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Well, it took us forever to get to the bottom line!
Can we help in some way? Does your DD want to recover her marriage? She previously ignored all the advice she received here.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Did he end his affair? Commit to the program? This just happened last night. I guess now he says he's going to end it but If or How are yet to be determined. I don't know what action steps they took today. I'm sure she's exhausted. He kept her up until 3-4AM last night! She asked him to read the MB books, but he still won't talk with Steve or any other counselor. DD told him that all contact must end with OW. DD hasn't had time to hammer out all the EP's. Wallflower there's no way this is going to work. He's hoping to recover in secret, without any MB counselling, and next door to OW. As you said he wants to set the terms and control your daughter. If she is willing to go for that, at least try to get her to line up Plan B 'just in case' the affair restarts - because it will.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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WF, if your daughter doesn't want to listen and expose you may (and I would if she was my DD) do it yourself. Right now she is in Plan Doormat and will not recover her marriage or her sanity going down this road. Denial will prolong her misery and make things worse.
Have you spoken to WH's mother and siblings yourself or are you relying on BW about this exposure too.
Last edited by black_raven; 08/01/14 08:20 PM.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Does your DD want to recover her marriage? Yes, she wants to recover her marriage.
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Does your DD want to recover her marriage? Yes, she wants to recover her marriage. If she is serious about that, please tell her we would be glad to help.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Have you spoken to WH's mother and siblings yourself or are you relying on BW about this exposure too. No, I haven't spoken with them directly.
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If she is serious about that, please tell her we would be glad to help. thank you, Melody. Perhaps posters can locate and post on her thread. I am encouraging her get on the forum and to call Steve to update him before she makes any serious plans for a possible recovery phase. I'm with Indie though. If WH is already dictating what he will and will not do, there is little chance of recovery.
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If she is serious about that, please tell her we would be glad to help. thank you, Melody. Perhaps posters can locate and post on her thread. I am encouraging her get on the forum and to call Steve to update him before she makes any serious plans for a possible recovery phase. Wallflower, we already posted to her in June and she completely ignored all our advice. I won't post to her unless I see that she is serious. I have a family and career of my own and my time is very valuable. We can't help someone against her will. I don't see any hope of recovery unless your daughter takes the steps seriously. I think it is a good idea to consult with Steve, but she doesn't need to update him to get a serious plan. We KNOW the plan that is subscribed by Dr Harley and can help her now if she will listen.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Did he end his affair? Commit to the program? Spoke with DD last night. NC Letter has been delivered to OW. OW has been blocked from both of their phones. He has given DD access to his phone and personal email acct by sharing his passwords.
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Did he end his affair? Commit to the program? Spoke with DD last night. NC Letter has been delivered to OW. OW has been blocked from both of their phones. He has given DD access to his phone and personal email acct by sharing his passwords. Still just getting the overwhelming smell of a put up job. My assessment is he's gone to OW, told her he has to stay for the children or something else to put HER on the back burner for a while 'but wait for me, my love'. So OW is going along with a faux NC letter and she will pretend to be 'blocked' from phones because there is an affair phone or some other more secretive mode of contact. I have never ever seen a recovery take place for real when the guy is behaving your SiL and the woman acting like a scared rabbit. If your daughter will proceed with exposure (not warning him it will happen but just doing it), the truth will soon be plain as day. His reaction will tell all. If he is OK with his mistress being watched on her end by her husband then he won't care about exposure. If he is ready to say sorry and start rebuilding his reputation then he won't care she has exposed him. If he is OK with moving and the fact that he can never introduce OW as his innocent new wife in the future then he won't mind exposure. A willingness to move will also be a much bigger 'tell' than this NC letter. She can't skip anything on the list. Whenever anything is missed off it always bites you in the butt. I'll post you the list. If she refuses to expose now when it appears she has regained him then she never will. She has had plenty of time to safeguard her children and home for many months so if she refuses again, I think you should go ahead and do it.
Last edited by indiegirl; 08/02/14 08:27 AM.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Here is a checklist for how affairs should end. From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
"The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.
These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives."
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
_____Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
_____Allow technical accountability.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
How many of these measures would you say are done?
Last edited by indiegirl; 08/02/14 08:34 AM.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Has Dr Harley ever recommended someone beside the BS execute exposure does anyone know? This is a question of a nursing mother's health.
I'm convinced this BW is too chicken, but wondering if her mother can not just speak to the parents but hit all exposure targets in her stead. Would it make her daughter appear weak or does it simply not matter as long as the shame kills the A?. Her health will be greatly improved if she starts standing up for herself and her kids! Taking action is the best thing she can do.
The daughter can choose to be strong today. I know she can do it. Yeah that's true. We all exposed even though our hands were shaking. It's a choice and she can make it right now. If I were you, I would launch the exposure nuke since your daughter seems to not want to help herself. This would do more to help them than anything. When your daughter posted she had not even exposed to the OW's husband. It doesn't seem that there has been a forum consensus on this yet, so I am encouraging DD to expose. I texted DD last night and asked if she wanted me to send out the exposure letters from her. She said "no". This morning I asked her to consider posting to forum to seek advice on this stating that the timing right now couldn't be better since WH has committed to cutting off all contact with OW and OW has received NC Letter. It would be a one-two punch, so to speak. I offered that if she is embracing MB concepts, that this is a crucial step and right now it would have a synergistic effect. Waiting for her response.
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Here is a checklist for how affairs should end. From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
"The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.
These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives."
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse. PARTIAL
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.Yes
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse. Yes
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
Blocked OW from both of their phones.
Shared his passwords to phone & email and granted access.
Not sure what they have done about FB yet.
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
_____Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
_____Allow technical accountability.
What does this one mean?
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
very partial
How many of these measures would you say are done?
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Yeah not exactly a full strike is it? It's not good if the job stops there. Let's see what attitude she comes back to you with re exposure.
I hate to be a pessimist but I think you have a stretch of time ahead watching your daughter accept crumbs.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Techincal accountability means she has all his computer and account passwords.
She should also get a keylogger on there without his knowledge to police contact resumption.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Yeah not exactly a full strike is it? It's not good if the job stops there. Let's see what attitude she comes back to you with re exposure. Keep in mind, Indie, we are only 24 hours into this, but at least she's is tackling some of the essentials right up front. No Contact being a "biggy". Does Dr. Steve have a different view on exposure than Dr. W.H.? Her response is that She wants to speak with Dr. Steve first.
Last edited by WallFlower; 08/02/14 09:20 AM.
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From my own experience SH can seemingly hold out a bit. I'd suggest you write to the Dr Bill Harley on his radio program for your own clarity. Or see if you can participate in call w/Steve Harley.
BW 58
WH 61
married 35 years
2 adult children
2 grandchildren
"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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Yeah not exactly a full strike is it? It's not good if the job stops there. Let's see what attitude she comes back to you with re exposure. Keep in mind, Indie, we are only 24 hours into this, but at least she's is tackling some of the essentials right up front. No Contact being a "biggy". Does Dr. Steve have a different view on exposure than Dr. W.H.? Her response is that She wants to speak with Dr. Steve first. Dr. Harley's program for Surviving an Affair is detailed in his book and he stresses that the steps must be taken exactly, as the smallest deviation can result in failure.
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Did he end his affair? Commit to the program? Spoke with DD last night. NC Letter has been delivered to OW. OW has been blocked from both of their phones. He has given DD access to his phone and personal email acct by sharing his passwords. Still just getting the overwhelming smell of a put up job. My assessment is he's gone to OW, told her he has to stay for the children or something else to put HER on the back burner for a while 'but wait for me, my love'. So OW is going along with a faux NC letter and she will pretend to be 'blocked' from phones because there is an affair phone or some other more secretive mode of contact. I have never ever seen a recovery take place for real when the guy is behaving your SiL and the woman acting like a scared rabbit. If your daughter will proceed with exposure (not warning him it will happen but just doing it), the truth will soon be plain as day. His reaction will tell all. If he is OK with his mistress being watched on her end by her husband then he won't care about exposure. If he is ready to say sorry and start rebuilding his reputation then he won't care she has exposed him. If he is OK with moving and the fact that he can never introduce OW as his innocent new wife in the future then he won't mind exposure. A willingness to move will also be a much bigger 'tell' than this NC letter. She can't skip anything on the list. Whenever anything is missed off it always bites you in the butt. I'll post you the list. If she refuses to expose now when it appears she has regained him then she never will. She has had plenty of time to safeguard her children and home for many months so if she refuses again, I think you should go ahead and do it. Yep. Exposure needs to be done. Start by posting the OW on www.cheaterville.com and then follow the Exposure 101 thread.
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Does Dr. Steve have a different view on exposure than Dr. W.H.? Her response is that She wants to speak with Dr. Steve first. I highly doubt it. I've only heard exposure delayed for reasons of violence or not enough proof. Besides, all of your daughter's decisions have clearly been halted by her own fear - she had been ready to act with all the MB measures but got choked when it came to 'going over the top'. That's not how you behave when you are guided by professional advice, it's how you behave when you are guided by panic. So I just flat out don't believe her. She kept her affair secret from you for ages - she will keep you on a 'needs to know basis'. I think when she says 'I want to speak to Steve first' she means - scram, stop make me doing stuff I find too scary to do. Let me come up with an excuse to put you off'.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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