Excellent - this is what Elaina needs to hear.


Good - you sound like you are listening a little more now, so I hope you will be following up on these recommendations. It's the hope that Elaina needs.

I have been in a situation that is an awful lot like yours, and I probably have a pretty good idea of how you are feeling.

The solution is for you to take the lead in eliminating the abusive behaviors. Don't ever let her Love Busters become an excuse for you to not eliminate yours. It is imperative that if one person breaks the MB rules, the spouse doesn't respond by becoming demanding, disrespectful, or angry.

BTW, as you are reading Love Busters, look for the answer to this question:
What is Dr. Harley's recommended way for a couple to exchange information about Love Busters that occur?

Woooo hooo! Some words of encouragement!! Thanks!!

I don't think anybody knows that better than me, to be frank. But Steve Harley's comment to me was "Don't expect to be praised for eliminating Love Busters. People typically don't go around blowing a trumpet and singing their own praises for the fact that they stopped being disrespectful and angry toward their wife." The real success comes when you have established safety and are finally able to provide care (meet emotional needs). When your wife is consistently safe from you and you are meeting her emotional needs consistently you will get a lot of admiration from her, and probably quite a bit from us.


Don't ask us to cut you any slack, Ernie. Ask us to hold you accountable.

"Gradualism in theory is perpetuity in practice." What that means is, if you aim at making gradual improvement, things will stay the same, so you need to aim at perfection. It's the only way to make even gradual improvement possible.

Taking this seriously requires reaching for the absolute standard: NO love busters.

This analogy was basically a way of saying that the disrespect you show your wife isn't so bad. It's a minor thing, like speeding.

That's a big part of the problem, here. You think disrespect is a minor thing. It's not like speeding - it's a major thing.

Don't try to persuade people that your offenses aren't so bad. Instead, learn how to eliminate your offending behavior, like the rest of us have done or are doing.


This is an argument for some tolerance for some love busters in marriage. Dr. Harley's position is that if you don't eliminate the love busters, your marriage doesn't stand a chance. And he's right!

Don't do like I did, Ernie - I posted here for three years before I finally took the problem seriously and decided that Prisca should not have to put up with an occasional love buster from me.

Dr Harley describes anger as enormously destructive to a marriage. He says that other problems cannot be dealt with if anger is present.

To post your analogy correctly: anger is as serious as murder to a marriage.In fact, it IS murder to a marriage..

If you will read Love Busters closely, any attempt to punish your spouse is classified by Dr. Harley as an angry outburst.

Given that you were giving your wife grief over what she posted here, I would say you still have a way to go on eliminating angry outbursts.

Selfish Demands, Disrespectful Judgments, and Angry Outbursts are all a continuum or spectrum of abusive behavior. Frequently one leads right into the other. Sometimes a behavior might be on the border and we might debate about which of the three it really is - but a more productive thing to do is to eliminate all three.

Yes!

Ernie, you need to start regarding your demands, disrespect, and anger as more like murder than like speeding. That is what "taking it seriously" means. It is serious, and not a thing to be minimized. Demands, disrespect, and anger will KILL a marriage.

I think you forgot to add "...no matter how small".

That has been one of the hardest concepts for me to grasp. I had always just assumed small ones were going to happen no matter what and are unavoidable, so they didn't belong in the same category as the large ones.

That's right, Ernie. You're starting to see how important this is.

(Find a time to listen to that radio show every day. You need to have a lot of exposure to this thinking to get these ideas fully accepted in your mind - that way, your logic and your reasoning and your understanding will be able to give you a reason to override your emotions when you are feeling emotional and wanting to let loose with demands, disrespect, or anger.)

This is exceptionally good advice!

I think so, too - it's a blatant rip-off from Dr. Harley's son, Steve Harley, who told me exactly that on a paid call.

Passed along to you for free.

Thanks to everyone who has made an effort to give me good advice on helping me save my marriage. I do appreciate all you have done, and I am grateful.

Goodbye.

That kind of sounds like the opposite of my suggestion:


http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2777262#Post2777262

I can't see any reason why you should be bidding the board goodbye if you are still planning to do the work.

I was thinking of maybe just being a "lurker" or "viewer" instead of posting further. I still plan to do the work, but I'd rather leave gracefully before I get banned. My wife saw this and text'd me a little after noon and said "I don't want you to give up the MB forum".

I haven't decided yet if staying here as a poster is a good idea or not. I want to honor my wife's wishes, and I get some really good advice... but at the same time it still feels very hostile being here. I find my self being very drained and pulled down far more than energized and lifted up after being on here... that isn't helpful to me, though. (Especially after the "tush-reaming" I got from the DCMA guys today, it will be a while before I untuck my tail from between my legs... we are a poster child for workplace hostility, here at this aerospace place).

People tend to gravitate towards the things that help them up and shy away from the things that tear them down, so that is why I am debating on whether I should stay here (as a poster) or not. It is difficult to feel like I should continue on here when I feel perpetually torn down.

I got up to page 45 in LB yesterday afternoon, I am fixin' to leave work now and go read some more.

Ernie,

I have family in the aerospace industry too. So I can understand a bit about the frustrations there.

Please stay and get help. I'm fairly new, but I have seen progress in your posts since you have been here. Markos, among many others, is here and willing to help you. But you must take the first steps to change.

Please show your wife respectful support as she posts in the forum. She needs to hear that from you, and she needs to see it.

You can do this!

I too have seen progress from the beginning of your thread as well.

***EDIT***

LTL

What about emailing Dr. Harley?
Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

And we don't want you to leave either.

You are not in jeopardy of being banned. Bans are not initiated at the "suggestion" of members.

If the moderators have a concern with your posts, they will usually contact you via email to personally discuss any issues.

And , just as a reminder to ALL members-- be SURE we have a current, working email address for you. UPDATE your email addresses!!
Thank you,

JustUss

You are forgetting that entirely aside from the punishment handed out that speeding sometimes hurts people. If you speed on the road, you might kill. If you abuse in your marriage (even if it is unintentional!) you might kill it.

Separation is not a punishment, it is taking your 'license' to comunicate off you for a while to make sure you don't kill your wife's love for you.



I think this is the heart of the matter. You seem to think you should have the same PoV, which is impossible. This is where your lack of perception lies which is causing all this 'speeding'.

Men and women see EVERYTHING very, very differently! Elaina's perspective is hugely valuable because it tells you what not only what SHE thinks, but how importantly SHE rates it.

But most of all Elaina's perpective is opposite which means she can see all the things in YOUR blind spot.

I found the hot dog story very interesting. How you didn't see that a hot dog rolling was a big deal, but that she sees the need for more calm and control in your responses.

She is capable of seeing things you cannot. Just as you can see all the things she cannot. That's PoJA.

Remember:

Elaina is a DIFFERENT person to you!
She has different thoughts, feelings and perceptions!
These differences must be RESPECTED, ok?
When you get really advanced, you move on to valuing her differences, but baby steps...