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It's a crutch because you are allowing her to use it excuse her behaviour. She is not the only mentally ill married person in this world - it does not give us license to abuse our spouses.
Diagnosis with whatever doesn't change the fact that she isn't even willing to dump Facebook to protect you. It's insulting. Your original thread was two months ago.
Don't you find it odd that you are going to disregard even the opinion of Dr. Harley himself? You won't be getting better advice than that.
Your marriage will not survive your enabling. I wish you luck, because you will need it.
*******T/J*******
*****alis,, check your email, please or email me JustUss2@aol.com******
end T/J
Last edited by JustUss; 01/16/14 01:58 PM. Reason: T/J
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It's interesting that this diagnosis is quickly discounted as a crutch and I must be protecting her.
I fought the diagnosis, as did she until we really researched the disorder(which is a very real, very serious mental illness). Did you get to hear the show? Dr. Harley said this diagnosis has been dropped from the DSM Diagnostic and Statistical Manual that lists disorders.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Follow the program but add more work she has to do to learn to understand her emotions, learn to act/react the right way and learn self control. Self control sounds good - Dr. Harley said there was an impulse control issue that needs to be dealt with, as well as a depression issue that needs to be dealt with. Prisca and I have found the POJA especially helpful for learning impulse control - when you wait for your spouse's enthusiastic approval before doing anything, it requires you to have to control yourself and not just act on impulses. As for depression - the best solution for that for a woman is a good relationship with her husband.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Sir,
When God wrote the 10 Commandments He didnt make exceptions for personality disorders.
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It's interesting that this diagnosis is quickly discounted as a crutch and I must be protecting her.
I fought the diagnosis, as did she until we really researched the disorder(which is a very real, very serious mental illness). My wife was/is crushed by the diagnosis, as she thought she was normal, for the most part, in her decision making/emotional processes. This disorder means our marriage is almost assured to fail strictly because if she gets what she wants- a happy, healthy, loving relationship- she will destroy it by default. That is a big pill to swallow. Add to that it means she is truly mentally ill, not just depressed, and her world was turned upside down.
For those that think this is a crutch people use to avoid responsibility, our understanding of her condition means that our marriage problems are now completely her fault. She has accepted this as part of accepting her illness. We sat down and worked through the EN questionaire, with quite a bit of difficulty on her part, and I'm meeting all of her needs, she wasn't meeting mine but is trying to. We also finally set up EP's. Her willingness on the EP's was easy because she truly wants to save our marriage and for us to do that, she can't trust what she thinks any more because she doesn't act/react the right way(I know, neither does anyone else that cheats).
The answer to my question about where I go from here was answered through all of this- We continue down the path with SAA. Follow the program but add more work she has to do to learn to understand her emotions, learn to act/react the right way and learn self control.
I think this might be my last post on my situation for a while. We started moving today, have tons to unpack and a book to read together.
Thanks again for all of the information, advice and guidance. It has been irreplaceable. So if I was drunk and killed your wife in accident I should be found innocent right? Because alcoholism is a diagnosis and I wasn't responsible for my actions?! Psssshaw! Your long drawn out explanation could of been done in two sentences. "I love my wife and I am willing to do what she wants. Even if it hurts me in the long run." She has no respect for you because you let her walk all over you! You can be assertive without being disrespectful but Plan Cars isn't about that. It's about sacrificing and using emotional reactions as a crutch to justify her affair. She doesn't need to do the classic affair justification. You are doing it for her! You are your own marriage worst enemy and you continue to fight and delve deep into shallow water. Your wife had an affair without consulting you or your kids. She did it because she wanted to, there isn't any complex medical diagnosis behind it. Just plain old selfish. Are you practicing the POJA? What are her EPs? She still using facebook? When are you going to hop off the hamster wheel?
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If she has a legitimate personality disorder then you will have an unhappy marriage.
Dr Harley devoted an entire chapter to personality disorder in his book Buyers Renters Freeloaders.....most of the people he speaks of on the show that are married to these types are unhappy
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I have seen the buyers, renters, and freeloaders thread and believe it holds value and is an pretty neat descriptor. The personality disorder diagnosis isn't an excuse for her choices and that's the first conversation we had. She agrees her choice to cheat and her choice to put no effort into meeting my needs are her responsibility, her conscious decisions that were wrong and she is working to meet my needs, we are following POJA and EP's now. There is no more facebook, no more opposite sex friends and a conscious daily effort to take care of me. She started reading SAA last night. There is no slack cut to her by me or by herself for her actions. If anything, there is more determination on her part to learn to have a fulfilling marriage than ever. But I'm sure I will still be told somehow it's a crutch and I'm enabling her even though the diagnosis pushed her to follow the program lined out in SAA instead of away from it.
For the record, I'm not delusional- my marriage isn't safe yet, i don't trust her. She knows I don't trust her. She knows our marriage isn't safe yet and we know her diagnosis, if correct, means that there's a 90% chance our marriage will fail without major changes on her part. Shoot, if the diagnosis is correct, every bit of the progress she's made in the last day/week/month could all be an act and tomorrow she could wake up and go out searching for another guy to hook up with. Her actions, as of now, do not support that course of action but I still take it one day at a time.
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Can you you two do the online program?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Been off for a while, working my wife into the MB program (successfully) and I wanted to update those that have followed my thread and ask a question.
Since I've last posted, the wife has read SAA and is willing/has started working the program. There is no more FB, she is accountable to me about her time, there are no secrets, good open communication and we have started working together on our ENs. We have agreed to the policy of joint agreement in writing, agreed to the EPs in writing and are following them. There is still some uneasiness in being completely honest but only because some honest thoughts and feelings on my part are still love busters due to triggers from the affair. We don't avoid them, just have to approach them carefully to keep from busting.
The attitude of my wife toward our marriage is very positive. She has become very willing to put effort into our relationship, even though she is still learning what that means, as am I.
The question I have regards the EN questionaire. When my wife filled out hers, she ranked her needs, took time to think through them and answered the questions honestly. On all of her needs, she ranked them just as I thought she would and she ranked my meeting those needs as being extremely satisfied, with almost nothing I need to improve on. Does that make any sense? I thought there would have been unmet needs or room for improvement.
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Your wife had an affair because of poor boundaries not because of lack on needs being met.
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I would concentrate on the Lovebusters if I were you. It is possible that you meet her EN perfectly, but your Lovebusters keep draining the Lovebank.
Can y'all sign up for the online program?
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Can't sign up for the online program, no internet at home any more.
I will work on the lovebusters, we have already established boundaries through the ENs.
Thanks
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Can't sign up for the online program, no internet at home any more.
I will work on the lovebusters, we have already established boundaries through the ENs.
Thanks **EDIT**
Last edited by Mizar; 02/19/14 01:50 PM. Reason: edited at poster request
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The question I have regards the EN questionaire. When my wife filled out hers, she ranked her needs, took time to think through them and answered the questions honestly. On all of her needs, she ranked them just as I thought she would and she ranked my meeting those needs as being extremely satisfied, with almost nothing I need to improve on. Does that make any sense? I thought there would have been unmet needs or room for improvement. My W did the exact same thing. There are several different possibilities why, but it would be only speculation to go into them. There is still some uneasiness in being completely honest but only because some honest thoughts and feelings on my part are still love busters due to triggers from the affair. I'd look at this item very closely. For example, saying something like "Every time I look at you I think about you and OM together" may be honest but it's violating the rule about bringing up the A. I'd also second the suggestion about getting into the online program. Having a coach there to prod both of you along will help a lot.
Me (42)
Her (43) - feuillecouleur
DS(11)
DD(7)
Married: June 24, 2000
Recovered
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Can't sign up for the online program, no internet at home any more. You could probably still call the Marriage Builders office and see what they recommend. The online program includes phone coaching.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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First of all congratulations on getting her on the program. That is really great news. Secondly, that is terrific news that she took down Facebook. That was our biggest concern.
Are you spending 15 hours a week of undivided attention time? If you are, and that is new, then that may be one of the reasons you are scoring high on meeting her needs. It is possible that the changes you both have made have improved your relationship.I agree with tranquil dark that boundaries are always going to be and issue in an affair. And that very well could have been the case with your wife. But if I am not mistaken, you have established extraordinary precautions to ensure your safety. Good job. Keep posting so we know how your progress is going. God bless.
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Great update. Glad you got your wife on board and got FB out of the equasion!
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Struggling a little bit with marriage recovery and I'm unclear on what to do at this point, so I thought I'd stop and and see what y'all think...
At this point, I guess everything is on track. We have our EP's in place, they aren't a challenge for the wife. We have both read SAA and have committed to working the program. Our POJA is in place and being followed, we are being completely honest with each other. We've filled out all the worksheets on the website and that's kind of where we're stuck.
It seems like there's a deficit in my wife for understanding/applying the principals in a way that's not self centered. She seems to be stuck in her own head, seems to believe that she's doing things in a way that's mutually beneficial but her thought process is still heavily weighted towards self instead of equal give and take. It comes across as selfish, but through our counseling sessions, I know she doesn't mean it that way. She has always been self centered in her thinking, was how she coped with a terrible home life growing up and became a habit long before we met.
Has anyone worked through changing this mindset/learned behavior with their spouse? Any pointers on how I can help her work to change this thought process?
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Cars:
Can you provide a specific example or two?
Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
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