Only being responsible for wrecking a car would be an improvement for me. No, he blamed me for his daughter leaving to go live with her mother because of the punishment *I* issued for her unauthorized party at our house. And this he did early in our marriage when I was meeting his EN's and he was happy with me.

I think I'm more resigned than weary. Weary was a while back. I had read your link previously, read it again when you sent it. It's just not appropriate with the current state of our relationship. Like addressing a paper-cut when there's a gaping chest wound. But thank you for your kind words.

What you've described sounds very much like a victim mentality, that being the urge to blame someone else. From Wikipedia, under "victim mentality": "blaming others for a situation that one has created oneself or significantly contributed to." This might be natural for some people, but not all people, not healthy people. If not a victim mentality, it is at least a lack of impulse control.

I'm not accepting the blame from him. Regardless, it's a love buster for me and has contributed significantly to our situation. For me to choose not to be a victim would be to choose not to continue to expose myself to the behavior, which I'm doing, first by withdrawal, then with separation, likely ending in divorce because the behavior doesn't change.

Have you read Dr Harley's material on blended families? He actually recommends against the step parent giving out discipline.

Did you POJA the discipline with him?

In this case, I DIDN'T participate in the discipline but still got blamed. Other times, we did do POJA, but when it went bad, as blended families do, he still turned and blamed me, even though he was party to the process. Regardless, the kids are long grown and gone so it's somewhat moot. It was just a glaring example of what happens regularly on a smaller scale.

Aww gotcha. Dr. Harley says blended families have such high failure wait because POJA isn't followed.

Have you seen this?
Resentment Type A and Type B

I don't think I've seen that article, but I'll check it out.

Yes of course it is.



Here I would disagree. You choose not to be a victim. . . by choosing not to be a victim. It really is that simple.

You remove yourself from the situation both mentally and physically. You politely say that it is unacceptable to blame you and then you LEAVE THE ROOM. If you are stuck in a car when it happens, you put on headphones and listen to music.

I read postings from you about 10 year old events . What about just letting this stuff go? It is a cancer that is sucking the joy out of your life.

And I see my having to alter MY behavior to accommodate his still makes me the victim, just voluntarily so. If I had wanted to have on headphones, I would have already. I'm suggesting that there are different ways to address it. Different people, different situations, different approaches. I'm glad you found one that works for you. Mine works for me and I believe mirrors what Dr. Harley describes as the natural progression of an unhealthy dynamic. I think it's alright if we disagree, do you?

Referencing the older events shows that the behavior is a long-term pattern, behavior that happens even when he's getting his needs met from me. The "cancer" you're referring to is an overdrawn love bank today, which I readily acknowledge. Not discussing it is not going to put those withdrawals back in. And I don't have these conversations or even thoughts if I'm not talking with someone about the dysfunction in my relationship. Just curious, since you're now D'd and remarried, how long ago was the car accident accusation? We either learn from the past or we're doomed to repeat it, and I've heard Dr. Harley say the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Why, then, would I want to forget or ignore it, especially when the behavior is the same today?

I don't have 'one that works for me', I refuse to be a victim and have always refused to be one.

absolutely


Goodness, that was probably 10 years ago. I laughed about it then and laugh now just remembering it. He was always pulling that kind of stuff. Of course the cheating was my fault too :-)

Yeah, sounds about right. %)

Dont get into these terms.
Just focus on following Dr Harleys methods and Email him for guidAnce if needed

What a hair-raisingly disrespectful way to speak to your husband...

While you have page after page of commiserating about what a clod he is, it's rather strange that comparing your husband to a child gets swept under the rug... when it is a huge contributor to the state of your marriage.


What this, and earlier complaints in this thread about his honesty, bring to mind, is Dr. Harley's approach to fostering honesty in a relationship, which you can read here.


Note, I am not exonerating your husband of wrong doing, but if we as posters are doing our best to help you, we are not commiserating with you about his failures, or "validating your feelings about his actions."

Instead, if we as posters are doing our best, we are helping you find ways to keep your side of the street clean, and doing the same with him.

For instance, disagreements can be had without argument with a simple, short statement; "I am not enthusiastic about that."

I've read a number of your other posts. You have a brash, castigating way about you, so I'm surprised you would have even noticed something as subtle as that. Regardless, I'll take blunt honesty over sugar-coated fluff any day of the week, but that means I give it exactly the same way. Under the circumstances, I'm actually quite proud of that interaction with him: I spoke in "I feel" statements, avoided an AO, provided him with instructions on what I needed him to do to address it, and kept it short and to the point. Don't expect any better from me right now, it's not going to happen. I'm barely managing that.

Besides, regardless of all of the above, my H doesn't do "subtle."

I've read that before. I either don't understand the instruction Dr. Harley is giving or I can't imagine why anyone would want to do that. I even looked up the word recrimination to see if I could decipher what I was missing. As I understand it, the only thing that approach would do for me is drain my love bank faster.

Was there a particular point you were trying to make?

Don't commiserate or validate, I certainly don't need that! And I'm not looking for advice on how to clean my side of the street. I'm perfectly capable of following Dr. Harley's principles and did so for years (feel free to validate this statement with my H.) Right now, I am not. My love bank is exhausted and I've been in a holding pattern since April waiting to see if my M can be saved, waiting for my H to follow Dr. Harley's principles and personal advice to him. He hasn't. In September/October, I did six weeks of Plan A to eliminate my H's excuses. He still hasn't done it. My side of the street is irrelevant at this point if my H can't demonstrate that he's capable of doing it too. If my perspective is not valuable to anyone in regards to assisting my H with his thread, then I won't waste everyone's time.

And then what happens? In my case, my H goes and does it anyway. But if you read my thread, you should know that.

I received a response from Dr. Harley. He said, simply, "I encourage any couple who have exhausted their resources in finding a way to solve their marital problems to participate in the Marriage Builders Online Program." I've also noticed some chatter on my H's thread, asking if I would be willing to participate or at least give my H feedback.

I have three concerns.

First, I have absolutely no interest in doing another "program" that teaches the Harley principles. I'm saturated. Remark has copies of several Harley workbooks that I've filled out for him. My involvement in that regard shouldn't be necessary.

Second, I have no doubt that it has been very successful for a large number of couples. But like P90X, you actually have to DO what it instructs you to DO in order for it to be effective. That has always been my H's problem, and I don't see what "power" an accountability coach has to make him do it, any more than others/counselors have had in the past. I'm afraid for him/us, it will just be a waste of money.

Last, regarding my feedback. Here's what I'm imagining for that:

Yesterday, I told him that I don't believe that he loves me, that I feel like I live under his constant disdain. I pointed out that the people on the forum see the same thing, describing his words as laced with "withering contempt" and disrespect in every other sentence. I said that I believe there are behaviors inherent in the feeling of love for someone, such as wanting to do things to make them happy, sometimes (voluntarily) sacrificially, which he has never demonstrated. I referenced his statement that he felt like giving up what he wanted for what I wanted was like "putting his testicles in my purse." I said he seemed to have entered this marriage with no concept of the idea that maybe *I* wanted something out of it too, and that he had made it all about him since day one. He lies to me about minutia, throws me under the bus for other people, never addresses my complaints. Even his current efforts to save this marriage seem much more to do with not wanting to lose his standard of living than it has to do with me. If I were to die and leave him everything so he could just insert another woman into my role of cook/housekeeper/sex partner, he wouldn't skip a beat.

In his daily report to Dr. Harley this morning, he wrote, "Sheri said she believes my heart is wrong, does not love her, and she wants to end the marriage with a divorce. She said �If I loved her, I would not have deceived her re the toilet� and that is her foundation for judging my heart.... It sickens me to think about a toilet being the end of our marriage." "

I feel like once again he made me out to look like an "unreasonable cow" (thank you SugarCane.) Afterall, what sort of rational human being would judge a M or throw a M out because of one incident with a toilet? And yesterday, he posted on his thread that he had eliminated 3 entire categories of LB's, when I had just told him that I didn't perceive that he had eliminated any LB's. Am I supposed to offer feedback on these inaccuracies? Is this the sort of assessment I'm supposed to do? If so, I don't think I have the desire. If not, how can the coach possibly sort through the BS?

I don't want to commit to something that I'm not going to be able to follow through on. I'm hoping to get a better understanding of what to expect before I do.

Telling a spouse what toppings you would like on a pizza is not micro managing IMO. Seems like it would be a frustrating dance to tell someone what you don't want vs clearly telling them what you would like. The former would only create more poor communication problems and frustration.

JDD,

Only you can make the decision if you don't want to do the coaching or stay married vs pursue divorce but I will tell you that my ex was A LOT like Remark and I was beyond tired of holding his hand and spoon feeding him after YEARS of him dropping the ball, making promises, "trying", dropping the ball, rinse and repeat.

You sound like you are trying to convince yourself that you should continue in the marriage even though you know the likely outcome. You don't need anyone's permission for either.

You didn't avoid an AO at all. You may have avoided raising your voice, or cursing... but you resorted to disrespect. Don't play on that level.


Yes. Stop resorting to anger, disrespect, and demands as a way to get your needs met, or as a reaction to his Love Busting.


Well, it would have been nice if you had been here at that time. You would have been advised that following your 6 weeks of Plan A, you follow with separation and Plan B.


With your marriage in a critical state, if he refuses to take your feelings into account, and with your stated history, you should separate and go in to Plan B.

Side issue I know but I would be outraged if someone tried to tell me what to put on top of the pizza I was making. Fine to ask not to have something (say olives) on it but to tell me what to put on it?

If they were lucky they would get handed the project, if they were unlucky they would be wearing it :-)

This is rather interesting to see the different interpretations and perspectives. I believe it starts with one person meaning the pizza "being ordered from the pizza joint" and the other interpreting it being a "pizza being made by them." I think it's a good example of the reason why clear communication is important.

From What is planA/planB:
Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.

In my case, my H wasn't (currently) wayward. He wholeheartedly agreed to apply the Harley principles in our M. He still professes to be "all in." Are you saying that at that time, knowing my H was a firm believer in the program, listening every day to the radio program, reading and re-reading the Harley books, etc. that you still would have advised me to go to Plan B (no contact)?