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catwhit #2798276 04/23/14 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: catwhit
Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
It isn't a deal breaker for me, though. And that, I think, has always been the problem. It would take another affair or other abuse for it to be so. So how do I protect myself and my marriage when the other spouse does not put the same effort in that I do?

I think that is what I have been struggling with for a long time. Boundaries and consequences and trying to educate him. Though, I have given up most of that since I have no "plan".

The only thing that might help is the online program and we don't have the money for that.


I dont think the online program would help at all.


Why is that, Jedi?


Not Jedi but I agree with him. kiss doesn't care. RQ dealbreakers are only another affair and abuse (not sure what that is defined as). Why would kiss change when there is no requirement to do anything?

It would be a waste of money.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
black_raven #2798294 04/23/14 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: black_raven
Originally Posted By: catwhit
Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
It isn't a deal breaker for me, though. And that, I think, has always been the problem. It would take another affair or other abuse for it to be so. So how do I protect myself and my marriage when the other spouse does not put the same effort in that I do?

I think that is what I have been struggling with for a long time. Boundaries and consequences and trying to educate him. Though, I have given up most of that since I have no "plan".

The only thing that might help is the online program and we don't have the money for that.


I dont think the online program would help at all.


Why is that, Jedi?


Not Jedi but I agree with him. kiss doesn't care. RQ dealbreakers are only another affair and abuse (not sure what that is defined as). Why would kiss change when there is no requirement to do anything?

It would be a waste of money.


ITA w JK and BR.

You just had him on the radio show a couple months ago to discuss breaking EPs and he did it again over your protestation. He knows he can do it and there are no consequences. His bad behavior is enabled. He has no motivation to change.


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
SusieQ #2798317 04/23/14 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: SusieQ


ITA w JK and BR.

You just had him on the radio show a couple months ago to discuss breaking EPs and he did it again over your protestation. He knows he can do it and there are no consequences. His bad behavior is enabled. He has no motivation to change.


It is frustrating. Is divorce the only consequence? What would motivate a spouse?

Everthesame #2798319 04/23/14 07:42 PM
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Dr. Harley says people are motivated to do something when they either WANT to do that thing (i.e., it is enjoyable for them), or they want the RESULTS of doing that thing. (i.e., they want their spouse to be happy, so they will do something which might not bring them pleasure directly.)

Any other means of motivation leads to sacrifice.


Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
catwhit #2798322 04/23/14 08:21 PM
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Rocket, dear, you CAN raise the bar if you decide to. You really can!

Perhaps I was too stupid (and I had nothing to lose) when I was facing total ruin of everything, but something in Melody's post to me at the time clicked me into hyper I-am-Strong-I-am-a-Child-of-God mode, and I just snapped.

NEVER (!!!) will I be a renter again!

A renter, you say?

YES, a RENTER. I would have protested vehemently to anyone who even DARED to point out that I was a renter and not a buyer in our long marriage.

Nope, I was wrong. I was a renterbecause I constantly sacrificed for our entire marriage and our two years of dating prior to M.

There were never any consequences for ill behavior. My H had free reign to do whatever he pleased. No biggie, he could always gaslight me to talk his way out of it, because I LET him. frown

A BUYER never sacrifices. We all know why, but I'll just put it out there. It is because it is not healthy for the marriage. It creates resentments. It creates unhappiness.

I am now a BUYER. I am complaining about every single thing that rubs me the wrong way. And lo and behold, my H is taking that info and using it (constantly) to make our relationship better and better.

It's a true miracle. Thank You God.

But.whose heart did God change? H's or mine?



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Thank you, blindsighted. I understand what you are saying. I just don't know how to put it into practice.

Everthesame #2798333 04/23/14 10:51 PM
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I agree that the online program would be a waste of money at this point. The online program is not a magic trick used when all else fails. It is an extension of the other tools that are already available free for the taking. Kiss has shown no interest in educating himself or using those tools to date, so why would the online program suddenly inspire him into action?

Yes there is accountability in the form of followup from the Harley team, but that is just as easily avoided as...reading, posting, and all other forms of educating oneself on how to create a better marriage.

I thought at first you were moving on your own. That might have inspired some action. Now I am worried you just moved your marriage status quo from one state to another.

unwritten #2798358 04/24/14 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Thank you, blindsighted. I understand what you are saying. I just don't know how to put it into practice.

Rocket, come on, you've been on these boards since 2012. You DO know how to put it into practice.

You've got a bible verse at the bottom of your posts, so you know that God has told us not to worship other people. That is idolatry. We are not supposed to worship our spouse by pinning our hearts onto them rather than trusting God.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 tells us to not delight in evil, but rejoice in the truth. If we look the other way as our spouse breaks EPs, we are permitting evil. We are dishonoring our spouse by dishonoring our Marriage!

No, divorce is not the only consequence and you know that. You know the MB program. It isn't a save the M at all cost program. But if you are opposed to D, you can plan B and stay separated for the rest of your life if you choose to do so.

Stop making threats. What have you previously said that you would do the next time that Kiss breaks EPs? Stop with the words and start with the ACTIONS!

We care about you Rocketqueen. You know that we will ALL be right there with you throughout whatever is coming next. You know that God will be with you. Please stop being a RENTER and take a step off of the ledge. You are stronger than you realize.


DDays - six months of them
THANK YOU God and Marriage Builders.
We never knew that it could be this good! smile
Everthesame #2798384 04/24/14 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Originally Posted By: SusieQ


ITA w JK and BR.

You just had him on the radio show a couple months ago to discuss breaking EPs and he did it again over your protestation. He knows he can do it and there are no consequences. His bad behavior is enabled. He has no motivation to change.


It is frustrating. Is divorce the only consequence? What would motivate a spouse?


The impression I get is that he views MB and Dr. Harley as something he has to do every now and then...like how some reluctant husbands might be married to a church lady so they attend maybe 2 times a year...while she goes every week

unwritten #2798385 04/24/14 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: unwritten
I agree that the online program would be a waste of money at this point. The online program is not a magic trick used when all else fails. It is an extension of the other tools that are already available free for the taking. Kiss has shown no interest in educating himself or using those tools to date, so why would the online program suddenly inspire him into action?

Yes there is accountability in the form of followup from the Harley team, but that is just as easily avoided as...reading, posting, and all other forms of educating oneself on how to create a better marriage.



KISS was offered daily accountability by HerPapaBear, who is familiar with the MB concepts and he refused it.
Help and motivation has been available to him all along...but he doesnt want it because he doesnt want to follow the MB program....

Just like (my post above) as a husband that attends church twice a year. he may be invited by other men to attend the "mens prayer breakfast"...or "mens prayer team"...but he wont do it because he's only there to please his wife a couple times a year and stop her nagging.

Jedi_Knight #2798651 04/27/14 06:50 AM
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It's not a waste of money to use the coaching. You don't have to save up as much money at one time. You can try the coaching because they deal often with getting a reluctant spouse on board.

It's not a waste of time or money because after several sessions you will gain what you need to do something about your relationship. Sometimes you can't win a spouse over to partnership, but a few sessions will make that message clear. Then it will be your decision: can you live with a man tepid for you for the rest of your life?

Can you live with a man who can't even say "I am here for you. I'll always be here for you. I appreciate how you're here for me."? I couldn't - and didn't, and sometimes it comes to that, but it's a risk you take when you start looking out for your best interest, too.


xFWW(me)-48
Married-14 years
D-Day~23-May-11
NC- 14-Apr-11
1 DS 15
Online course July '11 to July '12
17 sessions with S. Harley Feb '12 to Sep '12
Divorced Jan 21, 2013
LifetimeLearner #2814317 08/11/14 03:00 PM
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The skank mobile continues to be a poa. His sister has hardly given us money for it. Finally, kiss talked to her about it since we desperately need money and she said she will try harder to be forthcoming with money. But! Again, she asked if we want it back in a joking way. When we were alone, I told kiss how much it bothers me when she says that and that I just don't feel that she would say it if she knew the full details of why we got rid of the car to begin with. Kiss said that he has told her and that he would talk to her, but I don't have much faith that he will and that full details will be given.

So, my question is do I step back and see if kiss will speak to her in my presence so that I am comfortable that all info was given, or do I do as previously suggested and talk to her myself?

Everthesame #2814349 08/11/14 07:40 PM
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Seriously?

If she's not paying you, then I say to take it back so that you can get it out of the family. If I remember correctly, didn't everyone her say not to sell it to her?

Hope you are doing well, Ever2. Takes a lot of practice to create a great marriage.

hug

Everthesame #2814356 08/11/14 08:51 PM
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POJA! Brainstorm (together) with abandon. You do not HAVE to continue to be held hostage by this car.

There are a myriad of options, only limited by what the two of you consider silliness! For instance, if she asks if you want the car back, you could say YES you doand then have another person drive it to a used car lot to sell on consignment, or have a friend put it on craigslist and handle the sale for a 10% finders fee.

Originally Posted By: Ever2Late
So, my question is do I step back and see if kiss will speak to her in my presence so that I am comfortable that all info was given, or do I do as previously suggested and talk to her myself?

I vote for not speaking to her yourself. I say don't "step back" and see anythingbut instead step forward and be honest with kiss about what you need. wink You TWO come up with a solution together.

Ever, I know that you and kiss aren't quite in the POJA groove yet, but if you do not ASK then the answer is certainly no!


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The thing is, she is not serious about giving the car back. She needs it. So, it is just silly for her to say it. Which makes it worse.

I guess for now, I'll just keep quiet. Thanks for the advice, guys.

Everthesame #2814693 08/12/14 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ever2Late
The thing is, she is not serious about giving the car back. She needs it. So, it is just silly for her to say it. Which makes it worse.

I guess for now, I'll just keep quiet. Thanks for the advice, guys.


Oh Good Lord!

You're just going to keep quiet and see if it resolves itself?

No!

You and Kiss come up with a plan to resolve this now. This week.

Who has the title to the car? If she hasn't paid for it, then is the title in her name? If it is, then you're probably hosed. If it isn't, then don't go borrowing trouble. Resolve this, take the stupid car back, get rid of it and get on with life. This is nuts!




Last edited by Northwood8900; 08/12/14 07:17 PM.

Me (BH)
FWW
Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2

Northwood8900 #2814698 08/12/14 08:38 PM
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Northwood, I meant keep quiet as in not saying anything to the sister about why we got rid of the car. I had agreed to kiss talking to her, even though I don't trust him to do so.

She does hold the title in her name, though. I regret giving her the car in the first place but at the time, I was only concerned with getting it out of my sight. Her needing a vehicle seemed like a win-win. Only she hasn't followed through with the payments.

I don't even care that much about the payments. I am more affected by her insensitivity, which I don't think would exist if she knew the truth. Perhaps I am just being overly sensitive about it.

Everthesame #2814714 08/13/14 12:37 AM
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well, I can relate...I still drive the family minivan where ww carried on her affair in.
But, I will be getting rid of it soon.

Jedi_Knight #2849447 04/03/15 02:28 PM
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Hi everyone. It's been one year since we have moved down south. Kiss is looking into buying a house now. I'm not that crazy about the idea. We have rented since the affair. I told him I'm not ready for that kind of commitment. He doesn't care. Financially, it is smart. Emotionally, it is hard for me.

It opened up a lot of whether I can trust him. Whether I can stop looking up divorce attorneys "just in case". Whether I can commit to him, to us.

I'm scared. I just don't feel ready.

Advice?

Everthesame #2849451 04/03/15 02:47 PM
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Hi E2L! I had the impression that you had kind of abandoned the idea of MB? Of course the answer is going to be POJA and probably a recommendation to separate. But you already knew that.


Me (42)
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DS(11)
DD(7)

Married: June 24, 2000

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