OK, I SEE THAT SUBTLE DIFFERENCE. Enthusiastic vs. reluctant.

I believe Dr. Harley recommended in your radio show that you stop trying to tell your wife what Marriage Builders says she should do. I agree with him on that, and in fact I'd specifically say that if you want your wife to be happy in your marriage, you should take about 6-12 months off from doing so.

By the way, any time you use the word "should," you are almost always making a Disrespectful Judgment. You definitely are here. Keep a written record of your DJs; put this one down on it.


That's right. She's done, and she doesn't care what she should do for the marriage. It is up to you to become so fantastically good at this stuff so fast that it will give her a reason to want to do anything for your marriage. Right now she doesn't care, and it's up to you to change that, using the techniques here.

So, let's table what she should do, and talk exclusively about what you need to do if you want to change this situation so that she is happy in your marriage. Do you want that? If so, you're going to need to filter out 100% of all "should" statements about your wife, and you're going to need to stay focused on the topic of what you need to do, with no tangents about what other people ought to do.

For now, that is all you need to know about her feelings about anything. Make it multiple choice for yourself: a) enthusiastic, b) reluctant. Listen to what she has to say, and then pick the best matching answer out of a or b.

In this case she's definitely not enthusiastic about seeing your family, right? So, if you are going to follow the Marriage Builders plan for saving your marriage, what does the Policy of Joint Agreement say you should do about this?

Remark, you have tremendous potential for improvement here. You are doing things that she perceives as selfish demands and disrespectful judgments literally every day. Almost every post, in fact.

That's not uncommon for many men. It's also not uncommon to not even realize what your wife finds disrespectful, and to be totally unaware that you're making DJs with every other sentence out of your mouth. When I showed up here on this forum I was in the same boat: I believed I was following this program to the letter and I was never engaging in love busters, and I had no idea why my wife was so upset.

That's normal, but we've got to get you educated about disrespect and how to identify it and how to eliminate it.

For now, realize this: the goal is not to avoid demands and disrespectful judgments in some abstract sense - the goal is to avoid anything that she PERCEIVES as demanding or disrespectful. That means if she perceives it as demanding or disrespectful, for whatever reason, even if you think her reasons are wrong, even if you didn't mean it as demanding or disrespectful, you have got to eliminate it.

This is actually spelled out in Love Busters (the book). Dr. Harley explains that the standard to go by is whether or not your spouse feels you are being demanding (or disrespectful, or angry). For the purpose of following the Marriage Builders plan, if she feels you are, you are.

And let me tell you as a neutral observer, you are disrespectful all the time.

We can teach you to stop that.

Yes, I have Five Steps to Romantic Love. I will go back through it.
No, she won't participate.
I don't see where I commit disrespectful judgements.

Today's crisis had to do with ea I had 8 yrs ago. I exchanged emails with my high school sweetheart not having a clue that was an affair. I have not seen this woman since 1974 and live 800 miles away. I mentioned that in this thread. Wife can't understand and asked 5-6 times why I would mention the 800 miles. I explained to contextualize it. Dr H talks about leaving town, and changing jobs. None of that applies, but I patiently kept engaged and endeavored to answer yet another way as she kept asking for "relevance".
Ultimately, I agreed the "800 miles away " reference minimized the sin somewhat.
Her feelings are her feelings. I thought this was all put to bed years ago when it was discovered and i ended it, 8 yrs ago. All of this was discussed at length 8 yrs ago.
No angry outburst from me. And I don't perceive I DR either.
Remark

Teach me!
I gotta know. 'Every other sentence.,.,'
I feel like all I'm doing is answering her question. What, specefically am I doing wrong.
You've seen several today. Every other sentence. Which ones.
Thx

Don't just read it. Start following the procedures in it. Seriously, take one lesson a week. I'll be happy to work through it with you.


We know.


I just pointed one out to you a minute ago when you were talking about what your wife should do. Did you realize that was disrespectful?

Yes, I want that. I can see where "should" gets into DJ territory.

Start that written record. Make yourself a weekly worksheet.

No, I didn't realize that. Perhaps I would have been better to ask for clarification of enthusiasm or reluctance given she suggested we visit them.

I'd take markos up on that offer if I were you.

When you think about her feelings about this over the past few years, were they reluctant, or enthusiastic?

If she was reluctant about it, and nothing has changed that would change her feelings about it, she's probably still reluctant. I think she would be annoyed to have you ask for clarification in this case - I think she made her feelings clear in the past, and you went ahead and did what she was reluctant about, she was hurt, and decided that it didn't do any good to share her feelings with you.

When your wife lets you know that she is reluctant/not enthusiastic about something (not necessarily in those words), don't just wait for her feelings to randomly change. Find an alternative or a different set of circumstances that you think she might be enthusiastic about. If you can't think of an alternative right away, just wait until you can.

Here's a post Dr. Harley made to me a few years ago:

I I will.

I am going to take Markos up on it, but am tied up until late tonight, 'round 10 PM, starting in 30 minutes. Have boy scouts with son until then.
And, Thank you

Remark

Glad to hear it

BTW, have you snooped for an affair?

No. Honesty is her biggest virtue and EN. As neglected as she is, she's above that.

I'm re-reading Five Steps Chapts on overcoming LBs in anticipation of Markos.

Remark

So was I.

But I had an EA anyway.

She's very vulnerable to an affair, and the way she claims to be done and the flippant divorce threats are red flags.

Start snooping. I wish markos had. It would have saved us a lot of grief.

As much as you've listened to the radio show, it sounds like at least one major point has failed to sink in, then.


Remark, here's my suggestion.

Over this week and next, let's read the Selfish Demands chapter of Love Busters and the beginning of the workbook through to page 47. Fill out the memorandum of agreement on page 16 and give it to your wife. Don't expect her to sign it or to be happy - from her point of you have made this commitment before and failed to follow up on it, and the only difference to her now is that years have gone by and she's more hurt and upset. But give it to her anyway.

Fill out the love busters questionnaire as best as you can, about you, from your wife's perspective.

Fill out the Selfish Demands inventory and the strategy to replace Selfish Demands with Thoughtful Requests. Keep a selfish demands worksheet over the next week: any time your wife or we say that you are being demanding to her, write that down on the worksheet. If your wife gets upset at you at any point during the next week, post here, and let's see if we can find a selfish demand from you involved.

For the information your write down on these worksheets, post it here as well. We will have feedback.

I'll be doing the same thing out here. Write here about your progress each day and anything you read that sheds any light on how your wife feels about your marriage.

Meantime don't forget to listen to the Marriage Builders radio show daily.

Start snooping.

By the way, here is a list of ways I've compiled over the past few years that I or other people I've heard about have been disrespectful to their spouse.

sarcasm
criticism
judgment: stating that their perspective is wrong
"should"
lecturing/attempting to educate
gestures, facial expressions, body language
expressing surprise or shock at an opinion or feeling or belief
saying that something is "obvious" (in other words, you "should" realize this or "should" know it)
disrespecting your spouse's feelings instead of accepting the fact that they do feel that way

guilting, shaming
hyperbolizing
always/never
exaggerated words
scolding
name-calling, labelling
saying or doing something you know your spouse identifies as disrespectful

comparisons: if I had done such a horrible thing as you, I'd be doing more to make up for it

defensiveness

minimizing -- "just" -- you just say that because ... [Translation: I don't have to address your complaint.]
psychoanalyzing your spouse
explaining away your spouse's feelings or complaints

attributing motivations
blaming, fault-finding
expecting them to read your mind


I statements may help, but are not an excuse for a disrespectful judgment:
I feel like (DJ)
I feel unloved.
I feel like you don't love me.