Is that a "yes", or is it a "no"?

That is a No....

I think she had sex with this last man, and I think she had a threesome in the scenario you described earlier today.

You can't make her get tested, and there mere suggestion would probably make her throw another fit, but you should get done.

Well, I don't think anything sexual happened with either one of the scenarios, so I have no plans to get tested. I guess thats a risk I am willing to take. I mean I guess if I ever had any kind of symtom or abnormality down there, I would not hesitate, but in the mean time I am not worried at all...

You are the least objective person here, because you have an emotional involvement. BS fog/denial is a REAL issue on these forums, RR.

Not only do I firmly believe she had sexual contact in both scenarios - I would not be surprised if there were MANY things in her SSL that you were not aware of.

Err on the side of caution when your health is at risk.

The only time you should feel confident when discovering an EA that it did not turn physical is if there was NO OPPORTUNITY for sexual contact.

Almost every BS (myself included) foolishly believes their WS when they say it was "just an EA".

Your W won't even admit that her relationship with this last man was an "affair" at all.

You should assume she isn't being truthful with you and her "denial" that anything physical happened should hold ZERO weight with you.

The first incident I mentioned was 17 years ago, and if my health was in danger, then I think something would have surfaced by now??? Even though I do not believe that they had sex.

The reason I do not believe she had sex with her boss, in the incident from last year, is because of what I mentioned in my original thread, about how I discovered a lot more info. Basically I came home from work, and told my wife that I found a device at Bestbuy, that would allow me to access her SIM card on her phone, and view the last 5,000 or so texts on her phone, and if there was anything else she wanted to tell me before I read them. She got the deer in the headlights look, and started telling me all sorts of things. I was even able to match up what she told me, to the sequence of texts. What I found out still broke my heart, but it never implied that they had sex. It did confirm that they were openly communicating about the possibility of making it happen.

Now, I am not stupid, and I understand that she told me only what she had too, but it did help me put together some puzzle pieces that confirmed that although it was about to go physical, it never actually did.

RR,

You wrote, The first incident I mentioned was 17 years ago, and if my health was in danger, then I think something would have surfaced by now??? Even though I do not believe that they had sex.

Actually HPV which can cause many kinds of cancers sometimes decades later, can also be passed even by kissing as evidenced by the oral, head and throat cancers it causes.

http://www.cdc.gov/hpv/cancer.html

Think of it this way, if you do get tested, and since you know you have not strayed, a positive result is definitive proof your W had some kind of mucus membrane to mucus membrane contact with someone.

God Bless
Gamma

RR,

You wrote, My wife refuses to do a PG test. All hell broke loose last week when I brought it up as a way to help me heal.

Most likely because your W knows she cannot pass, from your description of the events 18 years ago it is almost certainly a sexual encounter. If as a poster suggested it was a threesome your W is terrified of the truth coming out.

One approach to the polygraph suggested here was to write down as many questions as have ever occurred to you about your Ws behavior and then the polygraph expert asks your W if she answered those questions honestly.

The event 18 years ago with your W is similar to what happened with my W 20+ years ago, she was involved with someone at work and I just buried myself in my own work to numb the pain.

I obliged to say this happened before we were married, although contact continued after marriage, but we never got back to the relationship we had before her fling.

Are you able to contact the OM from 18 years ago, who knows he might spill.

God Bless
Gamma

RR, I urge you not to get caught up the the obsessive behaviour that Gamma has adopted over recent years. He is convinced that if he can make friends with the man his then girlfriend (now wife) dated more than 25 years ago, at the same time as she dated him, a whole year before they married - a relationship that Gamma knew about at the time they got engaged. Gamma believes that if he can make friends with this man now, the man might tell him all about the relationship and what went on. Gamma blames that pre-marital cheating for his wife's lack of interest in Gamma, sexually, throughout their marriage.

Gamma believes that today, more than 25 years later, this man might tell Gamma - the now husband of the woman he dated before both anyone in this scenario was married - the truth about whether he had sex with Gamma's then-girlfriend (now wife), and whether they exchanged words of love etc. Gamma thinks that this now-married man might even sell him any love letters or trinkets if offered a reasonable price (as if a man would have kept these for one second after they stopped seeing each other, much less throughout his own long marriage). Gamma has gone as far as to trick his wife into TWICE attending an annual convention that he found out this man attends, in the hope that when Gamma and his wife "accidentally" run into this man, his wife and this man will be so startled, or so overcome, or so something, that the truth will come out. This revelation of the truth will either be so cathartic for his wife that she will let go of her guilt and once again become sexually interested in Gamma, or at the very least, it will give Gamma the grounds for leaving his wife.

All this for a relationship that happened when Gamma was neither married nor engaged to his now wife, whom he married many months after he knew of this relationship, which had ended before the engagement.

Gamma is living in crazy town, spiralling down a rabbit hole of his own obsession. Dr Harley has even posted on his thread and told him to drop this obsession; a relationship that happened before he was married or even engaged, when his wife was free to pick and choose between different men, has no bearing on his marriage today, 25 years later. But Gamma won't give up trying to find ways of speaking to this man about the relationship, and he urges his obsessions on other men who post here.

Your wife's behaviour 15 years ago was in a different category from Gamma's then girlfriend's, because she was married to you, and thus should not have been involved with other men. Nevertheless: there is no point your trying to track down and speak to this OM, in the hope that "he might spill". Have you ever heard of an OM honestly confessing to the husband, 18 years after he got away with fooling around with the wife? Why would he lay himself open to a beating for that? If a husband tracks down an OM many years after the event, wouldn't the OM work out that he was in trouble, and either give as good as he got with his fists, or shut up?

The radio shows yesterday and the day before both discussed marriages with wives something like yours; neither of the wives were at first willing to provide the kind of marriage that their husbands wanted and deserved - an MB marriage. Both had had affairs. Dr Harley and his son Steve worked with one couple over two years, and in the end were successful in getting the wife on board with contributing to an MB marriage. In that case, the wife was at least willing to coach with Steve, read Dr H's written materials and listen to the radio show. She resisted making any changes to her behaviour for two whole years, but in the end, the multi-pronged approach taken by her husband (Plan A, coaxing her to talk to Steve and read the books etc, and not giving up) turned their marriage around - only recently, but very successfully.

In the second marriage, the wife would not do the same things that the first wife would, and Dr H told the H that he should get out of the marriage when he'd had enough.

These two approaches are what I believe he'd tell you to do. He'd tell you to show your wife what an MB marriage looks like by following the rules yourself; meet her ENs, spend UA time, POJA etc. He'd tell you to give up trying to force your wife to confess more about the affairs or take a polygraph, if you can see that every request sends your marriage into a downward spiral. He'd tell you to take anti-depressants if they helped you to stay focused and not get downhearted with the lack of progress, and he'd tell you that when you'd had enough of being triggered by your wife's flirty behaviour and lack of transparency, that you should leave and go to Plan B.

He would not tell you to try contacting the OM to see if he'd spill the beans. He'd tell you to work on the problems you face today.

Since this is the Marriage Builders website, I thought I'd tell you what Dr Harley would say, and not let you get distracted by another poster's non-MB obsessions.

RR, go back and read SC's posts to you starting on page 18. I think she is right on the money. Having been through this kind of situation myself I can tell now that what she is saying to to is completely the right way to approach this and most likely very close to what Dr Harley would advise.

You absolutely cannot control your wife. She must make her own choices. But you can definitely model the behavior you expect in return and win her over. No doubt it will be absolutely depressing and that's where ADs can help you get through it.

I really like what SC has been suggesting, and thank you SugarCane for taking the time to follow up on my situation. I really do appreciate the input I receive here.

I did as suggested, and emailed the Harley�s again, and asked them about the Polygraph.


This is something I have really been trying to get my wife to understand. I do not want to control her. She is free to make her own choices. I am giving her a road map to my recovery and healing. If we cannot as Dr. Harley suggested on MB Radio, build a lifestyle that makes both of us feel secure, then it could potentially lead to the dissolve of our marriage.

I want to feel that safety and security that I once felt. I love my wife so much, and I will continue to work through these issues, in a loving understanding way.

I am not taking AD�s anymore, because I have finally got to a point where I don�t think about the affair all day long. I still think about it daily, but it is not as overwhelming as it once was. If I start to waiver, and struggle, I will go back on them.

I'm sorry RR but it should be obvious that she had sex with the Mexican guy at least. He wouldn't have continued to meet her unless he was getting sex. He was an obvious predator with an eye for women who can be easily swayed by flattery. He wouldn't waste time on a flirt if he wasnt getting any. He had another girl in the car for crying out loud.

If it had been only kissing - she wouldnt have admitted that much. She would have described kissing as 'nothing happened' Waywards usually only admit part of what actually went down.

Those who have spilled the entire bag - take the poly! Thrilled they have a way of showing proof!

I think this advice is golden and I'm sure the example your wife is setting for your daughters must be a concern. Dr H's guidance here will set up the best plan which will give everyone a safe place to land.

Here's the whole show SugarCane mentioned.

Radio Clip of 2-17-15's Show

Let us know when you hear back from the Harleys about the polygraph?

Brainy - you are wonderful!

I think the other show I mentioned must be dated Monday the 16th. Is there any chance you could supply that one, too?

Monday's was the successful show, while Tuesday's caller does not have a lot of hope yet.

Yes here it is.

Radio Clip of 2-16-15's show

If anyone happens to hear the Harley's address my last email about the Polygraph, will you please let me know. I am not able to listen to MB Radio everyday.

Did they tell you when it will be read?