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And, I'm still not a pro at this forum stuff. I don't think anybody's asking for professional level forum usage. And I don't think anyone needs an advanced degree to post to a forum. But, I hate to burden the world with my issues. Fine, no problem, burden your wife, instead, right? We are here to help her by helping you understand her. Don't pretend that not seeking regular help for the problems that you are causing her in life is noble, Remark. She is in excruciating pain, caused by you. There are a bunch of us here shouting at her and you that we will help you learn to stop hurting her - and instead of jumping at the chance to receive that help, you take the path of least effort and say you don't want to bother us? This kind of sentence makes it sound like everybody in the world comes before your wife.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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OK, I won't dissapear.
And, I have not said "I try" or "I'm trying" yet since the 25th. I've thought it, of course, but thankfully have not let it pass my lips.
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You should get ahold of the list of extraordinary precautions from Surviving an Affair (my wife posts this list frequently) and make sure you are following each and every one of them. Don't make excuses or exceptions or cut corners. From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67 The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted. These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives. Checklist for How Affairs Should End _____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse. _____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again. _____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse. _____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP: _____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse). _____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers). _____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent). _____Spend leisure time together. _____Change jobs and relocate if necessary. _____Avoid overnight separation. _____Allow technical accountability. _____Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
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Will you agree to stop doing anything that your wife is not enthusiastic about, including seeing your father if that is how she feels? Will you follow this program, or will you make an exception for this?
We need an answer to this question before we can go forward with you. We need an answer to this.
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OK, I won't dissapear.
And, I have not said "I try" or "I'm trying" yet since the 25th. I've thought it, of course, but thankfully have not let it pass my lips. Perfect - this is the first of many habit formation changes you will need to make if you want your wife to be happy in your marriage. Now, we need an answer to this, highest priority: Will you agree to stop doing anything that your wife is not enthusiastic about, including seeing your father if that is how she feels? Will you follow this program, or will you make an exception for this?
We need an answer to this question before we can go forward with you. We need an answer to this.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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OK, I won't dissapear.
And, I have not said "I try" or "I'm trying" yet since the 25th. I've thought it, of course, but thankfully have not let it pass my lips. Perfect - this is the first of many habit formation changes you will need to make if you want your wife to be happy in your marriage. Now, we need an answer to this, highest priority: Will you agree to stop doing anything that your wife is not enthusiastic about, including seeing your father if that is how she feels? Will you follow this program, or will you make an exception for this?
We need an answer to this question before we can go forward with you. We need an answer to this.
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Yes. I have been doing all of the above except spending time with her and accounting for money. Her withdrawal won't permit that. It bums me out, but I can't demand anything.
As for accounting for money, I'll gladly do that as well.
In the past few months, I have given up all my outside independent behaviors [WITHOUT RESENTMENT - that is important ] except one that is with my son (which is Boy Scouts, which meets on the same night, same time, as her classes coincidentally, and I'm doing it for him not myself. He and I made a commitment to that effect. He is pursuing being an Eagle Scout, which is a big deal.) BTW, the three things I have given up as IB were Bible study group, going to church and playing softball with my adult twin daughters on a coed softball team.
I give her a printout list of all my passwords periodically. I am an open book, ashamed of many things in my past, but open to discussing them to put them to bed.
I don't know what any current issue(s) is/are with my family.
Am willing to do whatever necessary to bring closure and enter a new era for a better marital state!
Remark
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In the past few months, I have given up all my outside independent behaviors [WITHOUT RESENTMENT - that is important ] except one that is with my son (which is Boy Scouts, which meets on the same night, same time, as her classes coincidentally, and I'm doing it for him not myself. He and I made a commitment to that effect. He is pursuing being an Eagle Scout, which is a big deal.) BTW, the three things I have given up as IB were Bible study group, going to church and playing softball with my adult twin daughters on a coed softball team. Independent behavior doesn't mean behavior performed alone. It means behavior performed as if your spouse doesn't exist - i.e., she doesn't want you doing it and you do it anyway. How does your wife feel about you doing Boy Scouts with your son? Find out for sure, because we will check with her and make sure you find out accurately. If her feeling about it is not ENTHUSIASM, then are you willing to quit?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I don't know what any current issue(s) is/are with my family. She wasn't enthusiastic about spending Thanksgiving with them, if I understand correctly. Go find out for sure.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Just FYI, I wanted to let everyone know I'll be stepping out. My H just blew off a conversation I was trying to have with him so he could go back to fixing the toilet. He just left to go to the store to get a part. He continued on that course even after I pointed out that he was once again demonstrating to me that I was less important than a toilet.
He's all yours! I'm done.
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I'm back. The leaking toilet is on hold, steadily dripping onto some towels. This is more important, of course.
I also have a couple of emails from her since I left work around 4:00 PM to deal with son and bad toilet.
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Markos,
I understand.
I'm begging for that help. Thank you, by the way.
I'm answering all questions honestly.
I don't know what or if there is a current issue with going to my folks' for Thanksgiving. A week or so prior to Thanksgiving, she suggested that we do the usual Thursday at her brothers' and asked when my family was getting together. My family was getting together Friday and Saturday. So, that what we did. (My family is 6 hours away. Hers is here in town.)
I thought it was as close to POJA as we experience. As mentioned I also had dental work done in the same trip. I had to go alone for that, if need be, but I thought she was OK going up there based on her comments. I'm an early riser, so would have left early Fri if it were up to me or I was asked. But, I left her and son sleep in and we left around 8 am.
I thought I was being sensitive to her wishes.
I don't know what her current reluctance is centered on. I'm trying to find out from her.
remark
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OK, I should not have assumed Thanksgiving holiday was a non-working day in this sense, and emailed Dr H. Clearly, when I realized Thanksgiving was a non-working holiday, I made a mistake thinking it was an inappropriate day to send emails to Dr H.
I am willing to do 15 hours of UA and everything else. You understand that, right? I'd kill for 15 hours of UA. UA is supposed to be pleasant, like a date, right? I'd love to have a date with my wife. You do understand that, right?
No demands
No disrespectful judgments
No angry outbursts
No independent behavior
No dishonesty
No annoying habits
15 hours a week giving her your undivided attention
- meeting her need for conversation
-- including all four friends of good conversation
-- including none of the enemies of good conversation
- meeting her need for affection
meet three more emotional needs for her, well
negotiating everything that goes into your schedule, including only things that she is enthusiastic about, so as to build a compatible and enjoyable lifestyle
providing full transparency into your life
I am being transparent.
I'd love to meet any needs of hers she'll allow me to.
I'm not aware of any demands I'm making, or disrespectful judgements.
I'm managing my frustration very well without any Angry Outbursts.
We exhanged many e-mails today while we were both at work.
I don't know what else to do to address her conversation EN.
I am focused on eliminating LB's as per instruction from her and Dr H, before I attempt to meet EN's.
Please realize my efforts as part of your understanding.
She says 'she's done' and won't respond to my question of her position on the Thanksgiving trip to see my family, which I didn't demand and made every effort to make as pleasant for her as possible.
My arms are down (which means I'm not fighting or being defensive, just being honest and answering everything.)
Help!
Remark
Last edited by Remark; 12/03/14 09:33 PM.
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BTW, I've asked my wife what issue(s) there was with going to my family's place for part of Thanksgiving as I thought we had POJA on going. She referred me to this forum.
I'm honoring your suggestion and staying off of a couple of her threads, (my arms still down). But, I don't know what she is referring to.
I know my family offended her years ago and so it's a strain for her to go there. So, I make every effort to minimize that discomfort when we do go. And for sure, I don't demand that she go.
I don't know of anything new.
If someone on the forum does, please help me to know.
Last edited by Remark; 12/03/14 10:02 PM.
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OK, I found a reference to my family. She says "It's like an emotional affair with his family". I don't get why she'd say that at this point.
Years ago I was too intimate with them and shared some of wife's and my conversations with them. That stopped years ago. I've cut way back on visits to see them and telephone calls to them. I go to work early in the AM as does my brother the dentist. We exchange QOTD (quote of the day) e-mails 3-4 times/week, but the emails just have the uplifting or religious quote in them.
Regardless, her feelings are her feelings. I don't what/how to make things any better for her.
As I said, if I need to cut all ties with family, I will. I am struggling to see things from her perspective and I don't really know her perspective except for a comment that "it feels like he's having an emotional affair with his family".
I don't know why she would say that.
I'm sharing more with you all forum folks than with anyone else on the planet. Though I wasn't on my PC over Thanksgiving, I've been glued to this forum every waking hour at home since save for a leaking toilet tonight.
I'm not arguing her position, but am trying to understand it and why she'd feel that way.
remark
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I know my family offended her years ago and so it's a strain for her to go there. So, I make every effort to minimize that discomfort when we do go. And for sure, I don't demand that she go. So is your wife ENTHUSIASTIC about going to see your family? Or is she RELUCTANT? Notice that I'm not asking about the reason for her feelings. I am asking about what those feelings are.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I don't get why she'd say that at this point. It doesn't matter why. The policies still apply. It's important to learn to quit questioning why your wife feels the way she does. It makes it sound like you believe she might be wrong to feel the way she does, which is a sure love busters.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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As I said, if I need to cut all ties with family, I will. I am struggling to see things from her perspective and I don't really know her perspective except for a comment that "it feels like he's having an emotional affair with his family".
I don't know why she would say that. You have a habit of jumping straight from "my wife feels this way" to "why?", skipping entirely over "is she enthusiastic or reluctant?" If you want to transform your marriage into a marriage that makes your wife happy, you need to replace the habit of asking why with the habit of finding out if she is enthusiastic or reluctant. It was interesting to me that I advised you to go find out if your wife was enthusiastic about visiting your family or not, and your comments included things like "I don't know what her current reluctance is centered on. I'm trying to find out from her." It's like you completely passed over the question I meant: is she enthusiastic or reluctant? I don't know what any current issue(s) is/are with my family. She wasn't enthusiastic about spending Thanksgiving with them, if I understand correctly. Go find out for sure. Notice that I didn't say go find out why?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Remark, you gotta get focused here.
Do you have the book Five Steps to Romantic Love?
I suggest you start working through it, a chapter a week. Each section of the book corresponds to a chapter in either Love Busters, or His Needs, Her Needs.
Early on you will tackle Selfish Demands. See if you can get your wife to agree to give you a weekly worksheet listing selfish demands you have made during that week. If she does, POST THEM HERE. If not, post to us regularly and we will try to help you see your selfish demands.
The next week you will tackle Disrespectful Judgments. We know you make a lot of those. Same procedure; you want to invite your wife to give you a weekly worksheet listing your disrespectful judgments - if she feels like it. If not, we will help you spot them. If she does provide you the list POST THEM HERE. We will start working with you to eliminate these, just like we are working with you to eliminate "I try" from your vocabulary.
Eliminating Disrespectful Judgments will be a major step forward for your marriage, but I expect she will still be furious because you also have major problems like Independent Behavior.
Your Love Busters are the reason your wife has no interest in receiving your undivided attention, so it is a very good thing that Love Busters are at the front of the program. Try to spend 15 scheduled hours each week giving your wife your undivided attention, but don't expect her to actually feel enthusiastic about that time until you've gotten very consistent about eliminating the love busters.
Keep progressing through the workbook and eliminating the habits that are highlighted. Ideally you need to eliminate them all at once, immediately. Probably you will need some help learning to spot these. POST HERE REGULARLY for help with that. Any time your wife is upset, post here about it, and don't leave out any details, and allow us to help you understand your wife's perspective, and what habits you need to eliminate or replace. There are lots and LOTS of helpful Marriage Builders posters who can help you understand what you are doing that is upsetting your wife, and who can help hold you accountable for eliminating the upsetting behaviors.
Don't disappear again. It makes you look like you aren't serious about this.
Your wife should be preparing to separate from you if the disrespect and independent behavior don't stop and you don't turn this marriage around for her. This is a crisis that won't take a holiday. I didn't see an answer to this.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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OK, she feels that way.
Shouldn't she communicate that instead of suggesting that we go to spend part of Thanksgiving with them?
She says "she's done"!
Remark
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