It would be foolish for you to go along with with her getting a job under the present conditions. It would be exceedingly risky. The same desire for independence that drives her job obsession will make her vulnerable to another affair. That's all there is to it.

If she where in love with you, then the desire for independence would be less, and she probably wouldn't care so much about getting a job, either. But having a job would be safer, because she would be on board with observing the necessary EPs.

As to her resenting MB advice, that's what one would expect from anybody whose desires are intrinsically wayward. It is not a good sign.

Did you get AD?

Self sacrifice gets old after a while, doesn't it?
Are you still willing to be celibate for the rest of your life?

Not yet. I have to see a different provider than I saw last time so I had to reschedule. I should get a call back either this afternoon or tomorrow afternoon with a confirmation. But I'm on it.

Dr Harley keeps reminding me of this although I believe my words were "That sounds a little extreme, but...". It was during one of our radio calls with him.

I did ask him what he thought the consequences of such a position would be but he did not answer that question. I assume because he believes going down that line of thought is a distraction from solving the problem.

His bottom line was "there are many steps that you can both take together that might eliminate that possibility"

They key "if" is the willingness of both of you to follow the program.

The impression I have always gotten from her posts is that she is treated like a child and is just in cruise control for now.

I dont understand why it's taking so long to get anti depressants. That's normally recommended from day1

That's always ultimately the case isn't it?


Are you saying you believe I treat my wife like a child?


I haven't wanted to do it. My coach has asked me if I thought an Ad would be helpful, although I don't get the feeling that she believes either of us need them. Maybe we don't give that impression when talking to her over the phone. As for me, I can go for what seems like a long time feeling kind of OK and then one day I fall into a hole. So it's not as if I am "depressed" all of the time. I am hoping that the ADs might just eliminate the holes.

That's what they are intended to do. The holes are very, very destructive.

No. I meant that is how I think she feels, based on her posts.
Like a teenager that is told if he can or cant get a summer job.

But when a person is confronted with a situation like this in marriage, the solution is not to diagnose one's spouse as acting like a child. The solution to the problem has ultimately got to make both husband and wife happy. Dismissing your spouse's viewpoint with a disrespectful label will prevent you from being able to do the brainstorming you need to be able to do in order to negotiate a successful solution that both spouses feel is a win.

I would never describe Fc as a child or acting like a child. She describes herself as selfish. But that's not a bad word. We're all selfish. After all, I've heard Dr Harley say on the radio that people get married in the first place for selfish reasons.

I underlined the part above because Fc told me on Tuesday she didn't think that fixing our relationship would make her happy. It stands to reason that this hurts her motivation quite a bit.

Well, both of you have been advised to seek anti depressants for more than a year! When you are depressed, the glass is always half empty

ADs will certainly help with destructiveness if they smooth out my emotions. Of course they will not solve the problem by themselves, just make it more tolerable.

I just heard Dr Harley's reply to RQ's email on the radio. Not sure if that was from yesterday or today?

At first, I thought it sounded like Fc, but then I realized who it was. I know how to solve that problem. If Fc had those kind of complaints, I could actually do something about it.

I actually thought we had come to a solution that we could both agree to. Our state offers an online virtual public school. Fc expressed an interest in doing this and I agreed. So she took the required class (also online) to be able to do it. The next step is to work as an assistant teacher (all online) to another teacher teaching an online class.

Well, she went through all of the paperwork to apply for that after completing her online class and months later got a reply asking her to submit references. It took a bit of thinking to find people for references that were not associated with her last job, but we did it. She sent all of the paperwork in and never heard anything back. She probably won't since school is starting for the Fall.

We also had the idea that she could teach at the local community college. At least this would be a different environment. But that requires that she go back to school and get yet another Masters degree in a different subject. I was OK with us spending the money to get that done, but she was not really enthusiastic about it. She still feels like she doesn't contribute and doesn't really want to spend "my" money. I understand how she feels. We lead very independent financial lives prior to having to leave her job.

But now the advice is to drop all of that and fix us first. She is defeated at every turn. First, she can't go back to her previous job, next she doesn't get selected for this online job, and then after that she is told here not to get a job at all.

So I can understand why she doesn't like the advice. It is kind of trumping what we had agreed to in the first place. But it's like I expressed to Dr Harley. On one hand I have an expert telling me I should do one thing, and my wife wanting something else.

How am I supposed to help Fc solve her problems if what she wants isn't POJAable?

Yes, I remember that too.

You need to be honest. With yourself and with her.

That's the issue.
She is reluctantly following the POJA in refusing to get a job but its causing her to not be enthusiastic about meting your needs or investing in the marriage.

I understand independent behavior. I was raised by parents who lived independent lives and didn't understand integrated marriages until I read Dr. Harley's book.

It's a hard behavior to break.

Me too. My parents had separate jobs and bank accounts. They split the bills. One paid for some things and the other paid for other things. My parents did not even sleep in the same bed that I can ever remember. I remember asking them when I was a child why they never kissed. I also remember as a small child hearing my mother tell another adult that after awhile marriage was more about companionship than romance. Basically that love fades, which is a popular notion. (That's one of the major reasons I like Dr Harley's work so much because he disproves this.) No idea why that stuck in my head, but when people say that children pick up on things, I believe them because I remember doing it myself.

Fc's parents did have a joint banking account, but it lead to fighting in their marriage. Fights about who spent what where and so on.

So it was natural for us in the very beginning to adopt my parent's model of finances. Unfortunately, that reflected on everything else we did.

But it's not like that now. Everything is combined, but of course I'm the only one working full time outside the home. Fc does work after all. In fact, I've found that I really enjoy the fact that she is there to run the home. Plus, I always know our children are well cared for. The family home is such a big part of living a quality life, and having one person dedicated to maintaining it makes life pretty good from my perspective. Of course, if it is a job she would rather not do, I can understand that as well. I just wanted to express that it IS appreciated even if it's "forced".

I finally have an appointment for Thursday morning. I believe I may have just as big a problem with anxiety. Although I have been reading, and anxiety and depression sometimes go together. I've been having some scary symptoms lately like heart palpitations. It's freaking me out, but I think it's just stress.

Fc is scheduled to see her doctor tomorrow.

I've also been lifting weights to address the issue of PA. I'm only two week in, but I decided I would exhaust all of the advice offered to me. This one is slower to show results but it's at least started.

Give it all you have, FTF. You never know if this one might help turn the tides.