My son said that when they were discussing how long it would be until my kids were over there again, the OW said that a couple of weeks from now is her 16 year old's birthday party, and something about how he doesn't act nice when his friends are there, and that is one reason my H isn't going to have my kids that weekend. While it may true that her son acts like a jerk when his friends are around, I suspect another reason is that he doesn't want my kids interfering with his party. My son was complaining because he has been giving him a hard time - I suggested he speak to his father about it. What I don't understand is why a teenager would sit quietly by while his parent brought in a "replacement" who was still married to someone else - I have a daughter only a month older than her son, and if I did that I would never hear the end of it from her or from any of the other kids.

Nellie, he isn't sitting quietly he is taking it out on your kids. He can't do anything about what his mother is doing but he can sure make life hard on your kids. And he doesn't act to good when his friends are around this is another way he is showing his disapproval. And I am sure she hears plenty, he is not going to do it in front of your kids, he willjust take it out on them<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Why wouldn't he be able to do anything about what his mother was doing? Maybe he wouldn't be able to stop her, but he could certainly make her life miserable - I know from experience that teenagers are no fun to live with if they are angry at you. Why would he need to take it out on my kids - why couldn't he take it out on the adults whose fault it is? I don't get it - are my kids unusual in that they would not hesitate to voice their opinion to their parents?

Because that is the way some kids are. Nellie you respect your kids opinions. You listen to them. That is the kind of mother you are. She is not that kind. I am sure she doesn't listen to her children at all. A lot of parents today have kids because they didn't figure out how not to. Let me say that again there are a lot of people who have children. Given birth does not make you a parent or a mother except by name.<P>You are putting your values on this woman and her children. But you are a special person and mother. There are a lot of people out there who are not loving and caring as you are. The woman is extremely selfish, that is obvious because of what she is doing. She is not going to listen or care what her children do, think or say. If she did I don't think she would be doing this. And kids will take things out on others when they have no control on what is happening to them. He may cause all sort of problems that you don't know about. If he can't talk to his mother then is the way he deals with getting attention. <P>Again Nellie you are one special person and if I had classroom of parents like you I would still be teaching. But most of my parents are like the OW. They don't care about anybody but themselves. <P>------------------<BR>di<P>

I have only one word to say.<P>GOOD!!!!<P>When there's tension in the household, everyone gets to feel it. Let it continue. I hope she continues to control your kids visits to benefit her own kids. Eventually, your husband will have to see what's going on. All of this is murder on romance.<P>I wouldn't assume the kid isn't saying things to his mother either. And to your husband too, for that matter.

SDS,<BR>Thank you. I guess I just assume that almost all mothers love their children, even if I don't necessarily agree with their childraising methods or they with mine. Certainly all of my friends and acquaintances love their children - then again I met most of them through 4-H, La Leche League, PTA, and homeschooling - so that is probably not a representative sample.<P>Distressed,<BR>I hope so. Her older kids tend to make themselves scarce when my kids are there, but then again I don't know how much time they usually spend at home. My son said that he has never heard mention of the older two kids spending any time with their own father, though the youngest one apparently sees him regularly.

Nellie-I have to say that SDS has the right idea-You listen and your childrens opinions and attitudes do affect how you treat them. She probably wouldn't be bothered twice about what her son has to say. Just keep on being the good woman that you are and things will work out. I am a strong believer in God does the best things in HIS own time! God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P>

Nellie,<BR> Well, considering how the OW seems to be so much in control of your H's actions--to the point that when she says, "Jump!", I'll betcha he asks, "How high?"--I wouldn't be surprised if she isn't just as controlling of her kids in some ways. While she may let her kids get away with some stuff, they may not dare to show their anger directly toward her...does that make sense? I've known some people who let their kids practically get away with murder, but will not tolerate any backtalk toward themselves (the parents).<BR> You know, Nellie, you really oughta go out and rent "The Parent Trap" for your kids....it might give them some neat ideas!

chick's amd Sweetpea,<P>Maybe she doesn't care about what her children think.<P>I just found out that my 7 year old spent all Sunday lying on her couch and sleeping. I hadn't known she was that sick, since by the time she got home she just seemed to have a bad cold. I asked my H if she had had a fever, and he said they hadn't taken her temperature! They (and my daughter) were lucky she didn't throw up, like she often does when she has a fever. How could it not occur to them to take the temperature of a child who was obviously so sick?

people who can tolerate so little reality in their lives ...those are the people who dont care what their kids think, or wehther they have fevers.<BR>nellie, no matter what happens with you, you know that this relationship is doomed. paranoid schizophrenics can't keep up this level of insanity, much less depressed adulterers....<BR>thank god your kids have you!

Bravo Nellie....<P>It is harder and harder to find <B>good</B> and I mean <B>really good</B> parents(moms and dads) like you.<P>With my wife leaving me and our three kids... wanting to see them only every other weekend... and no more!... it shows that the valued maternal love... when lost is a disaster... when kept (like in your case) is a blessing beyond all earthly wealth.<P>I forgot who made the suggestion to me (I think it was RMA)... but they wanted me to tell you of my situation...<P>I had to counter-file for divorce... because my wife was threatening to take my kids of out state and have the OM be "the new man in their lives"... and "to protect them from their daddy!" I was, therefore, starting a horrendous custody battle... for which I was told I had a 5%-20% chance at absolute best... I didn't want to file for divorce... I still want the divorce completely stopped... BUT... there were some benefits I got from it. Not that I am recommending divorce to you... it s^&k beyond belief... and it hurts and it's terrible on the kids. But...<P>Once I filed and got a docket number... I was able to get restraining orders on the amount of contact OM had with my kids... 3 in fact...<BR>1. OM cannot spend <B>any</B> overnights with my kids (7yo girl, 10 yo boy, 17 yo boy)... interesting since he has moved in with my wife... and now has to go home to his "mommy" when I kids sleep at their moms.<BR>2. OM cannot enter my house at all (he came in once while I was on a business trip... and played daddy... dinner... games... movie rental... the works... I was to say the least <B>very upset</B> at this!)<BR>3. W and OM planned a vacation with my kids (and his too)... it was canned by the judge... <B>and I didn't even ask for #3</B><P>I couldn't have gotten the restaining orders without the counter-filing... so said my attorney. Only in the event of physical abuse can you get a restraining order (in my state anyway.)<P>My situation had some special circumstances that made it work...<BR>A. OM's kids (oldest - 18yo was arrested for burglary and arson... and is on drug rehab)<BR>B. Wife was stuffing OM down my kid's throat as their new daddy (courts supposedly hate making kid's go through dramatic lifestyle changes!)<BR>C. Fortunate assignment of judges (a good woman) showed some moral conscience and character {I was told that I lucked out on the judge}<BR>D. I had a good attorney with <B>good</B> writting skills... and worked with judge and "family law committees" before<BR>E. Wife has a bozo for an attorney... writes like a child... did poor advising for my wife.<P>I don't know if you want to consider this... divorce is unquestionably a love buster... no matter how much you try and push the love busting blame off onto attorneys, judges, or the court system... your spouse will eventually blame <B>you</B>!<P>This is just a thought... something to ponder... when things get too hairy.<P>My prayers are for you and your kids... <BR>God bless the parents who "serve" the true best interest of their kids!<P>Jim

love WAS blind,<P>Up until this, I assumed that the OW, would at least be capable of basic child care. And of course my H should have too, especially since he knows our seven year old tends to get fairly high fevers whenever she gets sick. Even a teenage babysitter would realize that a child who acted like that probably had a fever.<P>NSR,<P>I was told by the attorney I consulted that I had little chance of preventing overnight visitation, because morality is not taken into consideration in this state. I could, I guess, consult another attorney. It would not be a matter of the OW leaving for the weekend, because my H moved into the house she owns. I don't know if it would be worth all the money it would cost to counter-file in my case, if there is little hope that it would do any good. <P>Before my H moved in with the OW full-time, he was renting a room elsewhere and he took one of our kids for the night. He took her to the OW's house, and he, of course, shared a room with the OW. I didn't know in advance that he was going to be stupid enough to do that. He claimed he had to, because his rooming house didn't allow guests, but of course he never mentioned that to me. My H took some of the kids to see his father - and neglected to mention of course that the OW was coming too. I would not have known to get a restraining order, because I didn't know these things were going to happen ahead of time. A month or two before the visit to his father, the therapist we were seeing had told him (when he asked) that it was much to soon for overnights, and he had seemed to accept that.

Nellie,<P>Don't give up yet...<BR>Look for some more attorney (free) legal advice... use the web site I suggested!<BR>If there is something... almost anything wrong with the "family situation" at OW house you still may have a chance...<BR>If money is an issue... you can file it yourself with the help of free legal services.<P>I too was told that "morality" is not looked at by the courts... but his sleeping with OW is something most smart lawyers would recommend to you H <B>not</B> to do!... My wife tried to do it anyway... and now I got the restraining orders... and I'm taking them for as long a ride as I can!<P>Jim

NSR,<P>But it is kind of shutting the barn door after the horse is gone. The kids already know he is sleeping with her, obviously. And they know that I believe that it is wrong, as do their two teenage siblings (who have never met the OW). It would just mean they would see less of their father, since he refuses to stay here overnight, when I am gone, because it is "not appropriate" - interesting phraseology, considering. Before he started taking them there, he decided he couldn't visit them on both Saturday and Sunday, because "he was spending too much on gas" - or because the OW wouldn't let him.