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Originally Posted By: iRecover
I abruptly ended the conversation/hung up the phone (was driving to work) and haven't spoken with her since. Right now, I don't see a way back to a better place unless she can come to terms with this (apparent) severe dependency on me.


Can you come to terms with the fact that you handled this terribly and have harmed your marriage? You owe your wife an apology for being thoughtless and disrespectful.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: iRecover
Right now, I don't see a way back to a better place unless she can come to terms with this (apparent) severe dependency on me.


It's very disrespectful and judgmental of you to talk this way about your wife. The problem is not that there is something wrong with her that she needs to come to terms with. The problem is, independent behavior is a love buster - when you are married everything you do affects each other, even when you are apart, so if you want to have a good marriage, you will have to both agree to not do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you both.

I stopped seeing my family for awhile because my wife was not enthusiastic, because they had been very disrespectful to her. It was a great idea - my wife was a lot happier, and it also made her more willing to stop doing things I was not enthusiastic about. Later on, my family apologized to her and quit doing the things that were so disrespectful to her, so now we have a brand new relationship with them, one that makes my wife happy and makes me much happier than I was before.

It's normal for people to be bothered by things their spouse does. Sometimes what bothers one person would not bother another, and that's very normal, too. So even though it wouldn't bother you for your wife to make independent plans like this, it bothers her greatly, and you will need to take her feelings into account in your plans going forward if you want to have a great marriage with her.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: iRecover
W and I had major fallout a few days ago on my birthday. It's been a recurring issue that nearly every special day (Christmas, T-giving, Father's Day, Mother's day, birthdays, etc.) her feelings of dissatisfaction become more acute and we argue about my not meeting her needs. So, another special day was ruined before 0830a. In this case, I was trying to arrange a time to meet my DD (25yo whom I see only every 3-4 months even though she lives ~1hr away) while also negotiating time for my b-day with W and SD. I was trying to meet all the girls needs for my time. This triggered something in W who feels I have put DD first for most of marriage but I have stopped that for the past year+. IAC, I felt suffocated, like being grabbed by claws, in an effort to control everything I do -- just could not take it anymore. I abruptly ended the conversation/hung up the phone (was driving to work) and haven't spoken with her since. Right now, I don't see a way back to a better place unless she can come to terms with this (apparent) severe dependency on me.


Your daughter is a grown up for heavens sake! Isn't she rather alarmed that you take off and ignore your wife in such a fashion? I would be most alarmed if my father placed me before his own wife, even if she were not my mother. I expect my dad to be a good husband. I expect him to consider my mother first and foremost, forsaking all others.

How else would I know what a good husband looks like?

Originally Posted By: iRecover
I don't see a way back to a better place unless she can come to terms with this (apparent) severe dependency on me.


Every person is dependent on their spouse for their happiness. However that doesn't mean she is dependent on you. She could easily divorce you and replace you with someone she can depend upon.

I think that's what Dr H would advise.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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When you call your wife 'dependent' you are informing her that she cannot depend on you.

Any sane woman would take you at your word and find someone who can do the job right.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted By: SugarCane

It is profoundly disrespectful for you to have a separate, independent relationship with your daughter that your wife is made to feel as if she intrudes upon.


Originally Posted By: SugarCane

To compound this with putting the phone down on your wife and not speaking to her for days is vicious.


I just want to highlight these excellent points made by SC.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted By: indiegirl
I would be most alarmed if my father placed me before his own wife, even if she were not my mother.


My father's wife is not (biologically) my mother, and I agree: I would be alarmed if he placed me before her.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: indiegirl
I would be most alarmed if my father placed me before his own wife, even if she were not my mother.


My father's wife is not (biologically) my mother, and I agree: I would be alarmed if he placed me before her.


I don't even understand how such a father-daughter conversation would go! I am really close to my dad and we talk about everything but I would be gob smacked by such a conversation.

"Hey pops, happy birthday! What plans do you two have today?"
"Actually I have unceremoniously ditched your mother and I will see you on my own. I have also blamed you for this decision!"

That wouldn't take care of any 'needs' I have as a grown daughter. As a grown daughter I need my dad to live a good life and not do crazy things that would make me worry about him ending up old and alone.

Ths daughter is also being used a fairly transparent excuse. It is not about what his daughter 'needs' it is about his wants. He wants to do what he wants, when he wants, thoughtlessly. Anyone who has a problem with this is 'controlling' him.


Originally Posted By: iRecover

IAC, I felt suffocated, like being grabbed by claws, in an effort to control everything I do -- just could not take it anymore.



Someone this dedicated to 'I'll do what I want' behaviour should be single where their thoughtlessness won't hurt anyone.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Something doesn't sit right with your relationship with your DD25. Can you explain why she is put above your DW?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Guys, I think he's out of here.


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1 DS 15
Online course July '11 to July '12
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I don't really think the message was for us anyway. It was a way to send his W a DJ message without breaking the sulk.

If he came back I would encourage him to read Why Women Leave Men

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_leave.html

Particularly the quote that men are 'mystified' when a neglected wife files for divorce in spite of no apparent mistreatment.

It's common for men to feel that basic consideration is demanding. But their wives spend a long time trying marriage counselling before giving up overnight and filing for a D. Most divorces are filed by women for the very things iR is committing.


Originally Posted By: Dr Harley

Most husbands are mystified by these complaints. They feel that their wives demand too much, and that most other women would be ecstatic if married to them. Their wives have become spoiled, take their efforts for granted and have unrealistic expectations.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Hi iRecover-

I think it's great that you guys seem to be doing the online program and also that you came and posted when you felt stuck.

My husband 1HopefulGuy and I used to have lots of disagreements like these. In our case, it was his sister and mom who would be on the other end of the tug of war.

My husband just couldn't stand to disappoint them, so he ended up disappointing me. And the more he disappointed me, but made them happy, then he would compare my unhappiness to their admiration of him. He didn't really see it at the time, but he hated to disappoint. In the case with me, he felt like he could never make me happy. I was just too picky and difficult.

But the reality is, that he CAN make me happy. By listening to what I TELL him I would like, instead of ASSUMING what I SHOULD think, things have really changed. Now he has started to notice that the other females get bent out of shape and I am happy. Why can't everyone just be happy? Not gonna happen. Your responsibility is to meet your WIFE's needs, and to do NOTHING which would cause unhappiness for your wife. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

Your job is to please your wife. Here is how it would have worked out better:

Before talking with your daughter at all, you ask your wife how she would feel about you meeting your daughter for lunch.

Then LISTEN. DO NOT move forward if she expresses misgivings at all.

If your daughter brings it up to you first, you say that you will get back to her on that.




I think that over time, as you care for your wife in this way, she will fill you with way more admiration than you can ever get from your daughter.

For some people, it is much easier to get admiration from our kids, parents, coworkers and even strangers, than it is to get it from our spouses. Because those people don't require us to show up for them daily. But when it comes from spouses, it is truly EARNED!

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Also-

The way that we solved this problem is that we agreed that NEITHER of us would talk privately with his sister or his mom, without BOTH of us being on the phone.

That has solved many issues. Additionally, we have at times recorded conversations so that we can use them to go back and discuss scenarios or issues with the call.

Over about 6 months, this improved significantly. I now feel emotionally protected by my husband, and I don't go into a panic mode every time there is interaction with his family.

He now refuses to allow them to go behind my back to discuss things with him, or to make snide remarks to try to diminish me. Over time, I have become WAY LESS REACTIVE to all of this. What his family says doesn't bother me as much as when my husband used to put himself in the middle and refuse to protect me and take sides. When he put his foot down repeatedly, then got the message. Now they are on their best pleasant behavior when they come around.

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Okay. Just for sarcasm's sake...

How to Ruin A Special Day Before 8:30AM

1. Be aware that Special Days like Birthdays and Holidays, seem to be particularly important and emotional for both of you. Also be aware that your wife would like to plan this together.

2. Unilaterally start discussing plans with someone other than your partner in life. Then expect your partner in life to feel cared for by telling her after the fact. Deny your partner first dibs on filling your Birthday love bank.

3. Give your life partner an excuse or victim statement about why you felt forced to put someone elses wishes before hers. Then label her as controlling.

4. When your wife complains that she feels like second fiddle to daughter, blame her for the issue.

5. Tell your wife to get over it, and to stop asking to be your priority. How dare she.

6. Throw your hands up and tell all the girls to stop fighting over you. Then retreat to be alone, so that you can comfort yourself after being over-desired by your wife. Blame everyone else for putting you in the middle of a problem which you created when you chose to marry but didnt follow the rule of putting your wife first.


BTW...

Can you tell me which Love Buster is present in each step?

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Wow! A lot of blowback from you all. Most of you have jumped to conclusions. I haven't yet passed on to you all the issues I deal with in this relationship in general nor did I pass on ALL the specifics of what transpired that morning but I'm certainly not going to do so now. As one of you wrote, I'm checking out. Hopefully I can receive more objective guidance from my MB counselor. Bye.

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Originally Posted By: X_x
Wow! A lot of blowback from you all. Most of you have jumped to conclusions. I haven't yet passed on to you all the issues I deal with in this relationship in general nor did I pass on ALL the specifics of what transpired that morning but I'm certainly not going to do so now. As one of you wrote, I'm checking out. Hopefully I can receive more objective guidance from my MB counselor. Bye.

Having a hissy fit and then running away because your bad behaviour has been highlighted is pathetic behaviour. That's exactly what you did when you went and sulked in your basement for days when your wife expressed her disappointment.

When you get married, you are not supposed to sulk in a basement for days and not speak to your wife, whatever the issue. You are supposed to behave like a grown up and negotiate your problems.

We dealt with what you posted here. How can we be expected to deal with things that you did not post?

Do come back and tell us the more "objective" guidance you get from your coach about giving your wife the silent treatment for days at a time.


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Originally Posted By: X_x
Wow! A lot of blowback from you all. Most of you have jumped to conclusions. I haven't yet passed on to you all the issues I deal with in this relationship in general nor did I pass on ALL the specifics of what transpired that morning but I'm certainly not going to do so now. As one of you wrote, I'm checking out. Hopefully I can receive more objective guidance from my MB counselor. Bye.


The advice on the forums is consistent with Dr. Harley's Marriage Builders principles. Nearly always, when someone takes offense to the guidance, it is because they are behaving poorly and know it or don't want to change their behavior. The answer is to listen, learn and implement the principles.

What is it we don't know that you do?

AM


BW - 65
WH - 60
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
DD - 44, DS - 30, DS - 23
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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Originally Posted By: X_x
Wow! A lot of blowback from you all. Most of you have jumped to conclusions. I haven't yet passed on to you all the issues I deal with in this relationship in general nor did I pass on ALL the specifics of what transpired that morning but I'm certainly not going to do so now. As one of you wrote, I'm checking out. Hopefully I can receive more objective guidance from my MB counselor. Bye.


Let us know when you get serious. We will be here if that ever happens.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I hope you can receive guidance from your counselor also. I think that it's great that you posted, hoping for help.

Sometimes the help doesn't come in the form which we expect. I had to learn some difficult truths about my own lovebusters.

I hope you won't give up just because you got some blowback. Gotta be strong to recover. You can do this, iRecover. Just when you are making progress. Don't give up.

From DidntQuit

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Originally Posted By: X_x
Wow! A lot of blowback from you all. Most of you have jumped to conclusions. I haven't yet passed on to you all the issues I deal with in this relationship in general nor did I pass on ALL the specifics of what transpired that morning but I'm certainly not going to do so now. As one of you wrote, I'm checking out. Hopefully I can receive more objective guidance from my MB counselor. Bye.


Hmm. Not a fan of criticism, huh.

Have you checked out the admiration EN?

If you'd like applause for good marital behaviour, this is the place to get it. It's never too late to start doing better.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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No matter the details of your reasons why you treated your wife with such dishonor and disrespect, there was no excuse. I take it that you are still believing that your behavior was justified and therefore no apology is appropriate on your part? I take it you haven't apologized and changed your behavior?

You either did or didn't hang up on your wife. That is something we pointed out as needing an apology and not to do again. What conclusion did we jump to? Personally, I'm now wary of one who complains that I have jumped to conclusions when I point out hurtful, thoughtless behavior, because any behavior can be justified as "it only hurt you because you jumped to a conclusion about me doing it."

This path will ruin your marriage.

Do you want to stay married to your wife? This is not a rhetorical question: do you want to stay married to your wife?




And why did you change your screen name?


Last edited by LifetimeLearner; 04/03/14 05:40 AM. Reason: spelling error

xFWW(me)-48
Married-14 years
D-Day~23-May-11
NC- 14-Apr-11
1 DS 15
Online course July '11 to July '12
17 sessions with S. Harley Feb '12 to Sep '12
Divorced Jan 21, 2013
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