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Your wife is trying to use debate as a tactic to gain a means toward independent behavior. The answer to "So if I have sex with you three times a week, you'll let me get a job?" should be "no". SF and "her going back to work" are orthogonal concerns. They should not be linked. Going back to work at the same type of job as before is restricted as an EP, and until you are confident that there is no risk to your marriage in her working, it shouldn't happen. I don't see how SF has any bearing, and it should not be used as a bribe to get her way.


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Originally Posted by FightTheFight
Her response to Dr Harley's advice is to say to me "So if I have sex with you three times a week, you'll let me get a job?" It's hostile.
But Dr Harley's advice to her was not to "have sex three times a week". He said she needed to "restore a romantic relationship" with you. Romance is about a lot more than sex, and it involves her feelings as well as yours. If she has sex with you three times a week and hates having to do it, that is not romantic and will do nothing for her feelings or yours. It won't give you a happy marriage. It will also do nothing to protect her from wanting to have an affair with someone from work.

Anyway, Dr Harley has posted his response to you now. I think it could not be clearer. I think you should post it in full here so that people who don't have access to the private forum can see it. We can all then help you further, with his advice to guide us.


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This is Dr Harley's response.

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
FightTheFight:

The goal of having a romantic relationship where both of you are in love with each other is our goal for all couples we coach. It's not just about sex, it's about a couple bonding with each other romantically which is what they both expected when they first married. If your wife had sex with you twice a day for the rest of your lives together it would not fulfill that goal unless she was deeply in love with you while offering that much intimacy to you. So all of this is about more than sex.

The issue of working only after a romantic relationship is achieved is a compromise regarding necessary extraordinary precautions to avoid another affair. Avoiding work is a reasonable extraordinary precaution because of the way that your wife had her affair. It was essentially sexual, and took place only at work. An extraordinary precautions eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. But there's a very good argument for relaxing that precaution after a romantic relationship is established because at the time of her affair, your lack of romance made her particularly vulnerable for another man to fill the void.

You had told me when you first started our program that you were willing to remain married to your wife even if your sexual relationship never improved. You couldn't imagine living without her. That was a great concession on your part but it was reasonable considering how much you care about her and your children. I would have done the same thing. But if that concession were to make sense, your wife would have to do her part by steering clear of any future affairs. One more affair would certainly end your marriage. So if staying at home to raise your children reduces that likelihood, it would seem to be the least she could do to preserve your marriage if a sexual relationship with you never materialized.

I hope you can both create a very passionate and romantic relationship that will last for the rest of your lives. And since you have moved into your new house, there has been some indication that it might happen over time. Aside from your conversation about your wife working again, there have been times of improvement. I was hoping that once you were moved, your relationship might take off, but it's looking more as if it might take several months to a year for that to take place. When that happens -- if it happens -- I don't think you will object to your wife returning to work. And she will not regard the waiting as punishment for her affair, but rather as incentive to create what she really wanted from the beginning of your marriage.

Best wishes,
Dr. Harley


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What does she think about that?


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Thank your or posting the advice, ftf. I'm sure other posters will appreciate seeing it.

Originally Posted by FightTheFight
Her response to Dr Harley's advice is to say to me "So if I have sex with you three times a week, you'll let me get a job?" It's hostile.
Are you planning to discuss what the advice actually did recommend? (Maybe not; what is your coach's view of discussing things with your wife? Should that be left up to the coach?)

Do you think your wife is sympathetic to your needs in the marriage, even if she cannot fulfil them at present? Do you think she has goodwill towards you?


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
What does she think about that?

All she seemed to get out of it was the waiting several months to a year part and she did say that she does feel like it is punishment. She did go on to say that she is happy with our relationship, she is just bored and has nothing to do.


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Are you planning to discuss what the advice actually did recommend? (Maybe not; what is your coach's view of discussing things with your wife? Should that be left up to the coach?)

We can and have discussed it so long as it remains respectful.

Originally Posted by SugarCane
Do you think your wife is sympathetic to your needs in the marriage, even if she cannot fulfill them at present? Do you think she has goodwill towards you?

I believe she is sympathetic. I think she is just tired of waiting and believes that her primary issues in life would be solved if she could return to work.


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It is also very hard to have advice offered because she views the whole thing as one big lecture. That is why she did not respond to the questions in her thread.


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Originally Posted by FightTheFight
It is also very hard to have advice offered because she views the whole thing as one big lecture. That is why she did not respond to the questions in her thread.
Did she actually say this?

I was going to ask you to ask her to come back to her thread and post to us. I think we all have a genuine desire to see her happy, so that your marriage succeeds, and we would like to help her achieve happiness, not to punish her in any way. However, it sounds as if your asking her to post would not be successful.


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by FightTheFight
It is also very hard to have advice offered because she views the whole thing as one big lecture. That is why she did not respond to the questions in her thread.
Did she actually say this?

I was going to ask you to ask her to come back to her thread and post to us. I think we all have a genuine desire to see her happy, so that your marriage succeeds, and we would like to help her achieve happiness, not to punish her in any way. However, it sounds as if your asking her to post would not be successful.

Yes. I asked her directly why she abandoned her thread. I told her I was interested in the answers to her questions. She said "What were the questions?" So I read them to her and she said "Ah yes, it's just a lecture." And she did not answer the questions to me either.


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Originally Posted by FightTheFight
I asked her directly why she abandoned her thread. I told her I was interested in the answers to her questions. She said "What were the questions?" So I read them to her and she said "Ah yes, it's just a lecture." And she did not answer the questions to me either.
Pretty much by definition, a lecture is not comprised of questions.


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Originally Posted by mrEureka
Originally Posted by FightTheFight
I asked her directly why she abandoned her thread. I told her I was interested in the answers to her questions. She said "What were the questions?" So I read them to her and she said "Ah yes, it's just a lecture." And she did not answer the questions to me either.
Pretty much by definition, a lecture is not comprised of questions.

Maybe it's the way the question is worded. This one is considered a lecture:

Originally Posted by SugarCane
fc, what could your husband do for you to make you happy in your marriage? I don't get the feeling that you are happy in your marriage and I wonder what is missing for you. MB is all about identifying such issues and working on them.

I don't mean things like letting you work outside the home, which would in fact take you away from the marriage, and which is nothing to do with the way he behaves towards you. I mean in his daily interactions with you. What needs is he not meeting as well as you'd like, or what love busters is he committing?

I'm not picking on you SugarCane, but I know this particular one makes her bristle.


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This one too:

Originally Posted by Prisca
Originally Posted by Prisca
Quote
I told our son's friend he could come over without asking FTF first. He was asleep since it was so early in the am. I knew I was doing it but I did it anyway.
What is your plan to do away with the independent behavior?
How is your UA? Are you enjoying it? How many hours are you getting? Doing what?

Please answer this.

Last edited by FightTheFight; 08/12/14 09:48 AM.

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This one seems more obvious to me:

Originally Posted by Prisca
Originally Posted by feuillecouleur
We are struggling with the SF lesson. Having trouble with the willingness and arousal stages.

For the moment, let's forget about the arousal problem.

Do you care for your husband? Do you understand that this is a vital way of showing your care for him?
Do you believe that it is important that you meet the SF need for your husba
nd?

Are you willing to meet it, but are uncomfortable or unable to do so? Or do you hope the problem just goes away? I'd like to know your honest reactions to these questions.

As for arousal, what are you doing to work on this problem?


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Originally Posted by mrEureka
Pretty much by definition, a lecture is not comprised of questions.

This sentence by itself is probably considered a lecture.


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I don't see anything that SugarCane wrote that seems rude on a forum where people post for advice.
This isnt a social club where we discuss the weather over coffee, this is a place for realistic advice.


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Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I don't see anything that SugarCane wrote that seems rude on a forum where people post for advice.
This isnt a social club where we discuss the weather over coffee, this is a place for realistic advice.

I didn't say it was. It doesn't really matter what you or I or anyone else thinks. I'm just relaying the message that she sees those things as a lecture and that's why she will not post. It's just the way it is.


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It also means I have to be very careful with my words when discussing issues with her. It's very easy for disagreement to turn into a lecture.


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Originally Posted by FightTheFight
It also means I have to be very careful with my words when discussing issues with her. It's very easy for disagreement to turn into a lecture.

BUT... we don't have to be that cautious. We are not trying to fill her love bank so we can ask the tough questions. How about asking her to get back here and discuss it? She seems to have a single minded obsession with "getting out of the house" which makes me very leery. If she had the same obsession with fixing her marriage, I have no doubt that you would have the best marriage on the board!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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She is worried about getting a "lecture" because she knows she can't bull**** us into thinking she is serious about saving her marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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