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Last edited by Denali; 09/18/14 10:06 PM. Reason: TOS
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Sir, here are some videos you can watch which may help:

Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight

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Wow, really good stuff here. I'll be dead honest. I can see the need for getting her emotionally in the mood as far as what a woman needs. But in all honesty, I get left holding so much of the weight of our lives that I don't have that energy left. I just watch a great Christian movie called 'Moms night out' where the woman was so overly burdened she was snapping. In our house, that is reversed. I do the man stuff and most of the woman stuff. Now you are telling me I need to do more?! Not gonna happen. If you tell me I won't get sex if I don't do more, I'm really ok with that. On the flip side, I can begin to remove my love busters. My wife does not have a track record of reciprocity EVER... so I guess we will just play this out and see if me feeding the love bank and not making love buster withdrawals does anything. So far, nadda ever.

I have one other issue with all of this and that is about the inequity of sex. When does SHE spend hours getting me in the mood for sex? When does she do the equivalent of pouring into me and meeting my sexual needs? It sounds like this is all one sided. That I am supposed to be happy that she 'let' me have sex after I earned it. When does she earn it?

This isn't about being combative on here. I'm really hoping someone tells me that if I do all of this, she will reciprocate but I'm not getting that message.

When I was swinging, I found women who go all out on making sex good for me. That's just their personality... to give back and reciprocate. Simply because they were swingers does not negate the fact that they didn't feel sex was 100% about them.

I really hope someone makes sense in that sex isn't just about meeting her emotional needs THEN I might, just maybe have sex. If that is really the case, I'm out... no more women in my life.

If, however, sex is truly mutual, then she should be taking 4-5 hours to meet my needs for sex as well. Otherwise, sure, if you never get what you want and always give, the other person will be happy. Well, I hate sex right now. I hated it before porn and swinging. It sucked. She put no effort into it. I had to do all this work for a lame duck. Sorry, I am having a hard time conceptualizing what it is that happens after I do what you say i should.

Let me get this straight... I spend hours meeting her emotional needs and put somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-1 ratio into this to 'maybe' have sex? And then the sex is horrible because it's all about her and none of what I like is in the picture? I don't like to kiss... never did. It's not gross or wrong, just not me... so lets say that I make out with her because this makes her feel good and she wants it - just as an example... what does she do for me? Lay there? Allow me to use her for sex at that point? What part of this has me anywhere in it?

Please don't knee jerk react to my misgivings. I need someone to actually spell out what one of these nights of emotional need meeting is supposed to play out like.

Maybe if you roll played my part. Tell me what I theoretically would do and how I'd do it then what would that result be specifically. Not 'you get sex'. Tell me what it's really like.

Here is what I see happening. I spend a night totally 100% focused on her needs. I make sure she feels all the things I am being told she needs to feel for sex(assume I got it right). At the end of that, I am not supposed to expect sex. If it's been weeks, tough crud for me... all that matters is her needs. Then when we have sex, it's really terrible sex. The more my wife gets her needs met, the more she thinks I only like what she likes. Honestly, if you told me I can have ultra sensual sex or no sex, I'd pick no sex unless there were 50% of the times where I was the focus just like I did for her in the above scenario. If you are telling me, sex is that one sides, I'll get a dog, move out and at least not be taken advantage of. I thought I was part of this and not just a tool used for her pleasure alone.

Incidentally, Of all the women I have slept with, most aren't as selfish in bed. And I disagree... non sensual sex is not wrong... it's just a different style.

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You know what... I guess the book was supposed to be called, 'Her needs, Her needs'.

I'm not seeing a different title. Someone please, please, please SHOW me where my needs are being met. 20-1 ratio is not equitable.

My wife puts no effort into me. She would NEVER put 4-5 hours into earning her needs being met.

I'm so depressed at all of this. If this is really the case, then what's the point?

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Whew... not sure how to cope with this level of inequity. This will take some time to swallow let alone want to have sex with a woman who requires such inequity.

Ladies. What if the tables were turned? What if you had to have sex for 4-5 hours and if you did one little thing wrong to ruin my mood, you couldn't get me to meet your emotional need. I'd bet any money, you would run for the hills.

Either my wife puts hour for hour the effort into sex that I do and hour for hour the effort I put into emotional needs, then I'm ok ending it. I'm not here to be used.


Last edited by codrdave; 09/19/14 02:25 PM.
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Jedi Knight... You seem to have an even view of this. Any chance you can show me where I fit into this? I'm pretty close to swearing off women.

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Have you read all the Basic Concepts on this site? Have you read through both books, "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters?"

Nothing in a passionate, romantic, mutually fulfilling marriage is one-sided; it's about both spouses being very happy in every decision, with each EN.

The fact that you both got into swinging and affairs in your marriage, even though those marriage-wrecking behaviors have now ended, shows what a lack of care you both experienced in your relationship. Also, the contrast effect continues to this day. You are comparing what you got in swinging with marriage. Most wives simply will not engage in sex they don't enjoy, because they know it's not sustainable.

The first thing any spouse who wants a great marriage must do is to end all the love busters. It won't matter what a great husband you think you are by doing household chores or anything else you do for your wife if you also have angry outbursts, make selfish demands, or are judgmental of her.

So first, read all the articles and Basic Concepts
Next, read through the HNHN and LB books.
Meanwhile, start listening to the free radio show.

It takes two to create a great marriage, but you can prime the pump. Stop complaining about all she is doing and not doing and start working on learning what it will take to create a great marriage.


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I know Christian women who are sex machines and don't require all this bologna of uber emotional taking at such an inequitable level.

I just want a woman who thinks sex is fun and good for just being sex. I found women like that outside of the church in spades. They weren't selfish... they felt it was supposed to be equitable. I only need one to be even with...

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Here's a really good thread about relationships based on the book Dr. Harley wrote called "Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders." Even though my H and I have been married for over 34 years, we still found it very helpful and enlightening.

Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders


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Originally Posted By: codrdave
I know Christian women who are sex machines and don't require all this bologna of uber emotional taking at such an inequitable level.

I just want a woman who thinks sex is fun and good for just being sex. I found women like that outside of the church in spades. They weren't selfish... they felt it was supposed to be equitable. I only need one to be even with...


But MOST women like to make love because they feel bonded to their husbands, NOT because they are "sex machines." Being Christian has nothing to do with it.

This is one of the (many) problems with swinging.


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I've read the book and watched a lot of videos. I read a lot.

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Originally Posted By: codrdave
I've read the book and watched a lot of videos. I read a lot.


Do you plan to incorporate any of your learning into your behavior?


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Without being inappropriate, what do you do to MEET your husbands sexual needs. I'm not talking about what he earned... what do you decide to do simply because you love him and he needs it?

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I'm going to take a break from this topic to cool off... I'll read anything you all have to say. I sooo appreciate the candor. I really like being told I'm off my rocker. I can't say I swallow it, but I am really considering all of these points and am willing to realize I am dead wrong and need to change. I'm not there yet on the sex issue. But I will keep your words in my heart as I process.

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Originally Posted By: codrdave
I know Christian women who are sex machines and don't require all this bologna of uber emotional taking at such an inequitable level.

I just want a woman who thinks sex is fun and good for just being sex. I found women like that outside of the church in spades. They weren't selfish... they felt it was supposed to be equitable. I only need one to be even with...


The first thing to understand is that sex *IS* an emotional issue for women. So eliminating that part makes sex no more interesting than 2 hawgs going at each other in the hawg pen. YUCK I think sex is fun and exciting BECAUSE I am emotionally attached to my husband. I have been in a marriage where I was not in love with my husband and I could not stand for him to TOUCH ME. sick

So, if you want a woman to enjoy sex with you, you have to make sure she is in love with you. Otherwise it is about as attractive as 2 hawgs going at it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: codrdave
Without being inappropriate, what do you do to MEET your husbands sexual needs. I'm not talking about what he earned... what do you decide to do simply because you love him and he needs it?


I meet all his most important ENs, including that of SF, because he has created an incredibly loving and caring environment for me. I am very much in love with my H, after 30 years of NOT being in love, and I'm in love with him because of the care he shows for me and because he meets my ENs and has eliminated his love busters.

MB is about "I will meet your needs AND you will meet my needs."

I do what makes me happy AND also makes him happy simultaneously. He is very happy in this regard and often tells me so. I don't do anything in SF that I don't enjoy, because I want SF to be enjoyable for me AND for my H. As much as I am in love with my H, if he were to ask me for anything I didn't want to do (because I don't also enjoy it) then I would not do it.


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Originally Posted By: codrdave
Wow, really good stuff here. I'll be dead honest. I can see the need for getting her emotionally in the mood as far as what a woman needs. But in all honesty, I get left holding so much of the weight of our lives that I don't have that energy left. I just watch a great Christian movie called 'Moms night out' where the woman was so overly burdened she was snapping. In our house, that is reversed. I do the man stuff and most of the woman stuff. Now you are telling me I need to do more?! Not gonna happen.


I am not reading the rest of your overly long post because it is not relevant to the issue. Your best thinking has not helped you one bit, after all, so I know it contains no wisdom.

But I did want to address the first paragraph. You are working HARD but not SMART. You are spinnign your wheels following PLan Dave and it has got you NOWHERE.

Like I was told once in AA, "take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth."

Blogging about your - FAILED - methods are a waste of your time and ours. If you want your marriage to improve, you need to STOP TALKING AND LISTEN.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I kinda said that in my last post. I'm not sure I agree with you 100%, but that might just take time.

I'm sorry for going on and on... but it seems everyone assumes what is close to the opposite of our situation so I felt that detail was nec.

I am going to stop posting and I am watching the videos plus rereading the book. To be honest, If this is a one sided endeavor again, I can't sustain that again.

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I think you will find the videos helpful

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Originally Posted By: codrdave
I kinda said that in my last post. I'm not sure I agree with you 100%, but that might just take time.

I'm sorry for going on and on... but it seems everyone assumes what is close to the opposite of our situation so I felt that detail was nec.

I am going to stop posting and I am watching the videos plus rereading the book. To be honest, If this is a one sided endeavor again, I can't sustain that again.


A great marriage is not one-sided, although you might have to be the one to start the work of eliminating your love busters. A love buster, even "small" ones, will wipe out any love bank deposits, so make sure you eliminate those first.


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