WE are not going to proceed without the facts simply because you are unable to perceive the signs that we all see. That would unfair to you. AND a waste of our valuable time. The reason is because nothing we tell you do will have an effect if there is an affair. It would be like treating you for heart disease while you are dying of cancer.

And if there is an affair, the longer you don't know, the harder it will be to save your marriage because the affair will become more and more entrenched every day.

So, we need you to take a more serious approach to resolving this problem. We are not telling you this because we are kooks, but because we have years of experience at this.

Dr Bill Harley is a clinical psychologist and the founder of Marriage Builders. He has specialized in infidelity for 40 years. Here is what he says:

ESL,

Has your W ever said to you "I love you but am not in love with you" or some variation on that?

God Bless
Gamma

Just wanted to say that I have never known the vets to be wrong on this one. If they say she is having an affair then she is.

Try putting a voice activated recorder in her car. That way you will instantly know if she has a second phone.

My XH had affairs for 16 years before I had any clue. They can be incredibly sneaky. Of course after I knew about the women, I realised that there were all sorts of classic clues that I had missed; an STD, an unexplained absence for a weekend, car towing fee from a place that was miles away from where he was supposed to be . . .

Most of the mistakes happened fairly early on in relationships. They get better at covering their tracks as they get more involved.

First off, you already know who she was talking to and he is a coworker. Saying you know where she is and she is at work so she can't be having an affair, is a contradiction when the person she is likely having an affair with is *at work*.

You have checked phone records, just once or multiple times? Are there reoccurring numbers coming in that you do not recognize? Or is this particular persons number coming in?

Do you have her password for FB? Is her coworker a friend on FB? Do you check frequently to see if there are any conversations taking place on FB? (these can be deleted AS you are writing them, so if you checked once and found nothing, that proves nothing).

Do you have her password for her personal email? Do you have access to deleted emails or are they permanently deleted?

Driving by her office, again, means nothing when her car and his car could sit side by side legitimately because they work together.

I won't even comment on the therapist asking her. Of course she is going to deny it.

Is she completely transparent, does she give you passwords and access to her devices? Or does she try and hide them from you? It sounds by your statement about snooping that you are afraid to snoop, because she would be upset. This indicates that she feels justified in having some privacy. This is a HUGE red flag.

Put spyware on her phone and a VAR in her car.


Hire a PI to follow her when sleeps at her moms. OR put a GPS on her car along with a VAR inside.


Easy enough to work around.


WE already know this. Cheaters always lie to therapists.


And except when she sleeps over her moms. Most affairs take place at work so I don't understand why you think that means she is not having an affair. We had one lady who actually dropped off and picked up her DISABLED husband at work. He was having a full blown sexual affair FOR YEARS!! Like I said, it is very common for cheaters to carry on at work.


You need to step up here and get serious. We can help you save your marriage, but you are going to have to start snooping.

Im not ashamed... I dont know if she feels she has something to hide, she hasn't changed passwords and things to make it hard for me... things are delicate now and trust us a topic... I trust her, im over her talking to that guy i dont suspeect its happening anymore. But if I im caught snooping without her knowing, it will be a trust issue. I dont want/need to be that kinda guy that doesn't trust my wife where i have to snoop. I dont want to snoop because i dont trust her. im an open book she can look if she wants, as can I. I only snooped because of this current issue wondering if there was someone else, i havent found anything to prove there was.

This is an emotional issue she is going through, and feeling i haven't meet certain ones... I want to meet them all, she is shut off right now and making it hard to let me. can there be someone else? Of course, thats something WE ALL may think at sometime in our lives.. its not something thats impossible, but ive found nothing to think there is currently.

Dr Harley does not believe in blind trust. Nobody should be trusted blindly. Because any one of us in the right circumstances could have an affair.

You are being silly. No one has the right to the privacy to destroy her spouse behind her back. You have a right to know absolutely everything she does when you are not around. She is hiding things from you and you have a right to take a look.

It is too much trust that leads to affairs. Putting your head in the sand will spell the demise of your marriage. It is not a lack of trust that ruins marriages, but a lack of boundaries. You already know your wife has very poor boundaries for a married woman.

It is untrustworthy to cheat on your spouse; it is not "untrustworthy" to CATCH that spouse cheating. Your odd and unrealistic views on "trust" will spell the death of your marriage if you don't wake up quickly, Sir.

Her lovebank is closed to you. And I know you know that. It is because it is open elsewhere.

ESL,

Another thing is that the set up is textbook, older man who has likely had a number of affairs, and is a "professional" at it, goes to your W for "advice" makes her feel important to him, likely makes himself look like a wholesome person with various stories about his life. You would think OM like him would drop dead from a lack of originality but yel they continue to breathe.

You need to speak with the OMs Wife it is likely to be an eye opener!

God Bless
Gamma

Im sorry, maybe im a complete idiot.. but ive been snooping for a few months now. with exception to voice recorder, Ive done everything else mentioned here. I have her itunes account and can see text messages, phone logs etc.. there's no odd numbers frequently called. There is no second phone, ive used her car from time to time, no hidden phone in the car. None in the house, We are both home together more then we aren't ALOT more... just sleeping in seperate rooms, my house isn't large enough where she can be talking on the phone and i can't listen to her. Ive gone into her pocket book looking for keys, no hidden phone. I have passwords to all. Ive talked to her family and friends all say no body else. I can't wire tap her office phones, I can't record convo's in her office. Im sorry you all feel so strongly, and i get it, majority of these cases scream affair. I just dont see what else i can do to prove its not happening? I have no access to her office, ive been there several times and meet a bunch of the people she works with, but i can't possible listen to anything or see anything going on in the office. IF/When I email or text her during work hours, she response promptly... If emotional needs are being met at the office its with a group of friends there, nothing else. None sexual.

You are giving different explanations here. You are now making it sound like you have done a complete and thorough job of snooping, when your previous messages indicate that you have not. Which is it?

If you busted her with phone records, it makes sense that you are not finding more phone records. It would make perfect sense for her to stop using that phone or use a completely different method of communication that you do NOT have access to.

I am sorry you are in this situation. Nobody wants to believe their spouse is capable of betrayal and lies. Nobody thinks this will happen to them. Please don't stick your head in the sand. Many posts start like yours, with a BS who is adamant that this is not possible. And by page 5 and sometimes half a year later, there is a post that says "I am sorry, you were all right, I just discovered the affair." But the longer things go before that discovery, the more difficult it is to stop, and the less likely your marriage is to recover.

ESL,

Do not let on you are snooping or they will take things even further underground.

What do you know about this OM has he had other affairs at work?

Has your W gone on field trips with him?

God Bless
Gamma

Your Gut informed you that something did not feel right, way back in May.

You let her know that her emotional attachment with the OM made you feel ill at ease.

So, she just Stopped having her emotional needs met by this OM?

OR

She continued to have those needs, and maybe more met by him and hides the evidence.

In the meantime, she has become disengaged with you no matter how hard you try and continues to pull away further.

Which option realistically seems to make more sense?

You need to learn about the addiction an affair, (Emotional or physical), and how it changes once wholesome, caring and moral spouses into lifeless emotionally dead aliens to a spouse attempting to show love, care and respect.

To her, while she is entertaining ANY thoughts and connection to the OM, she has her Love Bank COMPLETELY shut down to you. As a matter of fact, your efforts either infuriate or repulse her.

In her mind, it's YOUR Fault she turned to somebody else, because now it's Too Little, Too Late. Why didn't you know she needed that extra attention before? Now, your efforts are all because YOU don't want to lose her.

Wake Up!!!

There IS another man she has gotten attached to and you Know who the enemies of your marriage are.

Find out how to contact the OM's Wife. Maybe HE hasn't deleted info on His cell phone or internet history. Maybe She can install spyware secretly to find out for sure.

They hid there methods of contact. Go find it.

LTL

No it's not "most" of these situations turn out to be affairs but all. There is never any other explanation.

If there were a real problem she'd say "honey I have a problem and I want you to do x,y and z". When there is no concrete problem and she's leaving anyway, we tell people to snoop for an OS friend. However you already know about the guy and have tipped them off!

Please wake up and stop looking for 'ways to prove it isn't happening'. That's called denial.

You've already found proof. Excessive phone calls are the result of an emotional affair.

There were lots weren't there? Conversations lasting half hour at least I bet.

That's more than friendship and you can fight this if you get your thumb out of your bum and protect your family.

The man is clearly a predator posing as a wise sage with all the answers.

Would you involve yourself in another marriage like he has?

Listen to someone trash talking their husband without asking why on earth they are telling you instead of him?

Sexual needs are not the danger! It's conversation and support at work will have caused her to fall prey.

Any fool who has ever gotten into a woman's pants knows that. All he needs now is for her to separate from you and bingo.

Ten to one a PI would get what you need in a few days. When at her mother's, or at lunch etc.

Ill try to be clear one last time... I have already been through the snooping. I am in IT, I am fully aware of how to get into my wifes phone, email and social media. I am technical and am aware of how to get the information you are all speaking of. When I found these calls in June, I started snooping at length, To not only see if the convo's stopped, but to see if it was more then what she claimed it to be. I have found nothing else to indicate its more then it was and that its still going on out side of the office itself. I am 100% positive on that. What I do not know is if while IN the office they talk at all and what it may be about. I have NO way of wire tapping her office phones. I can see her office email on her phone and that too appears to be clean. im not stupid, im aware things can be deleted. Ive done ALL the snoooping i can do, with exception of a voice recorder in the car. She has a 20 min drive home, everymorning she talks with her mom on the way to work, I know this to be fact... phone records and my own talks with her mom. on her way home from work, She talks to one of her three best friends or brother... I know this to be fact based on phone records. One home, we are usually home together... Occasionally she will run out to CVS or get nails done.. I also know thats true as fact, i not only see the purchased products but i can also see time stamp on bank statements of purchases. IF the only advice on this site is that she is having an affair... and she really isn't having an affair, you are all stearing me down a very very dangerous and waste of time path. I appreciate the advice, and i understand your only working off the info i provide. I can't stress this enough.. I have snooped for a few months... have found NOTHING since June... There is ZERO way for me to know what conversations are taking place in person in the office without an NSA wire tap which just insane. So if nobody is willing to give me advice based on me already doing my duediligence in snooping, I dont see how this site will help.

You have only scratched the surface with your minor and ineffective snooping. It is not the "majority" of these cases, but ALL of them. I can think of ONE where an affair was not proven over 14 years, and it was a guy just like you who stuck his head in the sand. He ended up divorced.

Women don't leave their husbands over their "friends" at the office. They leave over affairs.

There is a reason we "feel strongly about it." It is because we are always - UNFORTUNATELY - right. And you may be the first one where we are WRONG. WE INVITE YOU TO PROVE US WRONG!!


Have you searched her room for a phone? What about an ipad? Does she use an ipad? Does she have a computer? Do you have a keylogger on it?

Ok do it your way.

It's not how I would react to an intruder in my marriage but since it's the skin on your nose you can chuck it all away if you want to.