when my H retired from work. With your record of uncontrollable promiscuity and deceit, you will have to give up working outside of the home. Your H has no assurance that you are not contacting OM every day for the 8 hours you are at work.

Dr H always advises serial adulterers to give up outside work, or work alongside their spouse in a joint business with full accountability. Recovery with someone as addicted to affairs as you is impossible if you keep your job.


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thank you for the advice!

markos #2766906 11/19/13 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by markos
That time you spend together - is it free of distractions? No TV, no pagers, no kids, no internet, no friends? This time will not work to repair your marriage if it is not spent giving each other your UNDIVIDED ATTENTION. You can't give undivided attention if your attention is divided. smile So don't count every minute you spend together in life - your attention is usually divided during that time. Instead, SCHEDULE fifteen hours a week and SPEND that time giving each other your undivided attention.

Is the time spent meeting the four intimate emotional needs that Dr. Harley lists? (conversation, affection, recreational companionship, sexual fulfillment)

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair - the new version that came out this year? Have you read it? Has your husband read it?

itsamess, why aren't you answering my questions?

I've been working the Marriage Builders program for nearly four years, have listened to thousands of hours of Marriage Builders Radio, read most of the books, and gotten fairly good at helping people through this program. If you'll engage and answer the questions that are being asked and make sure you are taking the steps Dr. Harley recommends (that I'm repeating to you), you can probably come out of this fairly well.

The questions aren't rhetorical. If you don't answer the questions, you are probably missing most of the concrete things you need to DO in order to recover, and you probably won't recover.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
itsamess #2766911 11/19/13 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by itsamess
thank you for the advice!
Have you any intention of taking it?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
itsamess #2766922 11/19/13 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by itsamess
The only possible way I could communicate with OM would be thru my office phone. I have not and will not call him.

Huge LOOPHOLE. As long as you have this ability, it is likely the affair will resume. Or a new one will take place. This loophole should be closed.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


itsamess #2766959 11/19/13 08:43 PM
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Itsamess, first, let me establish that everything I have to say here is being whispered, as a friend might do over a cup of coffee.

I'm 46, too.

I'm not going to pretend I have much good advice to offer to someone in a marriage in which both partners have been unfaithful. I also don't have any personal experience with serial infidelity. I know that ultimately, for you & your husband to have a great marriage, he needs to be all-in, just as you do. I also know that you can only clean up your own side of the street, and he has to clean up his.

You've been here for over 3 years. Have you ever read "Surviving An Affair"? That's not a rhetorical question, it's a serious question. What's your answer?

What are your extraordinary precautions? List them, please, in specific detail. I'll give you feedback.

Re: withdrawal, do an advanced search on this website for "managing memories and dealing with triggers." You'll find some very helpful information. Information that was immensely helpful to me after my own affair.

I think you need to take off your rose-colored glasses with regard to the other man. This is a guy who was willing to coldcock your husband. Figuratively-speaking, he was perfectly willing to ambush your husband from a blind alley, smash his face down into the pavement, steal your husband's wallet, kick him in the ribs & leave him lying there in a puddle of blood & broken teeth. Your OM was a thug. And you miss his texts? I'm not suggesting that you need to demonize the OM in your memories -- you don't need to at all, because the complete reality is plenty bad enough. I'm merely suggesting that you see the complete reality, including that side of reality that you've been willfully suppressing. Sure, OM was nice to you, for a spell; but he was a puke-inducing moral cipher to your husband -- a man who'd never done OM any wrong. And you've been choosing to overlook that.

And re: this:
Originally Posted by itsamess
..AND, of course, I was being brainwashed by the OM thinking that it was just a matter of time before he left his wife and we would be together....
itsamess, one thing you can count on from me is to call "Bullcrap!" when I see it, and this is bullcrap. It's an abdication of responsibility on your part, for a situation for which you bear 100% responsibility -- because the situation could never have gotten to that point had you not allowed it, condoned it, & embraced it. If you want to be worth more than cold spit again as a wife, the first thing you need to do is to start taking a look at your own bullcrap & owning it, & knocking it off. (Remember, I'm still whispering to you here. It's truth. Not for my good, but for yours. Not out of condescension -- for I lived in too much of a glass house, 5 years ago, to throw stones at you today -- but out of an interest in sharing with you the truth, just 'cuz it may do you some good.)

Your entire relationship with OM was built on a mutual conspiracy of lies & deception. In the process of deceiving your husband (and OM's wife), seems you may have deceived yourself. But you weren't brainwashed. Not at all. You signed up for lies on Day 1, from the moment you took the hand of another woman's husband into your own hand, and behind your own husband's back. When you did that, you said to OM, not in words, but in deeds, "I'm OK with lies!" That's the message you sent in big, neon letters, sister. What a pair you made, eh?

And y'know, I could've been your OM, itsamess. Not literally, but in just about any other respect. I was nice to the other woman -- I was witty, funny, smart, good-looking, fun to be around, attentive, a good listener -- and in order to keep getting the cheap, no-strings-attached affirmation (and let's face it, the free "strange", too) that she'd begun tossing my way, you bet I was fine with showing her the best side of myself, not my complete self. Let's imagine for a couple of sentences here that you were her: And, itsamess, you were never a commitment for me, you were always just an option. And you weren't the mother of my children, you weren't my first love, the woman to whom I'd promised "forever," with whom I shared so many inside jokes and so, so many good memories. And when your husband found out about us, I did what I'd known all-along that I'd do if ever forced to choose: I confessed to my wife, and you're damned right I "threw you under the bus," as you put it. I knew back then (even if I couldn't articulate it for awhile afterwards) that you were no one I'd want to spend the rest of my life lying about everytime we'd have met new friends & had to tell the story of how we'd become an item. I may have told you "I love you," and may even have felt it, but part of that was also my own fog & addiction, and part of it was a superficial chivalry (as in, "if you're sleeping with someone, you should say you love them -- it's the only thing a courteous & decent gentleman-scoundrel would do, right?" ).

But the truth was all there for you to realize anytime you chose. That you chose instead to deceive yourself is your fault. If anyone "brainwashed" you, itsamess, it was you yourself.

Get it?

You got questions? Ask me.

Read SAA & what it says about withdrawal. And answer my questions from above (the underlined ones) -- Not for me, 'cuz it makes no difference to me as a stranger on an internet forum whether you've put EPs in place; but answer them for you.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
GloveOil #2766978 11/19/13 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by GloveOil
Itsamess, first, let me establish that everything I have to say here is being whispered, as a friend might do over a cup of coffee.

I'm 46, too.

I'm not going to pretend I have much good advice to offer to someone in a marriage in which both partners have been unfaithful. I also don't have any personal experience with serial infidelity. I know that ultimately, for you & your husband to have a great marriage, he needs to be all-in, just as you do. I also know that you can only clean up your own side of the street, and he has to clean up his.

You've been here for over 3 years. Have you ever read "Surviving An Affair"? That's not a rhetorical question, it's a serious question. What's your answer?

What are your extraordinary precautions? List them, please, in specific detail. I'll give you feedback.

Re: withdrawal, do an advanced search on this website for "managing memories and dealing with triggers." You'll find some very helpful information. Information that was immensely helpful to me after my own affair.

I think you need to take off your rose-colored glasses with regard to the other man. This is a guy who was willing to coldcock your husband. Figuratively-speaking, he was perfectly willing to ambush your husband from a blind alley, smash his face down into the pavement, steal your husband's wallet, kick him in the ribs & leave him lying there in a puddle of blood & broken teeth. Your OM was a thug. And you miss his texts? I'm not suggesting that you need to demonize the OM in your memories -- you don't need to at all, because the complete reality is plenty bad enough. I'm merely suggesting that you see the complete reality, including that side of reality that you've been willfully suppressing. Sure, OM was nice to you, for a spell; but he was a puke-inducing moral cipher to your husband -- a man who'd never done OM any wrong. And you've been choosing to overlook that.

And re: this:
Originally Posted by itsamess
..AND, of course, I was being brainwashed by the OM thinking that it was just a matter of time before he left his wife and we would be together....
itsamess, one thing you can count on from me is to call "Bullcrap!" when I see it, and this is bullcrap. It's an abdication of responsibility on your part, for a situation for which you bear 100% responsibility -- because the situation could never have gotten to that point had you not allowed it, condoned it, & embraced it. If you want to be worth more than cold spit again as a wife, the first thing you need to do is to start taking a look at your own bullcrap & owning it, & knocking it off. (Remember, I'm still whispering to you here. It's truth. Not for my good, but for yours. Not out of condescension -- for I lived in too much of a glass house, 5 years ago, to throw stones at you today -- but out of an interest in sharing with you the truth, just 'cuz it may do you some good.)

Your entire relationship with OM was built on a mutual conspiracy of lies & deception. In the process of deceiving your husband (and OM's wife), seems you may have deceived yourself. But you weren't brainwashed. Not at all. You signed up for lies on Day 1, from the moment you took the hand of another woman's husband into your own hand, and behind your own husband's back. When you did that, you said to OM, not in words, but in deeds, "I'm OK with lies!" That's the message you sent in big, neon letters, sister. What a pair you made, eh?

And y'know, I could've been your OM, itsamess. Not literally, but in just about any other respect. I was nice to the other woman -- I was witty, funny, smart, good-looking, fun to be around, attentive, a good listener -- and in order to keep getting the cheap, no-strings-attached affirmation (and let's face it, the free "strange", too) that she'd begun tossing my way, you bet I was fine with showing her the best side of myself, not my complete self. Let's imagine for a couple of sentences here that you were her: And, itsamess, you were never a commitment for me, you were always just an option. And you weren't the mother of my children, you weren't my first love, the woman to whom I'd promised "forever," with whom I shared so many inside jokes and so, so many good memories. And when your husband found out about us, I did what I'd known all-along that I'd do if ever forced to choose: I confessed to my wife, and you're damned right I "threw you under the bus," as you put it. I knew back then (even if I couldn't articulate it for awhile afterwards) that you were no one I'd want to spend the rest of my life lying about everytime we'd have met new friends & had to tell the story of how we'd become an item. I may have told you "I love you," and may even have felt it, but part of that was also my own fog & addiction, and part of it was a superficial chivalry (as in, "if you're sleeping with someone, you should say you love them -- it's the only thing a courteous & decent gentleman-scoundrel would do, right?" ).

But the truth was all there for you to realize anytime you chose. That you chose instead to deceive yourself is your fault. If anyone "brainwashed" you, itsamess, it was you yourself.

Get it?

You got questions? Ask me.

Read SAA & what it says about withdrawal. And answer my questions from above (the underlined ones) -- Not for me, 'cuz it makes no difference to me as a stranger on an internet forum whether you've put EPs in place; but answer them for you.

100% truth no filter. Awesome post GO.

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Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
Look at this way. If you stick to no contact for 30 days, the feelings will dissipate. Dr. Harley says this, and he has worked with thousands of couples, so he knows the patterns.

In addition, if you spend AU time with your husband meeting each other's needs, you can rekindle the flames.

As ML said, take a one week trip together. Dr. Harley recommends couples in recovery take a long vacation together, even longer than 1 week if you can get off work that long.

When my wife and I recovered our marriage, we went on a cruise together and had a great time. We dated, went out often and did the fun things we had stopped doing as husband and wife. We got our relationship back on track. Try it. If you do, you will be able to get the POSOM out of your thoughts faster than you think, and maybe even rekindle the flame with your husband.

But you both have to buy into MB's.

I'm not going to cherry pick the things you say that are problems. I'm not sure that is helpful to you, though I do agree with the others that you need to come to Jesus and rid yourself of excuses and rationalizations.

But consider the advice Dr. Harley gives about marriage recovery. You have to start by spending a lot of time with your husband as I indicated to you in the earlier post quoted above. If you are serious about recovery start the program and follow through. You will have to remake yourself.

Lao Tzu was onto something when he said:

�Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habit. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.�

Follow the program. Follow the program.

GloveOil #2767222 11/21/13 08:12 AM
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To glove oil.....thank you for the candid, from your heart post. It has been the most eye opening post I have read and has given me much to think about.

I realize that I meant nothing to the OM. Even if he had run to me instead of back home to his wife. It would never make me more than the OW that he was with.

I appreciate and have taken to heart all the other posts as well.

I want to try to get to the bottom of the complex insides of ME. I am tired and ready to begin a life of truth and honest living. I would love to live that life with my husband. I would love to live that life honoring him and being the wife that is present and not constantly distracted.

I am committed to using the Marriage Builders principles to accomplish that.

itsamess #2767236 11/21/13 09:18 AM
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I am committed to using the Marriage Builders principles to accomplish that.
Then stop talking about OM and start talking about recovery.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

itsamess #2767251 11/21/13 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by itsamess
To glove oil.....thank you for the candid, from your heart post. It has been the most eye opening post I have read and has given me much to think about.

Please answer the questions that GloveOil posed to you, itsamess. GO's post was very eloquently written, and your words to him, along with the rest of your recent posts here tell me that you are still in "leading with emotion" mode. It's time for you to switch that off, get serious and lead with logic and reason, itsamess. It's time to take action in order for you to achieve your stated goal:

Originally Posted by itsamess
I am tired and ready to begin a life of truth and honest living. I would love to live that life with my husband. I would love to live that life honoring him and being the wife that is present and not constantly distracted. I am committed to using the Marriage Builders principles to accomplish that.

Talk is cheap, itsamess. What are you DOING about this? Like GloveOil, I would be interested in seeing a list of your EPs, and would also be happy to go over them with you -- I am also a FWW.

And itsamess please don't make the wrongheaded assumption that you can only be helped by those who were once wayward -- I have been here since 2005 and the folks that I credit with helping me the most happen to be betrayed wives, but I have learned a lot from many people here no matter what label might follow their name -- keep your ears and mind open where that is concerned, okay?

It always gives me a chuckle when I read a fresh-out-of-the-affair-wayward come here and cry out for former waywards to come to their rescue, because I think they believe that a FWS will be gentler on them -- and they are dead wrong. I'll have to paraphrase this out of respect for the profanity filter here, but ever hear the phrase, "You can't bullshoot a bullshooter"? grin I think you'll find that we FWSs will be very quick to tell you when you are full of it -- just like a many years sober recovering alcoholic would do for a newly sober alcoholic.

Now that everyone here has acknowledged that withdrawal sucks [and it does], lets move on, okay? Best way to get through it is to take action. Have you read everything there is to read on this site? Have you ordered and begun reading Surviving An Affair? Get to work and report back with some lists and any questions you may have about marital recovery, itsamess.

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

itsamess #2767256 11/21/13 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by itsamess
I want to try to get to the bottom of the complex insides of ME.

Let me help you with that, and prevent you from wasting loads of time with pointless navel gazing. There is nothing at all complex about why you had affairs, itsamess. REALLY.

You had affairs because you did not use extraordinary precautions to protect yourself, your husband and your marriage and that allowed other men to meet your intimate emotional needs and you to meet theirs and romantic love developed due to that.

That's it. It really is that simple.

Place yourself in temptation's way and you will fail EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. We all would. Extraordinary precautions are the answer.

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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