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It's amazing what gaslighting does to the brain. I consider myself a fairly intelligent person, but I had the hardest time convincing myself that what I was seeing with my own two eyes was real.
Remarried 7/16
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Emotion is more powerful than reason. You're a smart guy, you're just heartbroken.
Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders" 2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more. When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29 Married: 7 years Together: 8 years D-day: 10/5/2014 D filed: 1/22/2015 D Final: 6/4/2015 My story
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It's amazing what gaslighting does to the brain. I consider myself a fairly intelligent person, but I had the hardest time convincing myself that what I was seeing with my own two eyes was real. Whenever there is a conflict between your heart and mind, listen to your mind.
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Whenever there is a conflict between your heart and mind, listen to your mind. I actually had to take my evidence to a friend and have her look through it. My brother didn't see any of my evidence, but he put two and two together and told me it was an affair. I had the evidence but still couldn't believe it. It wasn't until my friend assured me that the evidence was clear that I actually believed it.
Remarried 7/16
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I come away feeling like wives who bottle it up are following a renter attitude.
You can't make it work if she's not willing to be honest and tell you where you're making mistakes, and when she's at the same time willing to have poor boundaries around men. You can't have a successful marriage that way. Dr. Harley told me this verbatim on the phone before my show, it's the main argument he had for me looking at divorce as the best option in my situation. He did not think my wife would ever become a buyer or agree to EPs, and thought repeat affairs were likely if we ever got back together. Ax, your wife is not the typical wife, and your situation is not the typical situation. In the typical marriage that comes to this board, where the husband is willing to do MB but the wife is not, he can turn the marriage around and win her back without much help from her. Dr. Harley doesn't tell many men that they are better off getting a divorce. Your case is different. I would agree. Dr. Harley didn't tell me that I was better off getting a divorce directly, but strongly implied it. But I am a woman and Dr. Harley knows that if a man is having an affair and won't do much to end it or put into plane EPs, life for a woman will be hellish. And, of course, at some point she'll lose interest and just leave anyway (which is what is happening to me now). Men it seems have a much better chance at winning back their wives overall. Women really can't do that (not should they, quite frankly). So, it's not a great position to be a betrayed wife.
Me: 38, have been divorced for 4 years
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Really? Whenever I see a gallant soul Plan Aing a WW I thank goodness I'm Martha and not Arthur.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I just meant for women who wanted to save their marriage. I didn't have a bad marriage and it was sudden for me too. Like nmwb, there were definitely LBs I am working on eliminating though, mostly anger and disrespect. They weren't a daily thing either, but I can see how even occasionally it does a number on a marriage.
I'm losing interest, but it is still difficult for me, particularly because I have a young kid. I'd really like him to fight for us, but it no longer makes me feel unlovable that he doesn't. It just indicates to me that he doesn't care.
Me: 38, have been divorced for 4 years
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I actually can't imagine what it's like to have a child in the mix. The cuddles must be nice though.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Whenever there is a conflict between your heart and mind, listen to your mind. I actually had to take my evidence to a friend and have her look through it. My brother didn't see any of my evidence, but he put two and two together and told me it was an affair. I had the evidence but still couldn't believe it. It wasn't until my friend assured me that the evidence was clear that I actually believed it. An advise guiven to me was retell that same story as if it where not you, but someone else"... When you do, you'll be able to see things you can't see when it is you. I use this now. it is a tool I use because I tend to be guided by emotions more than by my mind. It works.
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I would agree. Dr. Harley didn't tell me that I was better off getting a divorce directly, but strongly implied it. But I am a woman and Dr. Harley knows that if a man is having an affair and won't do much to end it or put into plane EPs, life for a woman will be hellish. And, of course, at some point she'll lose interest and just leave anyway (which is what is happening to me now). Men it seems have a much better chance at winning back their wives overall. Women really can't do that (not should they, quite frankly). So, it's not a great position to be a betrayed wife. I consider us blessed that markos and mine positions were not reversed. We probably would've divorced 4 years ago.
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I've been feeling very down lately. I don't know if any of the FWWs on here actually left their husbands with the intention of being with the AP, but my WW has done exactly that. Our divorce will be final soon. I find myself thinking about what if she were to come back, how could I ever believe that she would not leave me again? My WW never complained to me about anything. That's not an exaggeration. It's not that I just ignored her complaints. She really did not complain (even now she cannot or will not point to anything specific). So I was completely blindsided. Right up until the end she was telling me she loved me (apparently in her mind it was a sibling-like love). So how could I possibly know in the future whether she was faking it or not?
I know this is a hypothetical because there's no guarantee and currently no indication that she would ever come back, but if I could work this out in my mind it would be easier to move on without her. I'm still in love with her, and I don't want to live my life without her, but living my life with her would be just as miserable if I could never believe she was in love with me, too. Kind of late replying, but I really must comment on this one. I never complained to my husband pre-affair either, and he did extremely hurtful moves on me, and I even hid myself in the bathroom many times to cry and not told him. I dont think she she was faking it before when she said she loved you, she did, but angry outburst also had its part. I dont know if this applies to you but before my affair I did both... Love my husband and simultaneously resent him. Only that when OM appeared, I wanted to logically explain to me why it was okay, and therefore eliminated our good times from my memory, and what was left was all the chaos of our marriage... Which made me walk out back then. Don't take for reals anything she is saying now, while in the fog. It's not true. You may have had angry outburst which are bad, and probably affected her, but I believe to justify her actions, she has erased the good memories.
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Kind of late replying, but I really must comment on this one. I never complained to my husband pre-affair either, and he did extremely hurtful moves on me, and I even hid myself in the bathroom many times to cry and not told him. I dont think she she was faking it before when she said she loved you, she did, but angry outburst also had its part. I dont know if this applies to you but before my affair I did both... Love my husband and simultaneously resent him. Only that when OM appeared, I wanted to logically explain to me why it was okay, and therefore eliminated our good times from my memory, and what was left was all the chaos of our marriage... Which made me walk out back then.
Don't take for reals anything she is saying now, while in the fog. It's not true. You may have had angry outburst which are bad, and probably affected her, but I believe to justify her actions, she has erased the good memories. Thank you so much, FSadSoul. Sometimes I let the situation get the better of me. I know her statements are clouded by her affair. I know she loved me. She had her affair because she let someone else meet her emotional needs. There is nothing I can do about that now. I'll see what happens after the divorce. I'll give it six months, then reevaluate and possibly give it another six months. That would be the full two years, which is how long 95-98% of affairs last. Dr. Harley advised me to wait a year after the divorce. That's what I plan to do. I'm not going to let my mind wander anymore. I will work on improving myself, and I'll be a better partner when she ends her affair or I move on with someone new.
Remarried 7/16
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I will work on improving myself, and I'll be a better partner when she ends her affair or I move on with someone new. THAT'S the thinking that will get you through.
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I will work on improving myself, and I'll be a better partner when she ends her affair or I move on with someone new. THAT'S the thinking that will get you through. I'm a work in progress. 
Remarried 7/16
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I would agree. Dr. Harley didn't tell me that I was better off getting a divorce directly, but strongly implied it. But I am a woman and Dr. Harley knows that if a man is having an affair and won't do much to end it or put into plane EPs, life for a woman will be hellish. And, of course, at some point she'll lose interest and just leave anyway (which is what is happening to me now). Men it seems have a much better chance at winning back their wives overall. Women really can't do that (not should they, quite frankly). So, it's not a great position to be a betrayed wife. I consider us blessed that markos and mine positions were not reversed. We probably would've divorced 4 years ago. Yes. It's a hard thing and it stinks, but I have accepted there is little I can do about. The only thing that is funny (not haha funny, of course) is that I don't think he'll ever be truly done with me. He won't file for divorce. I'll be the one to do it. He also is always trying to initiate contact. I am sure that will lessen, but it'll be there. I don't see him ever really letting go completely. His dad did the same thing with his mom. Even after 20 years he'd try to initiate contact, etc. my WHs stepdad occasionally had to run him off.
Me: 38, have been divorced for 4 years
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Yes. It's a hard thing and it stinks, but I have accepted there is little I can do about. The only thing that is funny (not haha funny, of course) is that I don't think he'll ever be truly done with me. He won't file for divorce. I'll be the one to do it. He also is always trying to initiate contact. I am sure that will lessen, but it'll be there. I don't see him ever really letting go completely. His dad did the same thing with his mom. Even after 20 years he'd try to initiate contact, etc. my WHs stepdad occasionally had to run him off. Hmmm, that might explain his comment about how you treat him like he's a leaper or whatever it was he said. Did he have a relationship with his father?
Remarried 7/16
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Yes. It was a relationship of unconditional love on his part and basically no care on his dad's part. My WH was always giving him money, for example. My WH loved his dad and his dad didn't do almost anything for his kids. He never paid child support, rarely saw them growing up. My brother in law almost didn't come to the funeral when he died. My WH on the other hand was really broken up about it and got really mad that his mother didn't want to go to the funeral.
Me: 38, have been divorced for 4 years
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I actually can't imagine what it's like to have a child in the mix. The cuddles must be nice though. The cuddles are the best. I told her the other day that I was going to "cuddle her with the fury of a thousand snuggles!!" She had no idea what that meant but thought it was hilarious. Totally off topic, but she is the light of my life.
Me: 38, have been divorced for 4 years
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