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ML is right as for as your options No contact is for both spouses. EPs are for both spouses. Also, I sense you are probably participating in lovebusters to achieve this read SAA goal. This will fail and she will have another affair. You need to list what needs to be done with a deadline. I hope you have your finances proctected it isn't unheard of a WW to leave a BH and drain accounts.

Add: I heard on the radio show that Dr. Harley recommends post nuptials. Say for example if she has an affair, she loses custody, alimony and whatever you deem fit. Of course she has to agree to what goes in it. This is an awesome test of her commitment to recovery.

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Originally Posted by carsandkidz
Option B- Stay in the current school. Obviously, this looks like a bad choice. But with a little different routine, we can avoid contact- to stay in the current school, I would have to take the kids to school in the morning, avoiding a chance meeting there with the OM by the wife. In the afternoons, we would have to use the after school care for an hour which we believe would avoid any chance contact. This is what our kids want and we want kids with as few scars as possible without jeopardizing our relationship.

Has anyone else been in this situation?

Yes I have and you may not have thought about school activities and performances. It is almost guaranteed that OM will come to see his kids in school performances, sporting events, award ceremonies, etc. I can personally tell you that having to look or run into OM will ruin an event that should be really special to you. It will suck you right back into the hurt... not to mention that it will break NC.

You cannot control what OM may do and therefore, it is up to you to take control of your own life to make sure that OM cannot interject himself back into it.

Moving was a huge weight lifted from my shoulders. People move all the time and your kids will adjust.

Last edited by pokerface; 01/08/14 08:45 PM.

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Add: I heard on the radio show that Dr. Harley recommends post nuptials. Say for example if she has an affair, she loses custody, alimony and whatever you deem fit. Of course she has to agree to what goes in it. This is an awesome test of her commitment to recovery.
What show was that? Whenever I have heard Dr. Harley discuss postnuptials, he advises against them because it can be seen as punishment and hinders recovery.


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Originally Posted by Prisca
Quote
Add: I heard on the radio show that Dr. Harley recommends post nuptials. Say for example if she has an affair, she loses custody, alimony and whatever you deem fit. Of course she has to agree to what goes in it. This is an awesome test of her commitment to recovery.
What show was that? Whenever I have heard Dr. Harley discuss postnuptials, he advises against them because it can be seen as punishment and hinders recovery.

What I've heard is that Dr. Harley doesn't advocate postnuptual agreements as a condition of recovering the marriage. i.e., BH tells WW he will only take her back if she signs a postnuptual agreement giving him the majority of their property if they divorce. A few marriages here have done this, but Dr. Harley doesn't ratify it. I've even heard him tell women to go to their lawyers and get those agreements overturned/invalidated, because it will indeed hinder marital recovery because it prevents equality between the husband and wife.

Similarly Dr. H is not in favor of prenuptual agreements. They usually put one partner at a disadvantage and they prevent a complete "becoming one" financially.

Now an adultery agreement on the other hand, is something different. That would be a prenup or postnup where the condition is if there is a divorce for adultery (proved in court), the adulterer/ess loses out financially (getting nothing or some minimal percentage). That would be an adultery in the future, of course, not an ability to go back and divorce because of past adultery before the agreement. I don't think Dr. Harley recommends that per se but when asked about it he's said that yes he thinks it could be a good idea. (Honestly I suspect he'd like to see something like it put into law.)


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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Prisca
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Add: I heard on the radio show that Dr. Harley recommends post nuptials. Say for example if she has an affair, she loses custody, alimony and whatever you deem fit. Of course she has to agree to what goes in it. This is an awesome test of her commitment to recovery.
What show was that? Whenever I have heard Dr. Harley discuss postnuptials, he advises against them because it can be seen as punishment and hinders recovery.

What I've heard is that Dr. Harley doesn't advocate postnuptual agreements as a condition of recovering the marriage. i.e., BH tells WW he will only take her back if she signs a postnuptual agreement giving him the majority of their property if they divorce. A few marriages here have done this, but Dr. Harley doesn't ratify it. I've even heard him tell women to go to their lawyers and get those agreements overturned/invalidated, because it will indeed hinder marital recovery because it prevents equality between the husband and wife.

Similarly Dr. H is not in favor of prenuptual agreements. They usually put one partner at a disadvantage and they prevent a complete "becoming one" financially.

Now an adultery agreement on the other hand, is something different. That would be a prenup or postnup where the condition is if there is a divorce for adultery (proved in court), the adulterer/ess loses out financially (getting nothing or some minimal percentage). That would be an adultery in the future, of course, not an ability to go back and divorce because of past adultery before the agreement. I don't think Dr. Harley recommends that per se but when asked about it he's said that yes he thinks it could be a good idea. (Honestly I suspect he'd like to see something like it put into law.)

That's what I meant sorry I didn't come off clearer. He said if the reason for divorce was because of adultery. The agreement of course applies to the BS as well so one party isn't dominate over the other.

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Originally Posted by Prisca
Quote
Add: I heard on the radio show that Dr. Harley recommends post nuptials. Say for example if she has an affair, she loses custody, alimony and whatever you deem fit. Of course she has to agree to what goes in it. This is an awesome test of her commitment to recovery.
What show was that? Whenever I have heard Dr. Harley discuss postnuptials, he advises against them because it can be seen as punishment and hinders recovery.

I believe the adultery agreement/post up issue was discussed on blindsighted and dumbman's call...


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Yep, but we have adult children, and the post nup only covers in the event of a future A. Plus there isn't much remaining in the coffers after the A, so Dr. H felt that it was fair for me to potentially get everything if we had to later D and I had to move and start over yet again.

Dr. H also pointed out that post nups must be created with a separate attorney representing each person to protect from future overturning in court.


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I thought of you when I heard this show. The WW is unwilling to give up Facebook after her affair.

Radio Clip on Facebook


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Originally Posted by BlindSighted2013
Yep, but we have adult children, and the post nup only covers in the event of a future A. Plus there isn't much remaining in the coffers after the A, so Dr. H felt that it was fair for me to potentially get everything if we had to later D and I had to move and start over yet again.

Dr. H also pointed out that post nups must be created with a separate attorney representing each person to protect from future overturning in court.

Here it is.
Originally Posted by BrainHurts


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Thank you!


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anyone know anything about borderline personality disorder? That is the clinical diagnosis my wife received today. Trying to weigh the diagnosis with my reality. Don't know what to expect for recovery now.

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Originally Posted by carsandkidz
anyone know anything about borderline personality disorder? That is the clinical diagnosis my wife received today. Trying to weigh the diagnosis with my reality. Don't know what to expect for recovery now.

Cars, can you email Dr. Harley with this update? I know he has dealt with a number of personality disorders before in his clinical practice. He's pretty good at keeping the focus on the marriage rather than letting the disorders turn into a helpless situation.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Cars,

My DW was also recently dx with borderline personality disorder and it very much contributed to her affairs. It was one of the primary conditions that led to them. She absolutely has to have it treated as a condition of recovery.

***********EDIT**************

Last edited by Denali; 01/14/14 08:48 AM. Reason: TOS

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I emailed Dr Harley. Joyce called me this morning, asked some questions and wanted me on their show again. I was unable to participate due to a work engagement but I received an email from her stating it was brought up in the show today. I haven't had a chance to listen to the show yet, interested in seeing the good Dr's perspective.

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I just heard the show. Forgive my blunt attitude but he basically said your WW's diagnosis is baloney and you need to follow the program or more affairs are in your future. I get what your going through, you love your wife. Stop protecting her, she is an adult who made the choice of an affair. She has the rare opportunity for JC and is bartering with you while your going through the worst time of your life. She lacks empathy and your enabling her by being passive and not following the program.

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Originally Posted by carsandkidz
anyone know anything about borderline personality disorder? That is the clinical diagnosis my wife received today. Trying to weigh the diagnosis with my reality. Don't know what to expect for recovery now.

Theres a lot of dispute in the professional medical field about BPD.
My in laws are all convinced my ww has it.
One of my in laws is a practicing psychiatrist!

But Harley says he rarely diagnosed someone as BPD.
On a show a few months ago, he discussed BPD and you can find it here:

Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
MB Radio Link:

(second part, near end); Dr Harley addresses a caller whose wife was diagnosed with BPD. she is having an affair and move in with her boyfriend.
Dr Harley said BPD is controversial in the scientific community and states that a primary symptom is self mutilation. He said if the patient is not self
Mutilating he questions the validity of the diagnosis:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=0479#


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http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2685594&page=4

Heres a thread about personality disorders and BPD that Harley has discussed on his radio show:


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Originally Posted by TranquilDark
I just heard the show. Forgive my blunt attitude but he basically said your WW's diagnosis is baloney and you need to follow the program or more affairs are in your future. I get what your going through, you love your wife. Stop protecting her, she is an adult who made the choice of an affair. She has the rare opportunity for JC and is bartering with you while your going through the worst time of your life. She lacks empathy and your enabling her by being passive and not following the program.

hurray *like*


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Two thumbs up, TD!


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It's interesting that this diagnosis is quickly discounted as a crutch and I must be protecting her.

I fought the diagnosis, as did she until we really researched the disorder(which is a very real, very serious mental illness). My wife was/is crushed by the diagnosis, as she thought she was normal, for the most part, in her decision making/emotional processes. This disorder means our marriage is almost assured to fail strictly because if she gets what she wants- a happy, healthy, loving relationship- she will destroy it by default. That is a big pill to swallow. Add to that it means she is truly mentally ill, not just depressed, and her world was turned upside down.

For those that think this is a crutch people use to avoid responsibility, our understanding of her condition means that our marriage problems are now completely her fault. She has accepted this as part of accepting her illness. We sat down and worked through the EN questionaire, with quite a bit of difficulty on her part, and I'm meeting all of her needs, she wasn't meeting mine but is trying to. We also finally set up EP's. Her willingness on the EP's was easy because she truly wants to save our marriage and for us to do that, she can't trust what she thinks any more because she doesn't act/react the right way(I know, neither does anyone else that cheats).

The answer to my question about where I go from here was answered through all of this- We continue down the path with SAA. Follow the program but add more work she has to do to learn to understand her emotions, learn to act/react the right way and learn self control.

I think this might be my last post on my situation for a while. We started moving today, have tons to unpack and a book to read together.

Thanks again for all of the information, advice and guidance. It has been irreplaceable.

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