Wishing her well has nothing to do with still loving her and wanting her back. I can't understand why you are tying the two things together.

Do you think you are in a position to simply decide not to love her, and not to want her back?

I think in these sentences SugarCane is giving you a lot of great insight into how it comes across when we minimize our Love Busters.

I am not going to crawl across broken glass and grovel about my past Love Busters. But I am also not going to ever speak about them as if they were justified, or not that bad. I imagine I would compare favorably to a lot of men if you compared our history of angry outbursts. But that would be irrelevant - I missed the mark. The mark is an emotional and somewhat irrational target, but to have a good marriage a husband needs to study it, understand it well, and become an expert marksman.

Thank you, SugarCane. Yes, I accept that how I behaved was wrong not just for my wife but period. I'm committed to avoiding angry outbursts in the future. I mention that they were rare because I am normally a very laid back person. It will not be hard for me to eliminate them. I have eliminated the aggressive driving. I am confident of that. All that took was a change in outlook. I don't even get angry when I drive anymore. Edit to add: I am confident, because I began working on this nine months ago, and I have remained calm while driving ever since.

I need some kind of explanation for why she left. This is the best I have come across. She hasn't told me anything specific, so I have to figure it out on my own.

If she did fall out of love with me, then I can't expect that she will change her mind after the affair ends. Although I would like a second chance, if she truly was not in love with me, then for my own sake it's best not to hold out hope of that happening.

If you remember Dr. Harley's work with Jon and Sue in SAA, Sue came back to John after the affair ended because it seemed to be the best option to her. She was not in love with him.

No, my angry outbursts were not justified. I don't think that for a second. I also don't mean to minimize them. It's just that it never occurred to me that they could be what caused my wife to fall out of love with me.

But Sue was in counseling with Dr. Harley.

I wish that I could do that.

She left because she is in love with somebody else.
She COULD fall in love with you again. Have you read how the lovebank works?
Sue did not fall in love with Jon just because she was in counseling with Dr. Harley. Dr. Harley did not fill her lovebank, Jon did. Countless BH have caused their WW to fall back in love with them -- markos did it for me almost against my will.

The problem you're going to face is that she's gone. It is far, far easier to do with a WW who still lives at home and with whom you have children.

Hope this doesn't stir the pot, but when I look at the buyer's concept for marriage and threads like this:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2634091#Post2634091

I come away feeling like wives who bottle it up are following a renter attitude.

You can't make it work if she's not willing to be honest and tell you where you're making mistakes, and when she's at the same time willing to have poor boundaries around men. You can't have a successful marriage that way. Dr. Harley told me this verbatim on the phone before my show, it's the main argument he had for me looking at divorce as the best option in my situation. He did not think my wife would ever become a buyer or agree to EPs, and thought repeat affairs were likely if we ever got back together.

Something to think about. The "why" of why she cheated is probably something you can't know nmwb77. Only she will ever know that unless she tells you. You'll go nuts trying to figure it out and it's a DJ to try and mind read her (though I'm tempted by the same temptation to try!)

You can only focus on you. And part of focusing on you (I feel) is doing a better job shopping next time. I feel the same way about my own situation. The LBs you know about and can work on are blessings because they are opportunities to get better. All of the rest of it is just speculation.

That's funny.
Yes, it's a huge problem.

You're right. Being blindsided is extremely traumatic, though. My rational mind needs an explanation.

And yes, I'm glad I found MB. I know that I'm already a better person for it. I feel better equipped for the next time, whether it's with my STBXW or with someone else.

I might have to add this to my signature!!

Take the #not# out and that pretty much sums up what I was taught about marriage. Glad to have something different to pass on to my kids!

This whole discussion has been very helpful!

I think this is what many in the US are taught about marriage, especially inside the Church. A lot of focus on the boundaries of marriage without much focus on the responsibilities of marriage.

Ax, your wife is not the typical wife, and your situation is not the typical situation.

In the typical marriage that comes to this board, where the husband is willing to do MB but the wife is not, he can turn the marriage around and win her back without much help from her.

Dr. Harley doesn't tell many men that they are better off getting a divorce. Your case is different.

I'm sorry, nmwb77, this is the first time I've looked at the board all day. I'm so glad to see that you've gotten excellent advice from Markos, Prisca and Sugarcane. You couldn't have been in more capable hands.

There is something I wanted to address...


Unless your WW was one of those folks that actually went out looking for someone to have an affair with, then you DO know why she cheated. It's the same reason every WS who "stumbles" [for lack of a better word] into an affair cheats. It's because they allowed someone other than their spouse to meet their emotional needs. It really is that simple.

Affairs don't happen BECAUSE of unmet emotional needs or even because of lovebusters. Unmet emotional needs and lovebusters can make someone vulnerable to having an affair, but they will only have an affair if they are not practicing extraordinary precautions to prevent someone other than their spouse to meet their emotional needs.

Mr. W could stop meeting my emotional needs and become a lovebusting fool, and I still would not have another affair, because now I KNOW how to keep myself and everyone around me safe -- I practice extraordinary precautions and will for the rest of my life. By the same token, Mr. W could be meeting every single one of my emotional needs and committing no lovebusters, and if I put myself in a position to do so, (by not practicing extraordinary precautions), I would have another affair. The ONLY thing that protects any of us from having affairs (other than sheer luck) is taking extraordinary precautions to prevent someone other than our spouse from meeting our emotional needs. Until a WS really gets that, and puts it into practice, they are not safe to be married to.

Mrs. W

Thank you, MrsW. You're right. Normally I'm not like this. Honest. I am usually a rational thinker, and things don't confuse me like this. With this affair, though, I forget the things I learn and jump to wrong conclusions as SugarCane rightly pointed out above. My work is also suffering because I forget to do things.

I've learned from MB that affairs happen because of poor boundaries. However, my WW insists that her leaving had nothing to do with the affair. I know she's lying, but I can't seem to get that out of my head. Sometimes I even wonder if I'm crazy and there actually isn't an affair, even though she admitted it to me and I have the evidence from her phone.

Some quotes I just shared about anger on another thread. Markos suggested I post it here, just to show the seriousness of even one angry outburst:

Here

Here

Here

Here

Thank you, Prisca. That is very kind of you.

No more angry outbursts from me. I'll prove it if I ever get the chance.

Gaslighting.

I know you know that, just chiming in to encourage you. My WW and most other waywards say the same thing. I get frustrated by it too.