Hi,

I've had a rough couple of days. My wife had a buddhist spiritual awakening on a retreat we went on over christmas. She is still going through it to some extent. She wants to seperate because she knows that her path forward is now alone. she has become herself and intuitively knows this is her path and I must find my path and walk it. if they cross at a later time then they cross. if they don't they don't.

I'd like to point out: Both my wife and I agree, we were blissfully happy up until her experience. we love each other. I cannot express to you enough how good our marriage was. This is why I am reaching out. I do not have a situation of seperation because of unhappiness or any of the normal reasons. All I know now is that even though she loves me she feels her path takes her away from our marriage. she must be alone in solitude. there is no room for discussion at all. her insight has shown her the true path and that is that.

I'd like to caveat any responses for now by saying i'm not interested in responses about how she is probably cheating or has a man or any of that. I know it's not true. Until something says otherwise it's not worth going through the emotional anguish of reading it. so please don't comment.

I would like to hear from anyone who has had this experience or been through this situation. I would like to hope that this is not the end. I fervently want to keep our marriage together.

thanks in advance. apologies if it is a ramble.

Well it sounds like you only want to hear advice that you pre-approve of,,,,

I dont think I can help you

Were the two of you following a Marriage Builders path?

Following the Policy of Joint Agreement?

So she thinks by destroying a beautiful marriage: it is the path to true happiness and a place of spiritual truth???? Destruction?

I though Buddest's were peace makers and the destroyers of none?

It would be the same as a "God told me this is what we are to do".
It is a no win argument. (And I do believe that she could really think this is a true Revelation.....)

You aren't enthusiastic: it would cause great destruction.

Get a leader to talk to her and don't cooperate at all.

That would be my advise as much as if someone else said "God told me to do xyz". Its bad for her, its bad for you.

Make it hard for her to leave, YOU don't leave your house and keep telling her you only speak peace/pro marriage and not destruction.

If she leaves, she will have to do it herself.

Introduce her to the ideas of Radical Honesty. Policy of Joint agreement.... Undivided Attention time.

bac, have you read the Basic Concepts on this site? There are also some Q&A columns by Dr. Harley that might be relevant to your situation.

Jedi Knight, I'm willing to hear any advice, however I know that there is no other person involved. Just her and universal truth.

She has been in constant email and phone contact with the retreat leader to support her through this 'awakening'. (a well respected teacher in meditation circles) I don't feel there is anything untoward there for anyone whose infidelity ears pop up. He has encouraged her along the buddhist philosophy. to sit with yourself and meditate on buddhist principles. Which I find difficult because it's creating a detachment.

Elaina, can you explain the make it hard for her to leave statement? i think i understand but im not sure.
I will look in to the info on the site.
thanks

This Q&A by dr. Harley might help you a little bit: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5040_qa.html

This is a tough topic - I did quick research on Buddhism (I know very little about the topic) and Buddha himself left his wife and children for the greater good of "enlightenment."

I think you should Plan A her a lot and spend as much time as possible to make things extra romantic. As Elaina said, make it hard for her to leave. If she really wants to take a path of solitude, it is up to her to find it.

In the meantime I suggest you respectfully try to reason with her using the guidelines provided in the link above. You could argue that Buddha was not against marriage and that a husband and wife should only separate if they are so incompatible they can't live together any more, which is not true in your case. You could also argue that Buddha gave guidelines as to how people should conduct themselves in marriage to remain happily married and that divorce is frowned upon in most Buddhist societies. Unless she plans to become a monk, separation does not make sense. The secret however is to remain respectful throughout the conversation. Ask her to do introspection and see if she hasn't interpreted her "awakening" wrongly.

But your greatest weapon is to get her to be so in love with you that she doesn't want to leave, no matter what her religion tells her. People choose love over religion all the time.

I myself married a non-Christian even while I consider myself to be a very zealous Christian and used to believe you shouldn't even marry someone from another church denomination. He has in the meantime converted to Christianity, although he still doesn't enjoy going to church.

You need to get at least 20 hours of undivided attention time to keep her in love (and addicted to) you. If she leaves the house, think about all kinds of excuses to meet up with her and make deposits in her lovebank. Show a lot of affection and you may win her back.

For a better answer, you might want to email dr. Harley himself to see what his take is on this.

Chobitz thanks for the advice.

undivided attention time is pretty tough when all she wants is solitude. She has no interest in movies, or dinner or conversations etc
I would gladly throw all of my time at her however that is making her more withdrawn.
Ill have a read of that link

If she's in constant contact with the guy, that doesn't sound like "sitting alone."

I see something completely untoward in my wife being in constant contact with a man in conversations that exclude me. I would suspect infidelity from such contact - I DEFINE infidelity as consisting of such contact.

As a similar example, if my wife regularly went to have coffee alone with another man, I would see that as a date and consider it to be infidelity.

My wife and I are Christians, and she does not have one on one contact with any of our church leaders. I wouldn't see this as beneficial for spiritual development. And in your case you can see that it is detrimental - a good spiritual leader would encourage your wife to build her marriage, which is a crucial part of spiritual development. And he would certainly not encourage her to be having one on one contact in this manner, because that is detrimental to marriage and thus to the spirit.

A few questions:

How long have you and your wife been married?

Do you have any children?

Were you both Buddhist when you got married, or is this a recent conversion?

Have either of you been married before? Do either of you have children by anyone prior to your marriage?

OK, you're probably going to want to skip this post and move on to the next one.

Bac, you're not going to prove anything "says otherwise" until you eliminate it with proof there's no possibility.

Bac, I was married 28 yrs. Had NO reason to think my H was cheating. I would have staked my life on his faithfulness. Good thing I was never required to do so or I'd be a dead duck now! I was SOOO sure of him.

Please don't cut yourself off of the possibility of recovering your marriage by closing your mind. If you check the possibility of unfaithfulness and find it was a wild goose chase,, so be it..one problem off the map.

LISTEN to the advice. Consider it! These are VERY experienced members offering very knowledgeable help for free. Please take advantage of it!

Your marriage may depend on it!

Good luck!

Thank you all for your replies.
I've known my wife for 16 years. we were best mates as teenagers. lost contact and then reconnected 6 or 7 years ago. We've been married for two. we have a puppy. No kids, no previous marriages. we're both 29. So right now my closest and oldest friend is walking away.
My wife has been in to yoga and meditation for 10 years. I have been interested in it for a long time but only practicing for 3 or 4 years. In terms of buddhism i respect and value the teachings. as does she. She now knows them to be universal truth and the path to happiness is in mindfulness and meditation. nothing else. Prior to this retreat i didn't see any harm from buddhism. recently i've looked around and the practices suggested by most teachers are traditionally for monks and those sorts not for people with families. so the detachment/non-attachment they foster (which clearly changes the wiring in your brain) can be harmful to 'lay people'. so now i'm not so sure about the current teachings. not the content. the concepts are good.
I find their 1 on 1 contact difficult now because she has shut me out of it. however if she needs support from people who have had this experience (and i mean support, she was barely functioning after retreat) then how do i say no? she found a teacher she connects with and appears to be the real deal when it comes to spiritual whatever. and is helping her to be able to identify and understand this transformation of view,insight, truth.
he has seen something in her and realises the process isnt finished and so found a space on his retreat in two weeks time and another space on his retreat in april and has used flyer miles to get her there. I find that weird but I also am not familiar with the concpet of dana or how buddhist circles operate. its about giving when you are able. so if he is able to support her spiritual growth then thats what they do.
she needs privacy and solitude and can't explain her transofrmation in words its pre-cognitive, pre-verbal. she has tried but falls short. she read me an excerpt this morning from a book the teacher sent her. her teacher sent it ot her to help her explain. gist
she says she just wants to be open and honest with communication and that her wanting this and stating it is open and honest. she doesnt want my emotional support. she doesnt want me to hold a space for her to be alone right now she just wants out of our marriage because she knows her previous ideas of life and future wont make her happy and she can't make me happy because she wants to be alone.

she is so rigid in this belief right now. its truth for her. so how do i work with that. do i just give up and say off you go and hope she comes back or I'm not sure of the alternative. She suggested counselling to manage our seperation but has said nothing about using it to stay together.

she wants to continue a relationship with me but not a marriage. she loves me but cant be married to me.
so confused. apologies if thats rambly.

can someone outline the definition of unfaithfulness for me?

The relationship you describe with this "teacher" is exactly how affairs begin. First one need is met and then the others are soon behind. That is how romantic relationships foster and grow.

That is the first place I would look if I were you. I would snoop like a bloodhound so you can put a stop to it. If it is not already an affair, it will be SOON.

It would be helpful if you could be more concise in your posts. There is so much superfluous information [such as needless information about buddism] that it is very hard to understand and follow your story. No one here needs to know about the concepts of buddism. We need you to understand the concepts of MARRIAGE BUILDERS in order to help.

Anything that comes before your marriage will ultimately threaten your marriage. Even if this situation is a simple as your wife pursuing a religious or philosophical path that leads away from your marriage, it is still infidelity in that she is breaking her marital commitment to you. You will have to deal with this as a threat to your marriage, just like an affair. Letting her go down this path without trying to win her back will hurt you just as much as any affair. Frankly, I don't see much of a difference. You will need to employ plan A for as long as two years in an attempt to win her back, and if that doesn't work, then plan B - don't see her, talk to her, or have anything to do with her until she commits to the marriage.

so my post didnt come through or went somewhere else ill rewrite.

Ive read through the basics. The information about an EA does seem a possibiility. whether thats with her teacher or a...spiritual experience I dont know. not sure if thats possible.

It does appear that she is unable to come to me for her emotional needs now. This is a place to start if she is willing (is that necessary?). I can work on building trust and work through my giver and conflict/withdrawl state and her taker withdrawl state. I can also talk to her about an agreement, undivided attention and complete honesty. although the honesty part she says she is there already and being completely honest.

If anyone is able to share how they have approached these conversations I think that might be helpful. I realise every person and relationship is individual but an idea of how these conversations came about may be useful.

"Wants to separate" is code for affair or wants to have an affair.

Dr Harley has said in his experience counseling couples and one wants to separate, it always turns out it's because they have someone waiting in the wings.

I have been here over six years and I have to tell you: Denial is a real problem on this MB101 forum with people who don't want to hear their spouse is probably in an affair. You aren't the first and you won't be the last. And just so that you know, they almost always come back and tell us we were right but sometimes it's too late...

Well, you can't work on building trust unless you snoop and find out how far her "relationship" has gone. If she is having an affair, everything you do will be a waste of time. It is like asking a falling down drunk to follow the 12 steps of AA. Nothing works until he stops drinking.

And MrEureka made a fantastic point that anything that comes before your marriage will destroy it. Obviously, her religion is very destructive to your marriage, so that will be the place to start once you rule out an affair. Her "spiritual advisor" is wrecking your marriage regardless of the relationship.

Can you get some spy resources in place?

Her path won't be "alone." It will be with lover boy. When a woman wants to separate it is so she can carry on an affair unimpeded.

Have you read this?
Snooping: Is it wrong? Or, is it the right thing to do in marriage?

Also these.
Are "Friends" a Threat to Your Marriage?"
The Risk of Opposite-sex Friendships in Marriage
How to Make Your Wife Happy

It's not weird for that man to fly your wife to his retreat (more than once, even), if it's an affair.

I'm not telling you she is having an affair, but you should independently verify what she does. That means don't ask her, use another method.

The very first retreat, did you two go together or did she go alone?