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About 10 days ago, she mentioned to me that the flapper in one of the toilets needed replacing, because the toilet leaked enough for the toilet to refill itself every so often. So, I went and replaced the flapper in that toilet.
It was still acting up a few days later, (last Wednesday) so, without additional conversation, I stopped on my way home from work and got a new Fluidmaster float mechanism ($10) fix that as it was catching or something and not working. In that process, the flexible hose from the all to the toilet got crimped and has a slow drip that still isn't fixed.
OK, to the issue. We had a significant discussion on this topic today as from her perspective, I violated POJA by doing anything more than just the flapper. If that is how she felt then that is how she felt. It does not need to make sense, it is just the way it is. You will find that the POJA gets easier and easier the more you do it. Reason is that you will both come to understand when an agreement needs to be revisited. In this case it needed to be revisited. Apologise for your mistake and say that next time you will know.
3 adult children
Divorced - he was a serial adulterer
Now remarried, thank you MB
(formerly lied_to_again)
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About 10 days ago, she mentioned to me that the flapper in one of the toilets needed replacing, because the toilet leaked enough for the toilet to refill itself every so often. So, I went and replaced the flapper in that toilet.
It was still acting up a few days later, (last Wednesday) so, without additional conversation, I stopped on my way home from work and got a new Fluidmaster float mechanism ($10) fix that as it was catching or something and not working. In that process, the flexible hose from the all to the toilet got crimped and has a slow drip that still isn't fixed.
OK, to the issue. We had a significant discussion on this topic today as from her perspective, I violated POJA by doing anything more than just the flapper. If that is how she felt then that is how she felt. It does not need to make sense, it is just the way it is. You will find that the POJA gets easier and easier the more you do it. Reason is that you will both come to understand when an agreement needs to be revisited. In this case it needed to be revisited. Apologise for your mistake and say that next time you will know. OK, Thanks. If that's how she feels, That's how she feels. I will apologize. Thanks again, remark
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Time to man up and be completely honest.
Your Wife does not accept your minimizations of the Deleted Texts and that still stabs her to this day, while minimizing those actions have been partially why she doesn't givea dang anymore.
A person who has nothing to hide, hides nothing.
Why did you previously delete those texts?
What are you currently doing in todays timeframe that triggers her to remember that so distinctly?
What else can you change? How about Radical Honesty to your Wife about those types of triggers?
LTL Based on a discussion today, I have some insight into some 'triggers' which cause her to feel disrespected. About 10 days ago, she mentioned to me that the flapper in one of the toilets needed replacing, because the toilet leaked enough for the toilet to refill itself every so often. So, I went and replaced the flapper in that toilet. It was still acting up a few days later, (last Wednesday) so, without additional conversation, I stopped on my way home from work and got a new Fluidmaster float mechanism ($10) fix that as it was catching or something and not working. In that process, the flexible hose from the all to the toilet got crimped and has a slow drip that still isn't fixed. OK, to the issue. We had a significant discussion on this topic today as from her perspective, I violated POJA by doing anything more than just the flapper. From my perspective, I thought I had been asked to replace the flapper, which I took as tantamount as 'fix the toilet'. So, as long as I had to spend nominal money to do it, (not replacing the whole toilet or involving a plumber, etc.) I had the authority to do so. In our conversation, since I bought additional parts on a subsequent trip to the hardware store, I violated POJA in doing so. She related it to this example. "Say we discussed it and we agreed that I was going to the golf sporting goods store to buy some new golf balls. On that trip, not only did I buy golf balls, but new golf clubs and a golf getaway trip because they were having a sale." (Readers, this was her example; It didn't happen. It was simply what she was characterizing my purchase of a couple more parts totaling $27 so I could fix the toilet.) So, that triggers her into the position of me being disrespectful. OK, I understand that. In describing POJA, Dr H uses the exercise of shopping at a grocery store together. In another example, he uses the example of asking if he can take the trash out. I recall the example, but I don't recall the meaning or context. Of course, a spouse doesn't need to ask for permission to go to the bathroom. Should one also consult spouse on taking the trash out or on additional parts for a toilet repair, when he thought he had been asked to repair it with the request to "replace the flapper"? I love all of the Harley concepts. Where, though, does POJA start/stop on something like this? I one of us buys anything, even like needed new underwear, without checking with the other, is that a POJA violation? Please, I need some feedback on this one. Thanks, remark These situations where she complains and you debate her are killing your marriage. If she lets you know that you have upset her, that is valuable information. Thank her for it. Don't try to persuade her that you didn't do anything wrong. How far does POJA go? If that's the reason your wife feels you've controlled her, The Policy of Joint Agreement will solve your problem. You must promise her that from this day forward you will not even brush your teeth unless it meets with her enthusiastic agreement. Express your willingness to completely change your lifestyle together so that she can enjoy it with you. Make her an equal partner in your marriage so that she can live a life full of hope for the future. The point of the POJA is to learn how to not bother your wife. If your wife wants to be consulted when you buy toilet parts, make a sandwich, brush your teeth, or go to the bathroom, then tell her you will check with her first before doing any of these. It's that simple.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I love all of the Harley concepts. Where, though, does POJA start/stop on something like this?
I one of us buys anything, even like needed new underwear, without checking with the other, is that a POJA violation? If it never bothers your wife when you buy new underwear and you know she's already enthusiastic, then you don't need to talk to her before buying it first. However, if it sometimes bothers your wife when you buy new underwear, then you should check with her each time to find out if she is enthusiastic.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Can your wife access your work email and computer?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Not really. I can show her my company e-mails on my cell phone, which I'll be happy to do.
I will offer that up to her.
Thanks
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Time to man up and be completely honest.
Your Wife does not accept your minimizations of the Deleted Texts and that still stabs her to this day, while minimizing those actions have been partially why she doesn't givea dang anymore.
A person who has nothing to hide, hides nothing.
Why did you previously delete those texts?
What are you currently doing in todays timeframe that triggers her to remember that so distinctly?
What else can you change? How about Radical Honesty to your Wife about those types of triggers?
LTL Based on a discussion today, I have some insight into some 'triggers' which cause her to feel disrespected. About 10 days ago, she mentioned to me that the flapper in one of the toilets needed replacing, because the toilet leaked enough for the toilet to refill itself every so often. So, I went and replaced the flapper in that toilet. It was still acting up a few days later, (last Wednesday) so, without additional conversation, I stopped on my way home from work and got a new Fluidmaster float mechanism ($10) fix that as it was catching or something and not working. In that process, the flexible hose from the all to the toilet got crimped and has a slow drip that still isn't fixed. OK, to the issue. We had a significant discussion on this topic today as from her perspective, I violated POJA by doing anything more than just the flapper. From my perspective, I thought I had been asked to replace the flapper, which I took as tantamount as 'fix the toilet'. So, as long as I had to spend nominal money to do it, (not replacing the whole toilet or involving a plumber, etc.) I had the authority to do so. In our conversation, since I bought additional parts on a subsequent trip to the hardware store, I violated POJA in doing so. She related it to this example. "Say we discussed it and we agreed that I was going to the golf sporting goods store to buy some new golf balls. On that trip, not only did I buy golf balls, but new golf clubs and a golf getaway trip because they were having a sale." (Readers, this was her example; It didn't happen. It was simply what she was characterizing my purchase of a couple more parts totaling $27 so I could fix the toilet.) So, that triggers her into the position of me being disrespectful. OK, I understand that. In describing POJA, Dr H uses the exercise of shopping at a grocery store together. In another example, he uses the example of asking if he can take the trash out. I recall the example, but I don't recall the meaning or context. Of course, a spouse doesn't need to ask for permission to go to the bathroom. Should one also consult spouse on taking the trash out or on additional parts for a toilet repair, when he thought he had been asked to repair it with the request to "replace the flapper"? I love all of the Harley concepts. Where, though, does POJA start/stop on something like this? I one of us buys anything, even like needed new underwear, without checking with the other, is that a POJA violation? Please, I need some feedback on this one. Thanks, remark These situations where she complains and you debate her are killing your marriage. If she lets you know that you have upset her, that is valuable information. Thank her for it. Don't try to persuade her that you didn't do anything wrong. How far does POJA go? If that's the reason your wife feels you've controlled her, The Policy of Joint Agreement will solve your problem. You must promise her that from this day forward you will not even brush your teeth unless it meets with her enthusiastic agreement. Express your willingness to completely change your lifestyle together so that she can enjoy it with you. Make her an equal partner in your marriage so that she can live a life full of hope for the future. The point of the POJA is to learn how to not bother your wife. If your wife wants to be consulted when you buy toilet parts, make a sandwich, brush your teeth, or go to the bathroom, then tell her you will check with her first before doing any of these. It's that simple.
Sure, I can and did apologize. But, my words, especially apologies, ring hollow. My BEHAVIOR needs to change and evidence a new, better, me.
Yes, I agree that I need to stop debating, though it seems to me like me just sharing a perspective like she does. It IS killing us.
Am I on track?
remark
P.S. went with color red as I don't know how to use reply, quick reply, quote, quick quote, etc, effectively yet. Apologies
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Time to man up and be completely honest.
Your Wife does not accept your minimizations of the Deleted Texts and that still stabs her to this day, while minimizing those actions have been partially why she doesn't givea dang anymore.
A person who has nothing to hide, hides nothing.
Why did you previously delete those texts?
What are you currently doing in todays timeframe that triggers her to remember that so distinctly?
What else can you change? How about Radical Honesty to your Wife about those types of triggers?
LTL Based on a discussion today, I have some insight into some 'triggers' which cause her to feel disrespected. About 10 days ago, she mentioned to me that the flapper in one of the toilets needed replacing, because the toilet leaked enough for the toilet to refill itself every so often. So, I went and replaced the flapper in that toilet. It was still acting up a few days later, (last Wednesday) so, without additional conversation, I stopped on my way home from work and got a new Fluidmaster float mechanism ($10) fix that as it was catching or something and not working. In that process, the flexible hose from the all to the toilet got crimped and has a slow drip that still isn't fixed. OK, to the issue. We had a significant discussion on this topic today as from her perspective, I violated POJA by doing anything more than just the flapper. From my perspective, I thought I had been asked to replace the flapper, which I took as tantamount as 'fix the toilet'. So, as long as I had to spend nominal money to do it, (not replacing the whole toilet or involving a plumber, etc.) I had the authority to do so. In our conversation, since I bought additional parts on a subsequent trip to the hardware store, I violated POJA in doing so. She related it to this example. "Say we discussed it and we agreed that I was going to the golf sporting goods store to buy some new golf balls. On that trip, not only did I buy golf balls, but new golf clubs and a golf getaway trip because they were having a sale." (Readers, this was her example; It didn't happen. It was simply what she was characterizing my purchase of a couple more parts totaling $27 so I could fix the toilet.) So, that triggers her into the position of me being disrespectful. OK, I understand that. In describing POJA, Dr H uses the exercise of shopping at a grocery store together. In another example, he uses the example of asking if he can take the trash out. I recall the example, but I don't recall the meaning or context. Of course, a spouse doesn't need to ask for permission to go to the bathroom. Should one also consult spouse on taking the trash out or on additional parts for a toilet repair, when he thought he had been asked to repair it with the request to "replace the flapper"? I love all of the Harley concepts. Where, though, does POJA start/stop on something like this? I one of us buys anything, even like needed new underwear, without checking with the other, is that a POJA violation? Please, I need some feedback on this one. Thanks, remark These situations where she complains and you debate her are killing your marriage. If she lets you know that you have upset her, that is valuable information. Thank her for it. Don't try to persuade her that you didn't do anything wrong. How far does POJA go? If that's the reason your wife feels you've controlled her, The Policy of Joint Agreement will solve your problem. You must promise her that from this day forward you will not even brush your teeth unless it meets with her enthusiastic agreement. Express your willingness to completely change your lifestyle together so that she can enjoy it with you. Make her an equal partner in your marriage so that she can live a life full of hope for the future. The point of the POJA is to learn how to not bother your wife. If your wife wants to be consulted when you buy toilet parts, make a sandwich, brush your teeth, or go to the bathroom, then tell her you will check with her first before doing any of these. It's that simple. I read the above POJA link again. I know, without a doubt she would say that is for reason no. 3. She feels I am making decisions that don't take her feelings into account. I our current state/situation, I don't believe anything but my actions of honoring her wishes and therefore her perspective, will prove to her I am a changed husband. Since we have talked for years about how I perceive she controls me. So, for me to just give up on that concept might be a tough reality to embrace WITHOUT MY GENUINE ACTIONS TO BACK UP THAT CONCEPT. Will simply have to prove it! Period. (I know that talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.) Remark
Last edited by Remark; 12/07/14 04:01 PM.
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Can your wife access your work email and computer? Then your marriage is not going to survive. Can you fix this? Can you leave that job? Do you have remote access to your work computer? I can show her my company e-mails on my cell phone, which I'll be happy to do.
I will offer that up to her. No, she needs to be able to access it without your knowledge.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I read the above POJA link again. I know, without a doubt she would say that is for reason no. 3. She feels I am making decisions
that don't take her feelings into account.
I our current state/situation, I don't believe anything but my actions of honoring her wishes and therefore her perspective, will prove to her I am a changed husband. It's not really about your current situation - in EVERY marriage, every decision must be made in such a way that it takes the feelings of both into account. This is how it works in good marriages that are not in crisis, and this is how they stay out of crisis. Will simply have to prove it! Period. (I know that talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.) I'm a little worried that you sound like you think you have to prove it and then this can all be over - the POJA needs to be for life, if you want to avoid making your wife feel controlled.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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OK, I understand that. I think, thought that she didn't feel controlled. She felt disrespected. I am the one that felt micro-managed and controlled, based on a misunderstanding. (The misunderstanding being I thought we had POJA to 'fix the toilet' when we only , apparently, had POJA to 'replace the flapper'. If your wife doesn't want you doing something that doesn't mean you are "controlled." That simply means that it would bother her for you to do it. She can't change that, so if you want a happy marriage, don't do it! "Controlled" would be if either of you is making the other do something. Waiting patiently until you find a win-win solution is not being controlled - it is having a good marriage. Don't be judgmental about what bothers your wife. Ask MelodyLane about lettuce.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Markos,
Next weekend, my oldest daughter is receiving her PhD in Des Moines, (where we were for Thanksgiving and I have several family members.) We are invited up there for her graduation ceremony and some dinner festivities that evening. My wife's finals week is the week after. So, she has suggested that my son and I attend the festivities while she stays here and studies.
Given that you've had some interaction with her on her thread re: POJA, reluctance vs. enthusiasm, and independent behavior, what do you think we should do?
I can enthusiastically support going up there for the festivities and call it POJA. It sounds to me like she is enthusiast about it as well. It's not independent behavior if both parties support it, right?
I'm asking because I have a bad track record of decisions like this one.
Thanks,
Remark
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Markos,
Yes, I realize it is a life-style change, a permanent one.
My meaning is that my words sound like a sales pitch to my wife. So, simply saying or promising something is not going to prove, to her, anything at all. Sustained better behavior as a husband will win her over, but not words.
Doesn't that make sense?
Remark
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Markos,
I have a work laptop PC which I bring home every night. It would violate my company's policy if I were to give the logon password and such to anyone.
Even though it violates my company's policy, I will show her the log on sequence and my password and offer that up. (Just don't tell my company!)
I am an open book with nothing to hide.
Alternatively, my phone gets all my company and personal email. She is welcome to my phone anytime she wants, including when I am asleep or when the phone is in the charger. She knows the password to my phone (which is her birthday.) (Since my phone gets company e-mail, it has to be password-protected.)
Can you live with either/both of those options?
Thanks,
Remark
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Melodylane,
(This isn't so much in response to anything. It's just the best way I knew to get in touch with you.)
1. I'm supposed to ask you about "lettuce", with regard to being controlling. Page 30, dialogue between Markos and me, remark.
2. Also, please read my post related to what I can and can't do re: my company laptop PC which I bring home every night as I an on call. You and Markos are both inquiring about how my wife can look at all my emails.
The short version is, I'm not supposed to give anyone the password to it. But, I will to my wife for the sake of our marriage. And, I'll have to teach her how to log on to our network with my corporate PC as there are several steps. She already has access to my phone which is password protected because I receive all of my company and personal emails on it as well. The password is her birthday. I welcome snooping and as far as I'm concerned, I have lived by extreme precautions for several years now.
Thanks,
Remark
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Extreme precautions, radical honesty
OK, To my wife, I have given
(1) given instructions on how to logon to my work PC to check my email whenever she is compelled.
(2) given her all my known passwords to Amazon, password accounts, ebay and all other websites, etc.
(3) the PIN to my phone and iPad
(4) I just got a 1% raise and a nominal bonus last Friday, and today's MB radio reminded me of that. It had simply fallen off my radar screen and I had forgotten about it.
(5) She is aware of all my bank accounts, and has access to the
(6) She already has my personal (home) PC password which, like my son's PC, has Convenant Eyes on it.
Can anyone think of anything else I might do to be more accountable with regard to radically honest?
Thanks,
remark
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Markos,
I have a work laptop PC which I bring home every night. It would violate my company's policy if I were to give the logon password and such to anyone.
Even though it violates my company's policy, I will show her the log on sequence and my password and offer that up. (Just don't tell my company!) I sure would! Can you live with either/both of those options? Who, me? It doesn't bug me in the slightest what you do or don't do.  But your wife can't live without openness and transparency! Is she welcome to check up on you any time she wants using any means necessary? If you suddenly discovered her remotely viewing your screen at work while you are working (I discovered my wife doing this today! ) would she have to face any consequences from you?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Extreme precautions, radical honesty
OK, To my wife, I have given
(1) given instructions on how to logon to my work PC to check my email whenever she is compelled. Great! Small note: I am really vigilant about identifying disrespect and possible disrespect. Your wife might feel like the word "compelled" is disrespectful. Some people might see it as psychoanalyzing, i.e., saying she is obsessive compulsive. Hopefully not, but I thought I'd mention it! It wouldn't hurt to say "whenever she desires," and add "for any reason."
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Glad you were listening to the show today; there are a lot of great comments about openness and honesty (I'm just now listening).
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Melodylane,
(This isn't so much in response to anything. It's just the best way I knew to get in touch with you.)
1. I'm supposed to ask you about "lettuce", with regard to being controlling. Page 30, dialogue between Markos and me, remark. I will post my lettuce fight incident in the next post. 2. Also, please read my post related to what I can and can't do re: my company laptop PC which I bring home every night as I an on call. You and Markos are both inquiring about how my wife can look at all my emails.
The short version is, I'm not supposed to give anyone the password to it. But, I will to my wife for the sake of our marriage.
And, I'll have to teach her how to log on to our network with my corporate PC as there are several steps. As you should. She should have access to everything because your wife comes before your career. I work for a Fortune 500 company and my H has access to my laptop and I have access to his. I even have a way to see every call that comes into his desk phone! She already has access to my phone which is password protected because I receive all of my company and personal emails on it as well. The password is her birthday. I welcome snooping and as far as I'm concerned, I have lived by extreme precautions for several years now.
Thanks,
Remark good deal!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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