Not Jedi but I agree with him. kiss doesn't care. RQ dealbreakers are only another affair and abuse (not sure what that is defined as). Why would kiss change when there is no requirement to do anything?

It would be a waste of money.

ITA w JK and BR.

You just had him on the radio show a couple months ago to discuss breaking EPs and he did it again over your protestation. He knows he can do it and there are no consequences. His bad behavior is enabled. He has no motivation to change.

It is frustrating. Is divorce the only consequence? What would motivate a spouse?

Dr. Harley says people are motivated to do something when they either WANT to do that thing (i.e., it is enjoyable for them), or they want the RESULTS of doing that thing. (i.e., they want their spouse to be happy, so they will do something which might not bring them pleasure directly.)

Any other means of motivation leads to sacrifice.

Rocket, dear, you CAN raise the bar if you decide to. You really can!

Perhaps I was too stupid (and I had nothing to lose) when I was facing total ruin of everything, but something in Melody's post to me at the time clicked me into hyper I-am-Strong-I-am-a-Child-of-God mode, and I just snapped.

NEVER (!!!) will I be a renter again!

A renter, you say?

YES, a RENTER. I would have protested vehemently to anyone who even DARED to point out that I was a renter and not a buyer in our long marriage.

Nope, I was wrong. I was a renter�because I constantly sacrificed for our entire marriage and our two years of dating prior to M.

There were never any consequences for ill behavior. My H had free reign to do whatever he pleased. No biggie, he could always gaslight me to talk his way out of it, because I LET him.

A BUYER never sacrifices. We all know why, but I'll just put it out there. It is because it is not healthy for the marriage. It creates resentments. It creates unhappiness.

I am now a BUYER. I am complaining about every single thing that rubs me the wrong way. And lo and behold, my H is taking that info and using it (constantly) to make our relationship better and better.

It's a true miracle. Thank You God.

But�.whose heart did God change? H's or mine?

Thank you, blindsighted. I understand what you are saying. I just don't know how to put it into practice.

I agree that the online program would be a waste of money at this point. The online program is not a magic trick used when all else fails. It is an extension of the other tools that are already available free for the taking. Kiss has shown no interest in educating himself or using those tools to date, so why would the online program suddenly inspire him into action?

Yes there is accountability in the form of followup from the Harley team, but that is just as easily avoided as...reading, posting, and all other forms of educating oneself on how to create a better marriage.

I thought at first you were moving on your own. That might have inspired some action. Now I am worried you just moved your marriage status quo from one state to another.

Rocket, come on, you've been on these boards since 2012. You DO know how to put it into practice.

You've got a bible verse at the bottom of your posts, so you know that God has told us not to worship other people. That is idolatry. We are not supposed to worship our spouse by pinning our hearts onto them rather than trusting God.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 tells us to not delight in evil, but rejoice in the truth. If we look the other way as our spouse breaks EPs, we are permitting evil. We are dishonoring our spouse by dishonoring our Marriage!

No, divorce is not the only consequence and you know that. You know the MB program. It isn't a save the M at all cost program. But if you are opposed to D, you can plan B and stay separated for the rest of your life if you choose to do so.

Stop making threats. What have you previously said that you would do the next time that Kiss breaks EPs? Stop with the words and start with the ACTIONS!

We care about you Rocketqueen. You know that we will ALL be right there with you throughout whatever is coming next. You know that God will be with you. Please stop being a RENTER and take a step off of the ledge. You are stronger than you realize.

The impression I get is that he views MB and Dr. Harley as something he has to do every now and then...like how some reluctant husbands might be married to a church lady so they attend maybe 2 times a year...while she goes every week

KISS was offered daily accountability by HerPapaBear, who is familiar with the MB concepts and he refused it.
Help and motivation has been available to him all along...but he doesnt want it because he doesnt want to follow the MB program....

Just like (my post above) as a husband that attends church twice a year. he may be invited by other men to attend the "mens prayer breakfast"...or "mens prayer team"...but he wont do it because he's only there to please his wife a couple times a year and stop her nagging.

It's not a waste of money to use the coaching. You don't have to save up as much money at one time. You can try the coaching because they deal often with getting a reluctant spouse on board.

It's not a waste of time or money because after several sessions you will gain what you need to do something about your relationship. Sometimes you can't win a spouse over to partnership, but a few sessions will make that message clear. Then it will be your decision: can you live with a man tepid for you for the rest of your life?

Can you live with a man who can't even say "I am here for you. I'll always be here for you. I appreciate how you're here for me."? I couldn't - and didn't, and sometimes it comes to that, but it's a risk you take when you start looking out for your best interest, too.

The skank mobile continues to be a poa. His sister has hardly given us money for it. Finally, kiss talked to her about it since we desperately need money and she said she will try harder to be forthcoming with money. But! Again, she asked if we want it back in a joking way. When we were alone, I told kiss how much it bothers me when she says that and that I just don't feel that she would say it if she knew the full details of why we got rid of the car to begin with. Kiss said that he has told her and that he would talk to her, but I don't have much faith that he will and that full details will be given.

So, my question is do I step back and see if kiss will speak to her in my presence so that I am comfortable that all info was given, or do I do as previously suggested and talk to her myself?

Seriously?

If she's not paying you, then I say to take it back so that you can get it out of the family. If I remember correctly, didn't everyone her say not to sell it to her?

Hope you are doing well, Ever2. Takes a lot of practice to create a great marriage.

POJA! Brainstorm (together) with abandon. You do not HAVE to continue to be held hostage by this car.

There are a myriad of options, only limited by what the two of you consider silliness! For instance, if she asks if you want the car back, you could say YES you do�and then have another person drive it to a used car lot to sell on consignment, or have a friend put it on craigslist and handle the sale for a 10% finders fee.

I vote for not speaking to her yourself. I say don't "step back" and see anything�but instead step forward and be honest with kiss about what you need. You TWO come up with a solution together.

Ever, I know that you and kiss aren't quite in the POJA groove yet, but if you do not ASK then the answer is certainly no!

The thing is, she is not serious about giving the car back. She needs it. So, it is just silly for her to say it. Which makes it worse.

I guess for now, I'll just keep quiet. Thanks for the advice, guys.

Oh Good Lord!

You're just going to keep quiet and see if it resolves itself?

No!

You and Kiss come up with a plan to resolve this now. This week.

Who has the title to the car? If she hasn't paid for it, then is the title in her name? If it is, then you're probably hosed. If it isn't, then don't go borrowing trouble. Resolve this, take the stupid car back, get rid of it and get on with life. This is nuts!

Northwood, I meant keep quiet as in not saying anything to the sister about why we got rid of the car. I had agreed to kiss talking to her, even though I don't trust him to do so.

She does hold the title in her name, though. I regret giving her the car in the first place but at the time, I was only concerned with getting it out of my sight. Her needing a vehicle seemed like a win-win. Only she hasn't followed through with the payments.

I don't even care that much about the payments. I am more affected by her insensitivity, which I don't think would exist if she knew the truth. Perhaps I am just being overly sensitive about it.

well, I can relate...I still drive the family minivan where ww carried on her affair in.
But, I will be getting rid of it soon.

Hi everyone. It's been one year since we have moved down south. Kiss is looking into buying a house now. I'm not that crazy about the idea. We have rented since the affair. I told him I'm not ready for that kind of commitment. He doesn't care. Financially, it is smart. Emotionally, it is hard for me.

It opened up a lot of whether I can trust him. Whether I can stop looking up divorce attorneys "just in case". Whether I can commit to him, to us.

I'm scared. I just don't feel ready.

Advice?

Hi E2L! I had the impression that you had kind of abandoned the idea of MB? Of course the answer is going to be POJA and probably a recommendation to separate. But you already knew that.