I have to disagree. I am meeting her needs, or at least the needs I think she needs based on what her love language is and what the emotional needs questionaire indicated. Now, maybe you have a point that I may not be meeting then correctly. I need to think about that.

When a woman is not in love she tends to prioritise the non intimate needs.

Hi NotTouched.

I'm in a very similar situation and have been working the program here for awhile now. I know you're coming from a couple of different programs because I am recognizing the different terminology. I even know where MrNiceGuy is coming from. I recognize that approach as well.

But this is the Marriage Builders program, so let's talk in terms of that approach as it is designed to be a complete program all by itself.

How long ago did you two sit down and fill out the emotional needs questionnaire? Have you also done a love busters questionnaire?

Can you list your W's top five needs here in order?

Can you give examples of things you do every day to meet those needs?

How often are you getting out of the house together on dates where it is just the two of you? For how long? What are you doing during those dates?

Just touch on some of things you mention here:
I have learned years ago to not sulk or try not to show any emotion when Im frustrated. I think that is why we are still married for 28 years now. Not to blow my own horn but I think I have done a WONDERFUL job just taking the blows of this frustration over the years.

Im a ver romantic guy, over the years I have always done things for her, come home with flowers, surprise her with "surprise dates", taking her out in a limo on dates...I could go on and on.

I like your suggestion of not doing everything she ask. I just started doing some of this more. She gets very upset because she has been so used to that. But I am to a point now, I dont care if it makes her made..."join the frustration". I know that sounds vindictive but I dont care at this point. Im tired!!

I have always told her this issue isnt about sex. Its about simple affection, thats all I want. It doesnt matter to me if that affection leads to sex or not. If it does, GREAT but if it doesnt then thats GREAT too, its not about sex..just some affection.

She has told me before to "just go get" the affection from her if I need it. That sounds good but what good is affection if I have to force it or just take it. Thats not what Im after. For years I struggled with why God gave us free choice however he wants sooo dearly for us to seek, love and follow him. Now I fully understand. He doesnt want to force us to desire him, love him and seek him. He want to "feel" the love from us. I want to "feel" the love from her. Hope that makes sense.

I am always touching, flirting, texting, ect... her. I have always hoped that leading by example she would see the light.
NOT!

hmmm...interesting
Wow! It really hurts to think shes probably not in love with me. I guess I never really considered that or at least wanted to consider that.

NotTouched

It sounds like you have been working really hard for 28 years and I totally get that. You and a lot alike in that way. The thing had to and still have to get is if it's not working I'm not doing something right. So even though you may feel like you we are talking your wife's side we are not. She isn't here, only you are and I'm sure that frustrates you too. We want you to stop surviving in an unhappy marriage and create a loving one.

It sounds to me that you feel like you are alway sacrificing and as you are noticing that only make you more angry over time. So answer all of our questions so we can help you come up with a plan that moves you into a loving marriage.

Obviously what you have been doing for the last 28 years is not working and it would be insanity to continue doing it and expect different results. Let us help you.

Can you answer these?

Could you please answer these?

If you were meeting her needs, she would be in love. We can tell she is not. When you are meeting your spouses needs in a meaningful way, they feel passionate love towards you.

What do you believe her emotional needs are?

NT, I believe you when you say you have been working hard, but you have not been working smart. You have been playing pool with blinders on, hoping for the best. There really is an exact science to all this. It takes spending 20-25 hours of undivided attention time with her meeting the INTIMATE emotional needs in a way that makes her happy. It takes eliminating sacrifice and lovebusters.

You menti0oned you have been through the Marriage Builders course. My H and I went through it in 2007. Who is your coach? And have you brought your issues up to Dr Harley?

It's obvious she's not. You would notice if she were!

Usually when needs are not being well met, the woman falls out of love first. Now you are following her in the path out of love, because you don't like her unloving demeanor.

She probably feels guilty about it, and wishes she loved you passionately, but she can't just make it so.

Sacrifice might be responsible for it. Doing whatever a woman asks does not make her happy. She can tell you don't really want to. What does work is to carry on negotiating until you find something you can do for her that makes you happy too.

The other thing that could be responsible for it is time. Men do OK without lots of UA time. That's because their needs can be met pretty briefly, in the home around lots of distractions. Usually women need dates that have been thoughtfully planned for them, have lots of interesting conversation, fun recreation and affection. Affection is not just a physical element, either. Some women adore non physical affection such as notes, and just remembering what she likes.

If you ask her does she want this she will probably say no because she does not feel that way right now. She probably values non intimacy more.

The way to do it is to think back to your courtship days. What did you do for her that won her? Did you spend more time on dates then?

You can see that the practice of going out of your way to "not do everything she asks" has bad results. You can see that it upsets her. Why, then, would you like the suggestion?

The fact that you do not care about being vindictive is telling. In a good marriage, we avoid being the source of our spouse's unhappiness. We don't take a don't-care attitude, or even become vindictive.

You are trying to get a better marriage, so why would you do anything that you know upsets her? Just exactly how is being "no more Mr Nice Guy" helping your wife to fall in love with you?

Intentionally, randomly picking things that she asks and not doing them is a terrible idea and will only piss her off. If there's something she is asking you to do that you are not enthusiastic about, by all means don't do it. But look for things that you CAN do to show care for her!

***EDIT***

I agree markos.. It can't be randomly picking things. It has to be things you genuonly don't want to do in the moment. There is a fine line in this between vindicive and self respect. Find it.

A reminder to posters to advise using Marriage Builders concepts, or refrain from posting.

Notouch.

***EDIT***

MB has good advice.. I know I lived it and still do but often its hard to articulate apropriately because of how mechanical it is all written.

Work out... Find positive energy in yourself while following the principlas here and project that positive fun energy to your wife and don't let her take it away. Try to figure out a way to follow the advice here without it being so mechanical in nature.

MNG

My wife has always been a very cold, non-touching, non-affectionate, non-romantic woman. However she is a wonderful mother to our children and a wonderful wife when it comes to the household. I give her an A+ in those two categories. As far as a warm, affectionate, romantic woman? D- to an F. I guess this is why I have stayed married to her, two out of three is pretty good.

Hi! Welcome to MB. I am sorry you are in so much pain, so I am going to throw out some suggestions.

In the world of Dr. Harley- maybe a better approach would be to tell your wife using positive reinforcement what things specifically she could do to show you "affection" and "romance". For me, I don't know what those words means to you.
Dr Harley has couples write down specifically what they would like, ask their partner what would help make this happen and then practice/try it out for a month.

For instance:
1. When we wake in the morning, I would like you to roll over, smile at me and then hold me for 5 minutes while stroking my back and arms.
2. Before we get up I would like you to look me in the eyes and say good morning, I love you.
3. I would like to have breakfast with you where we talk some about our upcoming day while we hold hands and or or rub my arms.
4. Before I leave for work, I would like you to hug me, kiss me and look me in the eye and smile telling me Have a good day and I love you.
5. During the day I would like to receive 3 text messages just saying you are thinking about me or something interesting you are doing.
6. When I call you for lunch, I would like for you to take 5-10 minutes to talk to me and tell me you can't wait to hold me again when I get home.
7. When I get home, I want you to come over, smile at me and give me a 3 minute hug followed by a kiss. I would like you to tell me that you are happy to see me and that you love me.
8. During dinner I would like you to wink at me once and give me a smile. I would also like it if you would rub my leg.
(And so on)

Perhaps she just doesn't know how to do Exactly what you need. Write it down! It will NOT feel natural or normal for either of you for usually about 3 weeks, but then suddenly it does-you have created a new habit that
A. Makes you feel like you are receiving the affection you need (this is different for everyone)
B. She can feel like she is finally being a better wife to you as she has something concrete to work on.

I would at least stop calling her cold or frigid. It is Disrespectful. Do you know what her definition of romance is?

Anyhow, hope that might help as a starting point.

NT, does this sound like you?




You say you've stopped making her happy which suggests you were not crazy about the deeds required in the first place. The may explain the current state of the marraige.

When a man acts unenthusiastically, not doing things joyfully but because he feels he should, he makes his wife feel insecure, anticipating problems, and her love starts to drain off. Then he gets frustrated and stops doing anything.

Dr Harley says this situation can be fixed with PoJA. Here:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8122_wife.html

Elaina, great list!!