I have been putting my keys where they belong when I get home each day since it is an LB when I leave them elsewhere...that's something

Markos, do you have a thread for your marriage recovery? I would be interested in reading it, as it is a success story that does not deal with infidelity.

Well a big part of it winds up being told in Dr. Harley's forum for the Marriage Builders seminar. It's really scattered. Basically we had to learn to quit fighting! My original thread just sort of leaves off in the middle of everything. Eventually I stopped posting day to day events that were frustrating me and started focusing really hard on handling those day to day events without becoming demanding, disrespectful, or angry. That is really the main thing. Amazingly enough it really all does come down to eliminating love bank withdrawals and learning to make massive love bank deposits every day in a way that is sustainable (a way that you are enthusiastic about long term).

2010 - we come to Marriage Builders, start phone coaching with Steve Harley, attend the seminar in May. Major ups and downs as I "eliminate" demands, disrespect, and anger - then turn right around become demanding, disrespectful, and angry about my unmet emotional needs. (I was under the misimpression I would instantly see a lot more effort from my wife when I'd gone a short time without those love busters.) Marriage Builders Radio starts back up after a two year hiatus, and I start listening near-daily. The year ends on a down after major angry outbursts on my part.

2011 - early in the year some friends from MB help Prisca decide to reveal to me she started an emotional affair on Facebook in late 2010. With that out and gone, I assume things are going to start getting better, but they don't. I finally follow Dr. Harley's recommendation to seek anger management which I've been hearing him say over and over on the radio for a year. Again, ups and downs. We get into a fitness program at a gym with childcare and start exercising together a lot, which helps immensely. In August Prisca nearly has a panic attack fearing that I am going to leave her. In one of my angry outbursts over her independent behavior, I tell her that's what I'm going to do. I go on Marriage Builders Radio and things look up after that as I follow through with Dr. Harley's recommendations for always letting Prisca back out of agreements. By November I'm on cloud 9, and Prisca seems to be as well, but it's still very fragile because we both tend to become disrespectful and angry when there is conflict.

2012 - things get gradually happier until May, when I have an angry outburst and Prisca asks me to leave. I spend a few days in a Super 8 motel, and before coming back I agree that if I ever have another angry outburst, I will be out of the house again. The next angry outburst comes a month or two later, and I spend a few weeks in the Super 8. One of the lowest points in my life. After coming home we have an uneasy peace: at that time I still feel like a lot of my complaints have never been addressed and aren't going to be. Instead of angry outbursts I withdraw. By December I am feeling like giving up. And again I remember what I've heard Dr. Harley say over and over on the radio, and I ask myself why I'm not following it: I make an appointment to see a doctor for antidepressants in January. After all, I feel like there is no solution to my problem, which is a sure sign of depression! And I need to be able to think rationally enough to see a solution, and to stick to that solution even though my emotions are prompting me to do otherwise.

I should mention that during through all this time it was ups and downs, ups and downs, all the time. We had LOTS and LOTS of fun times: working out together in the gym, taking trips as a family, driving late at night after the kids were asleep talking or listening to (and talking about) Marriage Builders Radio, chatting during the day. We kept seeing moments when things were great followed by disaster over conflict.

2013 - I start taking antidepressants. I quit sacrificing and just started focusing on replicating what we were doing when we had good times together, all the time, and never being demanding, disrespectful, or angry. I learned for the first time to complain respectfully, without being demanding, disrespectful, or angry. I learned to survive when Prisca was withdrawn or disrespectful, and I learned how to stay calm when things were good and she suddenly became withdrawn or disrespectful again. A few times Prisca got pretty mad over my complaints, but I simply made them and moved on to another subject, not allowing myself to dwell on the frustration I felt over her response, and instead moving on to the next thing that would make me (and hopefully Prisca) happy.
Prisca was particularly upset when I informed her I wasn't enthusiastic about our plans for our anniversary, and told her honestly I didn't feel like celebrating. But after awhile we put together a plan for something we could do to celebrate that I was enthusiastic about, and she was, as well. By the time our anniversary arrived, we were pretty happy. A month later, I decided to try going off of the antidepressants, planning to stick very heavily to the new habits I had developed of staying calm when I felt frustrated.

We went on to have the best year of our lives up to that point. For Christmas 2013 I bought Prisca a beautiful Christmas card that I thought really summed up Marriage Builders. On the outside it said:

You're the best thing that ever happened to me.
I just want you to know that.
I can't stop feeling thankful for your sweetness and your gentle ways.
Can't imagine not being with you today...
and tomorrow...
and every tomorrow beyond that.

On the inside it said:
I love you more than I can tell you,
and I want to spend my life trying to be
the best thing that ever happened to you.

Christmas morning I opened the card Prisca had bought for me, and it was the exact same card.

I couldn't find the post, but I found where I had a copy of the list:

Ways to engage in disrespectful judgments:
sarcasm
criticism
judgment: stating that their perspective is wrong
"should"
lecturing/attempting to educate
gestures, facial expressions? body language?
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2531712#Post2531712
expressing surprise or shock at an opinion or feeling or belief
saying that something is "obvious" (in other words, you "should" realize this or "should" know it)
disrespecting your spouse's feelings instead of accepting the fact that they do feel that way

guilting, shaming
hyperbolizing
always/never
exaggerated words
scolding
name-calling, labelling
saying or doing something you know your spouse identifies as disrespectful

comparisons: if I had done such a horrible thing as you, I'd be doing more to make up for it

defensiveness

minimizing -- "just" -- you just say that because ... [Translation: I don't have to address your complaint.]
psychoanalyzing your spouse
explaining away your spouse's feelings or complaints

attributing motivations
blaming, fault-finding
expecting them to read your mind


I statements may help, but are not an excuse for a disrespectful judgment:
I feel like (DJ)
I feel unloved.
I feel like you don't love me.

The underlined part is a very astute observation; thanks for posting your history for others to learn from.

That must have been quite a moment for both of you. I love that story!

I had an EA.

Regardless, the recovery path is almost identical.

Not to bring up old wounds... but can you describe what made it an EA. I see so many "EA" definitions all over the place, but curious what classified it as such in your situation. If too personal please just ignore.

My EA: A romantic relationship, hidden from my husband, with another man who I allowed to meet my emotional needs and with whom I fell in love. I felt a strong emotional bond, and was so addicted I neglected my own children to spend time with him.

Why do you ask?

Thanks for sharing that story Markos. It is inspirational to see that you have come so far.

Looking at the list you provided shows how many things we say daily that are disrespectful...

Basically to help me understand what had happened to me and what to call it. Whether my wife just had a good friendship with OS or an EA with OS... and what actually constitutes an EA.

For example, I have had female friends in the past before marriage that I was not in love with, just good friends, and yes they met some needs like conversation and recreational time together (playing tennis and exercise and having meals together), BUT never had intimate thoughts (sexual or lust). Just friends and I know in my heart just friends. Now I would not have that sort of friendship now that I am married, but if I did (besides it being risky) would it be classified as EA having that sort of friendship... or just be classified as being risky and playing with fire.

Because that is what my wife said she had. Just a friendship, no lust, no sexual thoughts, no feelings of love, no talking about our marriage. Just talked about her work and our kids in general. Had lunch with him every several weeks and other times with multiple guys, had a large number of hours together at work due to project (hospital atmosphere), did hide it from me, but also hid other stuff because we did not see eye to eye and she is a conflict avoider so it was easier for her to avoid it and just do what she thought was not wrong in her eyes and that was having lunch with a friend. No evidence ever found after snooping that indicated more than a friendship... BUT we were in a very bad place (getting better now) and to me it felt like EA regardless of whether lust or physical desire or even love feelings had developed YET.

I don't want to distract from the OP original topic, but that was why I asked when I saw your post.

As a general rule, Dr. Harley believes there should be no opposite sex friendships in marriage

I do not believe that I ever brought up OS friends in my relationship. This is not a problem for either of us.

How did your last several evenings go?

How are your new filters working out?

Last couple nights were pretty good. Tuesday she visited her cousin with the kids, and when she got home we put the kids to bed and talked outside for a couple hours.

Last night I came home with flowers and a bottle of wine, then I went for a run with her and the kids. I actually ran WITH her instead of running ahead. Normally I can do a 5k in a 7:30 or so pace and she is more like a 9:00, so we don't usually go together. But she was not all that motivated until I said I would go with her, and it made her happy.

Overall it was mainly a success thinking about each action in terms of whether or not it would make her feel special.

Wonderful!!!!

Great update. Awesomeness.

What a huge difference! Way to go!

Hi,
In addition to this great list, I remember reading quite a while ago and finding helpful - I think it was in one of Markos' old posts - something like:

It is disrespectful to make judgments about a person's character, abilities or intentions.

Couple issues over the weekend. Both regarding enthusiastic agreement. We went furniture shopping and we were going to eat afterward. Looking at couches, her and I didn't really like the same thing, but I was telling her why I liked the smaller one over the larger one. She told me that she agreed and we should get it later.

Then she mentioned that she was hungry. We originally had decided to try a new restaurant that was an hour away and wasn't open until dinnertime. I asked where she wanted to go, and she said you probably want to try that place, so lets go there.

We were going to go home and switch cars first, and on the way she just got all mad at me for making her wait to eat, that I wasnt't listening, its all about what I want. Then we get home and she doesn't want to go anywhere now. She tells me that I have to get my way about everything, and that I forced my view on her for the couch and for dinner.

So she is so subtle about saying what she wants, or she will agree with me, then get mad later that I didn't do what she wanted. I have told her many times that if she does or does not want to do something to just tell me, but she thinks that she is telling me. I just find it difficult when she reluctantly agrees, but does not "act" like it is reluctant.

Did you handle it calmly and respectfully, without an AO? If you really think about it, how can you turn this from a setback into a growth opportunity?

I did not have an AO, and after a short time she was willing to negotiate a solution with me.

My issue is that in this scenario she made a statement that she was hungry, and during her AO told me that I am supposed to know that means she wants to go eat now. I want her to tell me directly what she wants, and then if I don't listen then she has a valid complaint. If she beats around the bush, I just take the comments at face value, then get in trouble.

I have asked her to tell me directly what she wants to do, but she thinks she is.