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I already addressed this. We asked; he doesn't want to move.

I get it...my wife choosing to ignore an EP, not follow POJA as Dr. Harley stated, is all my (our) fault because we've chosen not to move.

And I have wasted all of your time and energy trying to negotiate a solution trying to make the best of a bad situation for the next two years.

I need a break. I'm so tired and worn from all if these things affair related. And frankly, kinda getting getting tired of this life, generally.

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Originally Posted By: helpfordad
I already addressed this. We asked; he doesn't want to move.


So he is ok with his parents getting divorced? How ridiculous is that? Kids change schools all the time and it does not harm them. But the break up of a marriage DOES. It is unfathomable you would subject the child to a divorce but not subject him to changing schools.

That doesnt make any sense.

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And I have wasted all of your time and energy trying to negotiate a solution trying to make the best of a bad situation for the next two years.


But you arent trying to solve the problem, though. That is what is so puzzling. You are trying to find ways to perpetuate the problem.

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I need a break. I'm so tired and worn from all if these things affair related.


Welcome to your future. But it is a future of your own choosing. You can choose differently.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Which is harder on children?

1. changing schools

2. parents getting divorced

think


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I have ZERO patience for people who choose the easier, softer way and then have the gall to complain when they are smacked with the consequences. That is all that is happening here. And you CONTINUE to choose the easier, softer way. It is unbelievable.

WE have so very many people who picked up and moved away who are in recovered, happy, fulfilling marriages. I don't know of any couple who does not love their new life after moving. But I have seen so many who are in terrible marriages because they didn't.

To move is short term pain for long term gain. To NOT MOVE is short term pain and long term pain. AS you have learned the hard way.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: mrEureka
[The failure of your marriage is totally avoidable. It is nobody's fault but your own. Stop blaming circumstances. Own the path you are choosing.


yep!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I understand. I do.

Thank you for your insights.

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Originally Posted By: helpfordad
I already do what you suggested. But walk after walk after walk does really meet any of my ENs either. There are other means of spending UA time that I'd like to do. I feel as the BS in all of this, I should be "allowed" that, no?


Walk after walk after walk is also not meeting your wife's emotional needs, either.

You guys aren't friends at all. You don't have her best interests at heart and rarely talk about what would make her happy.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: helpfordad
Melody,

Markos, blackraven, JK, etc. have provided feedback for what they see as my "options" at this point.

What are my options at this point as you see them, in my current situation? I need to hear what you'd consider doing if this were you.

Thank you.


MelodyLane would use the Marriage Builders program to recover her marriage!!!!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Quote:
Again, I just don't understand how the onus is on the BS to "make" the WS follow the rules of the program that Dr. Harley sets out as the rules for the WS.

Nobody told you that it was up to you to make her follow the rules.
You CAN'T make her do anything. To try would be a Lpvebuster, and would fail in the end.
You were told to offer her an incentive to follow the rules, to show her what's in it for her.

THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE.

By this point, you should also probably stop referring to yourself as the betrayed spouse and her as the wayward. The focus should be totally on recovery, not her affair. And in recovery, it is up to you, the husband, to offer incentive to your reluctant wife.


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Prisca,

I am trying to understand your point. I guess I'm reading Dr. Harley's point differently or something.

Going back to the start, when an affair has ended and the WS has committed to recovering the marriage and to the MB program, according to Dr. Harley, it is the BS who establishes Extraordinary Precautions in order to provide care and protection for the betrayed spouse. Agreed?

Well, I did that. (actually, I acquiesced on that, because the affair occurred in a hospital -- conditions of the affair -- that working in a hospital alone is an emotional trigger. But hfm wouldn't agree to that). So, I POJA'd that -- which Dr. Harley states are non-negotiable -- and the EP became "will not work on OM's county".

So, HFM chose to violate that EP, as well as POJA, as Dr. Harley stated in his response.

I just don't understand how then it falls to the former BS to incentivize for the former WS the rules set out by Dr. Harley for the former WS to follow as outlined at the beginning of the recovery process.

As Dr. Harley stated to us: she's not showing empathy or care or a commitment to the marriage or to me by choosing to ignore the EP and POJA in making this decision. He called her decision an Independent Behavior that would negatively affect the marriage.

No where in his response to us did he mention that I must "win her back" to following the basics of the program that a FWS agrees to for the FBS to remain in the marriage in the first place.

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Originally Posted By: helpfordad
Prisca,

I am trying to understand your point. I guess I'm reading Dr. Harley's point differently or something.

Going back to the start, when an affair has ended and the WS has committed to recovering the marriage and to the MB program, according to Dr. Harley, it is the BS who establishes Extraordinary Precautions in order to provide care and protection for the betrayed spouse. Agreed?

Well, I did that. (actually, I acquiesced on that, because the affair occurred in a hospital -- conditions of the affair -- that working in a hospital alone is an emotional trigger. But hfm wouldn't agree to that). So, I POJA'd that -- which Dr. Harley states are non-negotiable -- and the EP became "will not work on OM's county".

So, HFM chose to violate that EP, as well as POJA, as Dr. Harley stated in his response.

I just don't understand how then it falls to the former BS to incentivize for the former WS the rules set out by Dr. Harley for the former WS to follow as outlined at the beginning of the recovery process.

As Dr. Harley stated to us: she's not showing empathy or care or a commitment to the marriage or to me by choosing to ignore the EP and POJA in making this decision. He called her decision an Independent Behavior that would negatively affect the marriage.

No where in his response to us did he mention that I must "win her back" to following the basics of the program that a FWS agrees to for the FBS to remain in the marriage in the first place.


But the very basics of the MB program, when followed by betrayed husbands, is that the husband still has work to do to win his wife back IF he chooses the recovery path. If you wait for your wife to offer JC without leading the way, recovery very often will not work.

It may not seem fair, but Dr. Harley says that in both cases, a wayward husband AND a betrayed husband, that the husband has the work of winning over the wife IF recovery is what is wanted.

And to recover a marriage, the marriage has to be much much better than it ever was, even better than it was in the beginning of the marriage. Or it's not really recovery.

Sure the EPs are non-negotiable, and by negotiating on them, you capitulated.

But from what you've said, you've also capitulated on UA time spent doing fun things you both really enjoy.


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No where in his response to us did he mention that I must "win her back" to following the basics of the program that a FWS agrees to for the FBS to remain in the marriage in the first place.



Don't know how to do the quotes but it is all here.

She is not agreeing and you are still remaining.


Nobody has said that you must "win her back". They have simply said that you have 2 choices.....leave, go to plan B

OR

Attempt to get her reengaged in the program by "winning her back"

She has no interest in protecting or caring for you because there is nothing in it for her and nothing negative to happen if she doesn't.

Why would someone participate in a grueling, painful exercise program? Either a doctor has informed them they will die or become severely incapacitated (they have something to lose)
or they want to have a gorgeous body and feel healthy and active or excel at a sport (something to gain).

Your wife has neither incentive to participate.

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hfd, when is she supposed to start the new job?

Are you going to make a decision without it being dependent on polling the posters?


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Ok, so I think I understand.

And I guess maybe I need to accept that with all the BS she's put me through, and all of the hard work just to end her affair, and all the hard work to try to get us into recovery, and all the hard wotk been the only one even making an attempt to have UA time / meet ENs...

...that I am either just too emotionally drained and spent or too apathetic toward the whole thing(or lazy, or whatever put down that'll come my way now)to put even more work in for a person who, honestly, never really bought into the program to build a new marriage (no NC letter, trickle-truth, etc.), and continues -- according to Dr. Harley -- to violate the basic tenets of the program.

My wife cheated on me and 4 years later it's my fault she's working 7 miles from the OM. And I'm mentally, spiritually done, I'm exhausted and tired of rowing in circles.

Maybe that's just my sad reality, and I need to decide what action I should do next.

I appreciate the feedback. Thank you!

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Sorry, BR...you are correct.

I usually like to hear back from a select few, even when they're tough on me -- Mel and Marital and JK especially -- as I consider things.

I really don't know when she starts -- she's been mad at me since I shared my feelings on Friday (when I became a "bad husband" for not being happy for her or supporting her new job)and I've received very little conversation from her, even though I've tried initiating, no affection...she's pretty much ignored since I told her I'm not enthusiastic about her decision and feel hurt becasue it doesn't show care.

HFM relistened to Dr. Harley's response and agreed to a GPS in the car, phone, and even offered to wear a GPS bracelet...that really doesn't make me feel any better to be honest.

Anyway, seems like I can either leave my own bedroom (or the house), and just remove myself from the pain of her IB and ignoring the EP and "tread water" for 2 years...or, file for divorce and cut it off now and be done.

I really don't know what I'm going to do. I'm sad at it all, and all of it going away does not sound too bad sometimes.

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Originally Posted By: helpfordad


HFM relistened to Dr. Harley's response and agreed to a GPS in the car, phone, and even offered to wear a GPS bracelet...that really doesn't make me feel any better to be honest.


That will be worthless. Even the dumbest wayward knows how to get around that.

Quote:
Anyway, seems like I can either leave my own bedroom (or the house), and just remove myself from the pain of her IB and ignoring the EP and "tread water" for 2 years...or, file for divorce and cut it off now and be done.


hfd, what is the point of waiting 2 years? I don't understand this 2 year time line. She will not magically become a wayward who engages in recovery and cares about your feelings in 2 years. And you and I both know that no one is going to move.

Seems to me that you are kicking the can down the road for some imaginary magic that is going to happen in 2 years.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Quote:
As Dr. Harley stated to us: she's not showing empathy or care or a commitment to the marriage or to me by choosing to ignore the EP and POJA in making this decision.

You keep going back to this.
Dr. Harley has also said that it is very common for most people to NOT have empathy for others. It's just human nature.

You don't need her empathy to recover.

If you want to recover, YOU are going to have to give her a reason to care for you. If you do not, then because she does not empathy for you (very common), she will have no reason to care. She needs a reason, just like anybody else does.

You also seem focused on placing blame. Either it's her fault because she doesn't have empathy, or it's your fault, because it must be SOMEBODY'S FAULT. Stop trying to place blame -- that is not marriage builders.

Quote:
No where in his response to us did he mention that I must "win her back" to following the basics of the program that a FWS agrees to for the FBS to remain in the marriage in the first place.

Dr. Harley talks about this all the time on the radio show. If you have spent the last 4 years here listening, you would know. You have been here as long as markos -- you have had the exact same opportunity for education as he has. Yet your knowledge remains on the level of a newbie. You have wasted these years.


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I was just sharing what Dr. Harley stated most recently in his response to the email I was encouraged to send to him.

Yes, I'm kicking the can down the road for 2 years until I can move away from this place, and away from hfm if need be, at that time.

Doesn't sound like much of a plan, but I've gotten through 4 years, so what's 2 more? I can do it.

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So you're going with Plan C? Dr. Harley wouldn't recommend that at all.


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I suppose that's my default; make the best of it.

Dr. Harley also wouldn't recommend negotiating established EPs but that doesn't seem to be the issue, apparently.

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