These scientists don't think so:
Can Men and Women Be "Just Friends"

My question is about the dating scene. Since my divorce, I have gathered a suprising number of male friends (opposite sex). From my POV they are "just" friends - and I have clarified this point often (sometimes ad nauseum with a few more persistent gents). I often bump into their desire to be "more."

And yet I know some of us talk on the dating forum about being 'just friends' with opposite sex folks, for "practice" or whatever.

I really like hanging out with single guys. They are fun, have an interesting perspective, and I can just relax and joke around. Am I kidding myself that we can be "just friends?" Should I begin eyeing my FB and work buddies with suspicion?

Or just relax and enjoy it for now?

I don't think so.

I just realized that I asked 3 questions in a row. Oops.

Which question were you answering, Jedi?

Nope!

It's really simple:

If you have a friend, they are meeting some of your emotional needs. Emotional needs met by the same sex can be platonic, but needs met by the opposite sex tend to grow.

Your top emotional need with these guys is IC. They are happy to met your need, but they are ultimately looking to get their emotional needs met to. I'll give you one guess as to what that is.

ak

Hmmmm....Physical Attractiveness?
Domestic Support?
Admiration?
Recreational Companionship?

Oh....THAT one!

You can if you want, but know that they are interested in you.

Personally, once a girl says we are just friends, I move on unless I have a very good reason to believe there could be more despite what she says.

The reason is simple, after the affair I'm not interested in anything but a safe and secure relationship and a woman with a lot of male friends won't give that to me, and because it will distract me from looking for a woman that can meet my needs.

You crack me up every time!

This bums me out, because I feel - deep down - that I'd like to be friends. (Did'ya read the article? Where women really wanted to be platonic friends, but the guys really didn't?)

Oh well. Dang biology.

Ok, I admit it, I didn't read the article. I already knew the answer.

I'll try to look at it later tonight.

I feel the same way.
There's been a lot of talk about opposite sex friendships lately and it seemed to start when a poster was on the show.
He wrote to Dr Harley because he was approaching mid life and wanted a marriage. I think he was previously married. Harley recommended that the man try to get female friendships so he could learn how to communicate with the opposite sex.

He also said that when he found the right woman he would need to end those friendships.

What value is a friendship where it could be terminated in a week or two because she gets a boyfriend?
I would rather have a man as a friend that would have my back.

Oh and Harley has mentioned the movie Harry Met Sally as a good example of how men and women can't just be friends

I'd like to mix my current perspective/experience in here as well.

I've been lurking among these threads since January, around the time I ended a 9-month dating relationship, after taking the email advice of Dr.Harley that she may not be right for me. As you all can guess, he was right.

Since then, I committed myself to taking a year off from dating, which has been nothing short of amazing in helping me understand what I've been doing wrong, what it is I'm looking for, and what I have to offer.

As such, during this time, I have grown to become good friends with a number of girls at church, and being unable to date them has allowed me to learn how to actually be friends with them. This is something, I feel, I had never really learned to do before. Which is both sad and exciting.

But as I've grown to become close friends, it's also revealed to me an understanding of why I shouldn't try dating them when February rolls around (PA is apparently an overwhelming EN for me), plus they each tend to have an individual red flag buried somewhere (DJs, sacrifice-strategy, etc).

So I've found myself legitimately enjoying female friendships that I have no interest in pursuing as anything more than friends (but being completely prepared to drop them all should I get married)



So in reference to this quote, I believe I may be one of the types of guys Zhamila is describing. We can all relax and joke around, knowing that we're all just friends. Am I missing something here as well? It's possible, obviously, many of those girls are friendly with me in the hopes that I'll take them out on a date in February, but I also legitimately believe they value what I'm offering to the church and our friendships without any sacrifice on their part)

I'll eventually start my own thread when I pick dating back up in February, but was curious as to everyone's thoughts on this relating to Zhamila's question.

Z I think an activity partner or more than one is a great fit for you in the meantime. But let me plug women friendships, too, because raising kids, sometimes you need someone to call when you're stuck at work unexpectedly and a kid needs to be picked up. I only had to call a friend for help once, like 2 years ago, but it is great for peace of mind.

I don't know, maybe guy friends are willing to do that kinda thing too?

But as I recall he has also said that he and Joyce have OS friends, just not ones who meet any ENs.

Great question. For a number of reasons, I've never had many male friends. My ex-husband didn't have any female friends. My ex-boyfriend who I was with for 3 years had 1 close female friend who I always felt was trying to engage in competition with me (those are the 2 previous main relationships in my life).

The man I'm now in a relationship with has many female friends. A couple of them he has been roommates with in the past (he says nothing physical ever happened, and I do believe him). I've met the majority of his female friends. Some are married, some are not, they're either old high school friends or work friends. I didn't have this experience with either of my previous relationships. My bf has been single basically his entire life (never married, his last very serious relationship ended when he was in his 20's) so I can't blame him or fault him for living his life and having both male and female friends but now that we're together, I have spoken to him about how I have a hard time with all the lady friends and still some trust issues that have lingered over the years. This has subsided as I meet each one and see that they really are just friends.
It's not like they do stuff together on the weekends. (Now, if there is a get together, I'm included.) There's an occasional text message conversation (he's never secretive with his phone or anything like that). There are lunches together (the work friends). As a person whose marriage ended after an affair (with a "work friend") I'm extremely sensitive to it and I do believe he is taking my feelings into consideration. I trust him, but I don't want to be made a fool again.

I wouldn't want him to be the kind of person who gets a girlfriend and suddenly ditches all his friends. He has plenty of male friends too. I think he does understand where I'm coming from and why I feel the way I do and he's being considerate and respectful of it all. I have no reason not to trust him.

So can men and women be friends? I think so but there still have to be boundaries in place.

Do you have a source for that? It would help to know the context

Like many pieces of marriage builders advice, this one is a little nuanced. The simplest and least confusing way to express it is "no opposite sex friends," and that is how Dr. Harley and Joyce usually express it. That's usually how we need to express it here on the forum; for example, a former wayward needs to be simply told not to have any opposite sex friends rather than see a debate about having friends as a couple or friends that don't meet emotional needs.

Yes, Dr. Harley and Joyce have no problem with coworkers, acquaintances, fellow church members, etc. of the opposite sex, but there is no discussion of personal issues. "No friends" doesn't mean "never talking to anyone of the opposite sex," but it does mean never discussing personal issues (yours or theirs), never expressing care or admiration, etc. Generally speaking, the broad brush "no friends" explanation is what needs to be expressed, exactly as Dr. Harley and Joyce do it.

I think the problem with expressing it like this on the forum is that many people argue that their OS friend meets no needs. "I've known him since I was a child." "I could never fancy him in a million years." "He's not my type." "He's my best friend's husband. He's more like a brother to me." "He's a priest." These people meet no ENs for months or years - until the day they do.

He seemed to redraft the OS friends article after there was a debate on the forum regarding a particular couple friendship.

The article says: "I'm not opposed to all friendships of the opposite sex. I'm only opposed to those that can lead to an affair. And those are the ones where the most important emotional needs of affection, intimate conversation, recreational companionship, honesty and openness, and admiration are met."

He lays out how to evaluate which friendships will lead to generating romantic feelings.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8122_OSFriend.html

It doesnt really apply to singletons except to note that not all friendships will lead to love, but I don't think many people expect them to. There's a good chance though if the friendship is both intimate and appealing.

I know of one female friend who met and received all the listed needs of one of her male friends. It never developed because she found his conversation irritating for too long periods. However he clearly found her attractive.

We have one OS friend each, being another married couple. I have been friends with them since we were all 14. Me and her do all the arrangements to meet as couples (restaurant, movie, whatever) and me/him and her/my husband don't communicate separately outside those arrangements. It has worked well for 16 years now (they started dating at 15!).

I also find with meeting UA time that "solo" time with OS friend is darn near impossible. I find it highly unlikely that couples meeting 15 hours (or more) UA time actually have the energy or money for more meetings with OS friends! I meet my girlfriends in our baby play groups (free and mornings) and that's about it! He's at work.