I used to be pretty optimistic. I used to think most people were basically good. Now I know that most people are at best basically selfish, and a good many are just plain evil. I used to think most parents put their children's needs first - now I know that it is extremely common to desert your children for a lover. That woman who rolled her car into the lake with her two children in it because her lover didn't want kids was on the extreme end, obviously, but apparently it is extremely common to kill your children's hearts for the sake of an OP. I have learned that no matter how well or how long you know someone, no one can be trusted.<P>I had wanted my kids to grow up feeling loved, being able to trust, and being optimistic. Now I feel that even if that were possible, I would be doing them a disservice to encourage that. At best, they will believe that a father is not necessary, that you can grow up ok without one - so if they ever feel dissatisfied with their spouse, why would they hesistate to dump them? At worst, they are going to grow up feeling abandoned by their father and with no hope for the future, and will have learned that you should take what you want and not worry about hurting other people.

Nellie, I think that is what is wrong with tour society. It has been shown that "you can take what you want and worry about hurting other people." I think that is waht is happening today. I know I still can figure out what is happening. I don't understand how a person can go of the deepend like my H and do the things he has done. It goes against everything we both were taught, the way we brought up our own children. I wish I could make sense of it for both of us. But don't ever feel that you are doing your children a disservice in bring them up to care, trust , and being optimistic. Because they are the one that will show the right way to be, the right way to feel and the right way to love. They are in the right and they will be stronger for it. THey know it is wrong what is happening to them so they will do the right thing later. We can't fix aeveryone but we can teach out children the right way and hope and pray that they in turn do right and teach their children the right way and some day this world will be better. Don't give up My prayers are for you and your children. <BR>My daughter (23) says even though she doesn't understand her father she is still glad he taught her to have faith and be truthful, even though now he has lost his faith and lies.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Oh so true. Life, most definitely, is not fair.

Nellie1 -- I am afraid that I can't argue with your post, because I think in a lot of ways you are exactly right. It is a shame that the world today has such low morals.<P>I will offer you my prayers in the hope that it will help to sooth your pain.<P>God Bless

Nellie, I agree with you totally. Instead of feeling stronger, living thru this just makes me distrust everyone. I wonder what my son is feeling? I was so sure I was giving him the life I didn't have growing up, the security, the trust in people, but my H took that with him when he left. He took something precious from us, and I don't know if time will ever bring it back. I see myself reacting in selfish ways too,now. It's the backlash of being hurt so badly.<BR><BR>Think I will just live with my dogs and cats, at least they offer unconditional love.

Nellie,<BR> I feel the same pain that you do. I think I lived in this glass house thinking that because I was a good person everyone else was too. But since we are all here under these circumstances I see basicly its not. But don't color your childrens views. Teach thay life has some disadvantage and its rough ot there.

Nellie,<BR>Your children know that they can trust, love and care for others and they have a wonderful example of this in you. Unfortunately it is a lesson in how not to treat people that they have also learnt, and they are the ones who will decide on the course their lives will take. Havung lived through their father's betrayal of so much they believed in, they will perhaps choose more wisely than we did...but again who could have predicted that these men would go off into the deep end.<P>Sometimes I am still so angry at the bizarre behaviour, but I have accepted this and now I just want him to stop playing Prince Charming with his OW and have him stop "justifying" his actions to his children. One of my sons states that he never wants children as the responsibility is just too much and the price of this is just too high!!!! This is the lesson he has learnt!!<BR>Oh the damage they do needlessly to the kids to make themselves look good while we are burdened by all the responsibility in addition to dealing with the messes left behind by them.<BR>All 3 of my sons state that they would never treat their wife the way in which their father treated me, so a lesson has been learnt in what is not acceptable to the one you profess to love and have been with for so long<BR>The desert Island looks even better today....are you ready to go? (we can all fantasize)<p>[This message has been edited by willbok99 (edited November 07, 1999).]

When my H cheated, I took our three young children with me as I cruised the area looking for her car, sitting outside her house... okay, yes.... stalking her. I listened to the tape she gave my H (Chicago is the group - thanks for ruining my love of their music OW) and my kids had to listen to that too. They listened to my wails and tears, my rants and everything in between. In short, I gave them far more to worry about than their father did, I think. Luckily, they were VERY young, but my oldest, who was about 5 at the time remembers well. She lost respect for her father right then and there. <P>So, you can imagine her disguist when I, 13 or so years later, had an affair with someone. She basically told me that she would never forgive me. Guess what? I did it anyway , and she has forgiven me, but... all three of my kids are so disillusioned about life in general, and marriage specifically, that I have one who never wants to get married, one who believes that you should be 35 before you get married (not a bad idea, by the way) and one who justs wants the HELL outta here to live her own stress-free life (I'd laugh at that one if it didn't hurt so much - never NO STRESS, oh well).<P>Life indeed is not fair. Especially to kids when they have selfish, self-centered, confused parents who married too young, don't understand the concept of monogomy, and are flying by the seat of their emotions. No, life is not fair.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited November 07, 1999).]

Hi Nellie,<P> You are right, life isn't fair and the only one we can trust or control is ourselves.Your kids are seeing you stay the course and being there for them...they will remember this don't worry. My father's father abandoned his family when he was young and my father was raised by his mother who had a tough road but did the best she could.My father turned out to be the best father EVER and one of the most kind ,loving people. Your kids can't count on your H but they can count on YOU.....Lu

SDS,<BR>Unfortunately my oldest daughters have nothing nice to say about him. My oldest one is convinced that he must have always been like this, but just hid his true character well, and my 17 year old gets angry if I even bring up his name. She says she no longer has a father.<P>Patient,<BR>I think I could cope better if it were some random act - if a tree had fallen on him, I would think that life was not fair - but to know that a good person can turn bad instantaneously makes it impossible to have any relationships of any depth.<P>Empty Shell,<BR>I always thought that no matter how bad the world was, at least my H was a good person.<P>ATW,<BR>I will never be able to trust anyone again. If I were ever to have a relationship with anyone, every time he seemed distant, or unhappy, or even quieter than usual I would assume he was thinking about leaving. And I know that trying to communicate doesn't work - I asked my H many times even before the affair, when he seemed withdrawn or unhappy, what was wrong, was he upset with me, and each time he denied that anything was wrong, or claimed he just wasn't feeling well or something. I do not understand why he would purposely hide information that would have allowed me to change something to make him happier. It is like he was trying to lull me into a false sense of security, just so he could hurt me as much as possible by leaving without warning. The only other alternative explanation was that he really wasn't blaming me for his unhappiness at the time, and it wasn't until the time of the affair that he suddenly decided I was the cause of his unhappiness. If that is the case, it means that in any relationship, you can wake up one morning at the other person can feel completely differently about you, based only on what else is going on in his life, and that the only way to help ensure that he will stay is to make sure that nothing bad happens to him, which is of course impossible. <P>The only way to make sure that your life is not destroyed is by never giving away your heart.<P>Sometimes I wonder if the OW's behavior is a result of her ex-husband hurting her. I don't know which one of them was the betrayer, but I am sure one of them was.<P>Spicey,<BR>It is one thing to teach your children that not everyone is a good person - that is only common sense. But the kids have learned that a person who is good today can not be counted on to be good tomorrow.<P>Willbok,<BR>My son just says he is never going to get married, because he doesn't want to run the risk of doing to his wife what his father has done to me.<P>Yes, the desert island is looking very good.<P>new_beginning,<BR>My two oldest children are very glad to be out of the house, where they can at least ignore the problems. They certainly haven't claimed their lives are stress-free though - just the opposite.<P>My H told my eldest as justification for his actions that he was young and made a mistake marrying me. He was thirty at the time. I suppose he could use that as an excuse for the failure of his first marriage, when he was twenty-one and she was about the same age, but thirty?<P>He told me the day before he left that he couldn't help his emotions. Apparently he also had no control over whether he acted on them or not.<P>Lu,<BR>But how do they know they can count on me? They thought they could count on their father, too. How do I even know if I can count on myself? If my H could go nuts, maybe I could too.<P>