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No dates tonight, the roads are too bad after snowmagedon part four here in STL. So I'm just chilling with the puppy tonight. My date with KAREN will be postponed until Friday probably. We've been texting back and forth most of the evening thus far though. AMY is giving me indicators that she wants a quiet night to herself so I'm leaving her be and letting her initiate conversion.
Age - 35
Divorce Final - 3/5/12
S - 13
S - 10
D - 8
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Sounds like a nice smoochy time with Amy, TC! I have some thoughts after re-reading your thread:
Here's my take on dude #2: this other guy had probably been emailing/texting for a while but hadn't bothered to meet her in person. (This is annoying if she wanted to meet him). He isn't too interested in her, but she's interested in him. So when he finally asked her out, she was excited and enjoyed herself. In the meantime she'd been seeing you and knows you're more interested in her than dude #2.
So until dude #2 falls on his face and she realizes he's not really into her, she will probably keep hope alive for him. I'm sure this will be soon, because if she's smart (you said she is), and he doesn't keep the momentum going (which he probably won't) you'll easily win the day vs. him.
HOWEVER, she brought up distance/moving to you. This makes me nervous. Here's why: when two people are both very interested in each other, their brains focus on what they have in common, everything 'alike' they are. If she is focusing on where you live v. where she lives - even though you are assuring her - this means her heart is divided. My advice here is to be aware and know that sometimes women say things that seem very subtle, but are actually 'everything.'
I realize you want to see her regardless of the complications. The tricky part is, they are your complications (especially the children) and they are familiar to you (i.e. not as scary, being known). But to her, they may loom very large. Giving her assurance of your desire to continue is wonderful! But these are big decisions for her and she'll need to sort out her willingness on her own.
The 'pulling back from kissing and out of the blue' cracks me up a little bit: we ladies always have things on our minds! Even when kissing - which may be pretty focused for the gent - we could have a million ideas rolling around our heads, concerns and questions that just can't wait any longer. And sometimes that intimacy brings it all to the surface.
My $.02 - guard your heart. She is very hesitant. I'm trying to guard it. It's tough... I really like her. That said, I'm being realistic and know this could end quickly. She says she makes her decisions fast and thus I can see everything changing on a dime. But she needs to make her own decision about whether she can enter into something with me. She said she takes dating at this point in her life seriously which I think means if she can't picture our lives together, then she'll end it. I'm flexible so it's not a big deal for me to uproot and do something different but not everyone is like that. Also, when I dated my ex, I had no kids and she had two so I know what position she's coming from.
Age - 35
Divorce Final - 3/5/12
S - 13
S - 10
D - 8
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A while later she pulled back and out of the blue said she was never going to move to my town (about 35 min away). I wasn't surprised by this declaration and told her that I knew. She seemed shocked... asked if it was a deal breaker. I told her no and that I knew her life was up in St Louis. We talked a bit about that and the kids; after that was done we got back to cuddling and kissing for the rest of the evening. I think I found the root of all this. She is single, hasn't dated much and my life is full of complications. I'm a dad of three kids and have an ex to whom I was married to for twelve years. I have a home I own in a town she never wants to live in. These are a lot to process. I talked to her about it in brief, let her know that I wanted to see her regardless of these complications and that I wasn't worried at this point. One thing at a time.  It's interesting that her not wanting to move to your town is what she blurted out - it tells me that she has thought about what it would be like to have a long-term relationship with you, and also that she has other reservations that she hasn't communicated to you yet. Does she mean she never wants to leave St. Louis or is there somewhere in the middle where you might be able to compromise? How often do you have your kids? Has she talked about whether she wants to have kids of her own? If she doesn't want kids at all, how does she feel about stepchildren? I know it might be early to talk about whether she wants to be a stepmother, but she is the one who brought up not wanting to move to your town! We sort of talked about it. I don't think the kids are conceptually a road block; she says she doesn't mind and she's been talking to her sister about what it would like to be a step mother. I have my kids half the time and she says that me being s good dad is part of the reason she's attracted to me. That said, I think the location thing is bigger for her. I don't know why but... I'm not anchored to where I live so it's not a biggie. A house can be rented or sold if need be.
Age - 35
Divorce Final - 3/5/12
S - 13
S - 10
D - 8
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I'm trying to guard it. It's tough... I really like her. That said, I'm being realistic and know this could end quickly. She says she makes her decisions fast and thus I can see everything changing on a dime. But she needs to make her own decision about whether she can enter into something with me. She said she takes dating at this point in her life seriously which I think means if she can't picture our lives together, then she'll end it. I'm flexible so it's not a big deal for me to uproot and do something different but not everyone is like that. Also, when I dated my ex, I had no kids and she had two so I know what position she's coming from. My fingers are still crossed for Amy! I'm glad she takes dating seriously - that's a good sign. And that you understand her position is really good - I'll bet she senses your empathy. Question: do you call Amy? I know we ladies are all different, but I really like it when a guy calls me. Especially after a smooching session, it makes me feel secure and cared for. Plus I like being flirty-texted. But that's just me.  We're sitting under 10 inches of snow here too, TC! No work today, hopefully none tomorrow. Of course, the kiddos are out of school, so they're happy.
"When you love someone, all your saved up wishes start coming out."
Elizabeth Bowen
(Changed my profile name, as it was appearing in Google searches. Yikes!)
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tc, are you still 'talking' to other women? She is single, hasn't dated much and my life is full of complications. That she hasn't dated much...it is good that she is seeing what is out there. I would just enjoy your dates with her without expectations...maybe something will develop but it is VERY early to start wondering about kids, etc. Yeah for kissing!!!   Oh I agree! Light and easy right? I promise... I didn't bring it up but if she does, we have that conversation. And yes, I'm still talking to KAREN. I learned my lesson... as long as she's seeing other guys I will probably keep seeing others but I will be exclusive with her in a heart beat if she expresses an interest in that.
Age - 35
Divorce Final - 3/5/12
S - 13
S - 10
D - 8
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I'm trying to guard it. It's tough... I really like her. That said, I'm being realistic and know this could end quickly. She says she makes her decisions fast and thus I can see everything changing on a dime. But she needs to make her own decision about whether she can enter into something with me. She said she takes dating at this point in her life seriously which I think means if she can't picture our lives together, then she'll end it. I'm flexible so it's not a big deal for me to uproot and do something different but not everyone is like that. Also, when I dated my ex, I had no kids and she had two so I know what position she's coming from. My fingers are still crossed for Amy! I'm glad she takes dating seriously - that's a good sign. And that you understand her position is really good - I'll bet she senses your empathy. Question: do you call Amy? I know we ladies are all different, but I really like it when a guy calls me. Especially after a smooching session, it makes me feel secure and cared for. Plus I like being flirty-texted. But that's just me. We're sitting under 10 inches of snow here too, TC! No work today, hopefully none tomorrow. Of course, the kiddos are out of school, so they're happy. We do talk on the phone but not today. I definitely felt she was needing a day to herself so I kept texting sparse. I think I'll call her tomorrow or Thursday if she's not overly busy. And I'll give the flirty texts a whirl!
Age - 35
Divorce Final - 3/5/12
S - 13
S - 10
D - 8
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After the date, I drove her home. The car ride was more... tense. When I walked her to her door she turned around after opening it, hugged me and then kissed me! It was really, really wonderful. We agreed to see each other again and then I drove my happy butt home. [/quote] I haven't told AMY I'm not going to see anyone else; I don't know if that would be a good idea at this point but I couldn't in good conscience see other women when I just want to date her. We're going to see each other next week sometime; date/time/location to be determined as of yet. I'm really looking forward to it! Now I just need to figure out how to "play it cool." Ooh that strikes me as a very masculine thing to do. A woman would probably wait until the exclusivity was agreed upon before getting rid of the other suitors. Not a criticism though. Since you are the one doing the wooing you would know that you can't realistically divide your efforts when you like one girl a lot more. I know everyone is different but I personally get the "fight or flight" response when a guy gets too mushy early on! I would prefer to go with the flow for a little bit... If it is genuinely presented cheerfully and as a pressure-free option "but I will be OK with a no" then I like it. If someone likes you a lot, what's wrong in knowing that? Even more so if the 'no' is accepted cheerfully - that makes me want to say yes! It's the man's move to say the word 'exclusive' too in my very old fashioned opinion. I do know what you mean by fight or flight though. I did get a very pressured approach from one guy who I didn't even like, we were not even dating. He wanted me to move to London because he was! Then when I said I didn't like London he got all whiny and "but, but, but". There is a way to be confident and go for it without pressure. Don't worry about too fast either. Dr H says if by the fifth date you've found the person there is no real need to feel pressure to keep searching. Isn't she your no5 too?! I'm not ready to give up on AMY yet but directly competing with another man for a woman is not something I've done before. My gut is in knots and I'm kind of a mess right now. I'd be friends to keep your hat in the ring. It does suck though. I'm going to be fun and kiss the hell out of her if she lets me. Oh you'll be fine. Does anyone wonder if Amy was just making herself the more assertive partner in the relationship in these early stages by pulling away and seeing if TC would continue in pursuit? No it's natural for the man to be in pursuit. It takes longer for women to 'feel' it. The male needs are met more quickly.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Does anyone wonder if Amy was just making herself the more assertive partner in the relationship in these early stages by pulling away and seeing if TC would continue in pursuit? No it's natural for the man to be in pursuit. It takes longer for women to 'feel' it. The male needs are met more quickly. I agree with this. I like it when the man pursues, brings up exclusivity, etc. It helps me solidify my feelings for him. If he is hesitant or wishy-washy, I usually feel the same way about him...strange but true. Unfortunately for the gents, just because he pursues doesn't mean I want him. (sorry) But if I've accepted date #2, then he's got a really good shot at winning my affections. And date #3 is usually the make-or-break-it point for me.
"When you love someone, all your saved up wishes start coming out."
Elizabeth Bowen
(Changed my profile name, as it was appearing in Google searches. Yikes!)
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Does anyone wonder if Amy was just making herself the more assertive partner in the relationship in these early stages by pulling away and seeing if TC would continue in pursuit? No it's natural for the man to be in pursuit. It takes longer for women to 'feel' it. The male needs are met more quickly. I agree with this. I like it when the man pursues, brings up exclusivity, etc. It helps me solidify my feelings for him. If he is hesitant or wishy-washy, I usually feel the same way about him...strange but true. Unfortunately for the gents, just because he pursues doesn't mean I want him. (sorry) But if I've accepted date #2, then he's got a really good shot at winning my affections. And date #3 is usually the make-or-break-it point for me. I agree but I think in this case it is different. I'd love to bring up exclusivity however she doesn't appear ready for that. That's ok but it's a weird no-man's land I feel like I'm in sometimes. I'd rather just date her but I feel like if I do and she continues to date other men, I'm insanely vulnerable. I don't know why that is. I do know I need to talk to her about it at some point; I can't do this for more than a few weeks.
Age - 35
Divorce Final - 3/5/12
S - 13
S - 10
D - 8
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I've rescheduled by date with KAREN to this evening. I'm pretty excited about it as we've had really great conversations including last night via text. She's an absolute riot and cute as heck so that's a bonus. I'll let you kind folks know how it goes as always. I followed up on the suggestion regarding the flirty texts to AMY this morning; told her I really liked snuggling with and kissing her; I'll be thinking of doing exactly that all day! She responded positively. I called her real quick on my way to an appointment since she said she wasn't at work yet; she didn't answer so I left her a brief voicemail wishing her a great day.
Age - 35
Divorce Final - 3/5/12
S - 13
S - 10
D - 8
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We do talk on the phone but not today. I definitely felt she was needing a day to herself so I kept texting sparse. I think I'll call her tomorrow or Thursday if she's not overly busy. And I'll give the flirty texts a whirl! I'm glad you called her! (At least, I like it when boys call me) Hopefully she'll call you back today "in good faith." If so, I think that's a good sign. You said she "responded positively" to your flirty text. Do you mind telling (in general) what she said? Was it a smiley face, or a real text saying "me too" or something like that? If I'm not sure about the guy, I'll just 'wink' or send a 'you're so sweet.' If I really like him, I'll say something flirty in return (usually I raise the bar a little, to keep the conversation going). Just my $.02. Amy is clearly my favorite (not that it matters what I think!) But I look forward to hearing more about your date with Karen. She might be even "awesomer" than Amy in real life - you never know!
"When you love someone, all your saved up wishes start coming out."
Elizabeth Bowen
(Changed my profile name, as it was appearing in Google searches. Yikes!)
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tc, are you still 'talking' to other women? She is single, hasn't dated much and my life is full of complications. That she hasn't dated much...it is good that she is seeing what is out there. I would just enjoy your dates with her without expectations...maybe something will develop but it is VERY early to start wondering about kids, etc. Yeah for kissing!!! As usual, I agree with br!! lol How many dates have you been on with Amy again? I think it's great to have support for dating, it's definitely challenging and crazy sometimes. But you can overthink and over analyze things at times and take the fun out of it. Just go with the flow and try to relax!
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Sure! I sent her:
"So I have something I have to confess... I need to get it off my chest. Here it is:
I really like kissing and snuggling with you! I have this feeling that I'm going to be thinking about kissing you quite a bit today. :-)
Good morning!"
She replied back with:
":). I like kissing and snuggling with you too."
Age - 35
Divorce Final - 3/5/12
S - 13
S - 10
D - 8
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tc, are you still 'talking' to other women? She is single, hasn't dated much and my life is full of complications. That she hasn't dated much...it is good that she is seeing what is out there. I would just enjoy your dates with her without expectations...maybe something will develop but it is VERY early to start wondering about kids, etc. Yeah for kissing!!! As usual, I agree with br!! lol How many dates have you been on with Amy again? I think it's great to have support for dating, it's definitely challenging and crazy sometimes. But you can overthink and over analyze things at times and take the fun out of it. Just go with the flow and try to relax! Oh, I'm having fun, trust me. I'm enjoying every minute with her. It's the times I'm not that I appreciate the opinion of others. I tend to over think things and you guys talk me down... lol. I've been on four dates with AMY so far with another tentatively scheduled for this weekend.
Age - 35
Divorce Final - 3/5/12
S - 13
S - 10
D - 8
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Sure! I sent her:
"So I have something I have to confess... I need to get it off my chest. Here it is:
I really like kissing and snuggling with you! I have this feeling that I'm going to be thinking about kissing you quite a bit today. :-)
Good morning!"
She replied back with:
":). I like kissing and snuggling with you too." Well, that's fairly promising, depending upon the rest of the conversation. I love flirty texting, it's so much fun! I hope it continues.
"When you love someone, all your saved up wishes start coming out."
Elizabeth Bowen
(Changed my profile name, as it was appearing in Google searches. Yikes!)
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Here's a thought, again, just my $.02: As a woman, I am never surprised when a man tells me he enjoys kissing and snuggling with me (SF). But if he tells me he enjoys my personality, my heart, my thoughts or my character? Then I'm smitten. Men who are physically attracted to me are a $.10/dozen. Men who recognize other great qualities are the ones I am most attracted to. The ones who ask me what I think, or are interested in me as a person? Those are the ones who are able to capture my heart. This is just a conversation. By no means do I think you're only telling Amy you're sexually attracted to her! 
"When you love someone, all your saved up wishes start coming out."
Elizabeth Bowen
(Changed my profile name, as it was appearing in Google searches. Yikes!)
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Here's a thought, again, just my $.02: As a woman, I am never surprised when a man tells me he enjoys kissing and snuggling with me (SF). But if he tells me he enjoys my personality, my heart, my thoughts or my character? Then I'm smitten. Men who are physically attracted to me are a $.10/dozen. Men who recognize other great qualities are the ones I am most attracted to. The ones who ask me what I think, or are interested in me as a person? Those are the ones who are able to capture my heart. This is just a conversation. By no means do I think you're only telling Amy you're sexually attracted to her! Yup, that is something to keep in mind for sure. I think I'm doing a good job of this but I'll keep at it. Definitely not just telling her that I think she's attractive!
Age - 35
Divorce Final - 3/5/12
S - 13
S - 10
D - 8
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Here's a thought, again, just my $.02:
As a woman, I am never surprised when a man tells me he enjoys kissing and snuggling with me (SF). But if he tells me he enjoys my personality, my heart, my thoughts or my character? Then I'm smitten. Kissing & snuggling is Affection Zhamila, not sexual fulfilment. just my 2 eurocent
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Here's a thought, again, just my $.02:
As a woman, I am never surprised when a man tells me he enjoys kissing and snuggling with me (SF). But if he tells me he enjoys my personality, my heart, my thoughts or my character? Then I'm smitten. Kissing & snuggling is Affection Zhamila, not sexual fulfilment. just my 2 eurocent Good point, Gerold...I guess that depends on what KIND of kissing & snuggling we're talking about! To me, affection is saying sweet things, getting a hug, flowers, reading me a poem, etc. In fact, Dr. Harley says affection is similar to what a person gives a pet or a child. It's completely non-sexual, and in fact for many women, affection loses its charm when it becomes sexual. But I'm sure every girl is different in how she'd like affection to be expressed.
"When you love someone, all your saved up wishes start coming out."
Elizabeth Bowen
(Changed my profile name, as it was appearing in Google searches. Yikes!)
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Alright, here's the update for all those who are following. AMY did call me back about thirty minutes before I had to leave on my date with KAREN. We talked about our days and make more solid plans for Saturday morning. I wonder if she's just that busy or if she's reducing me to a less ideal billing because of the other guy. Not really worried, just an idle thought. Either way, I had a great time talking to her and told her so. Texted her after and told her I really like what a great listener she is. In regard to KAREN, the date was phenomenal. This woman is a female version of me. The same humor, the same level of sarcasm, the same odd thought patterns, the same interests, etc. It was eerily cool and sexy to be honest. We had coffee and then went out to dinner. The date lasted about five hours and wow. Just wow. She kissed me at the end and that was amazing too. We kissed for quite a bit actually. We're seeing each other again on Friday night and I'm really excited about it. If the fireworks are the same then and AMY drops the other guy, this could get really complicated for me. What a great night regardless!
Age - 35
Divorce Final - 3/5/12
S - 13
S - 10
D - 8
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