Zach-
I have been reading along. I have been trying to put myself in this young lady's shoes. I have this client who I would consider one of my greatest fans. I consider him like a father. If he were to at some point turn his admiration into intimate territory, I would be heart-broken and disgusted. You see, to me, his admiration of my good qualities would be worthless if it came from someone who was disloyal to his wife. This young gal either saw you the same way, or she is not a loyal person. By the way, my husband knows that he is a fan. This is a transparent relationship where my husband has been not just told about it, but included.

I want to leave you with some words that Dr. Harley gave to someone on the private forum.



You are leading your wife to believe that she is your "one and only". When she is not. Please read the last sentence.

There is hope, Zach.

"Yer not dead!" from MontyPython and the Holy Grail

If you truly believe this, Im not sure what can be done for you here. What you had was absolutely an emotional affair.

Zach,

You have received a lot of good advice in the last day, especially from lightwalker and Sugar Cane. Have you read lightwalker's posts? I think you're feeling hurt and confusion now (withdrawal) because your 'friend' is guarding her marriage and she is off-limits. However, go beyond yourself and your feelings now. What if she had answered and encouraged you to further engage in an affair? Would you feel badly about her BH, and would you feel badly about destroying her marriage? Or, would you feel badly about foisting your own unhappiness on others for the purpose of temporary relief? How would you feel about the ultimate betrayal of your W?

You seem like an honest guy, but struggling now and very tempted and vulnerable. I was going to suggest something like a retreat - time to think and reflect about where you are and what you can do about it. Think, Sugar Cane put it well - to read everything you can here on MB concepts, and to get and read SAA. There is a wealth of information on this site, and even more if you read the threads of other posters who are dealing with adultery - both the betrayed and the wayward. I think this exercise will help to clear your mind

Tom

"Yer not dead!" from MontyPython and the Holy Grail"

I would add the word 'yet' at the end *s*

Zach,

From where I stand age 60 is young! You may not feel that way, but it is, if you take care of yourself. I think it's time to reinvent yourself, and you can do that by carefully taking advantage of the advice here and putting it into practice. Focus on your W no matter how entitled you may feel for affection, etc., etc., and learn to reinvent yourself for her and your M.

Tom

Thanks Tom. I appreciate your insights, and much of what you say is true. I do not know how you sustain a marriage over many decades. Seems like the things that attracted you in the first place get shoved away as you deal with life... kids, jobs, houses, aging parents, and the unpleasant surprises life has a way of dishing out. Our first years together were wonderful, the best of my life, no question. Opposite sex friendships at that time were out of the question, in fact, there were a couple I walked away from, cheerfully and gladly, not because I'm virtuous, not because of a marital contract, not out of fear of committing a sin, but simply because I had everything I could want at home, and needed nothing more. Today, however, those years are a distant memory. And I'm not sure why that occurred. Just the business of life crowding things out. For years, I sustained myself with the belief that eventually life would quiet down, the kids would be raised, parent issues over, and we'd have a rediscovery. Well, the last parent passed away in 2009, and we did have some problems with the kids which have pretty much quieted down as well. But there's been no rediscovery, and no sign of one. Tell you the truth, my wife seems perfectly happy with things as they are. I wish I could be.

All I'm hearing is we have to "work" on it. We didn't work on it before, it was there. "Work" on it suggests trying to force something to work that isn't working, and that's never been my approach to relationships at any time. You don't "make" things happen, you let them happen.

I find myself looking at her (my wife). For age 56, she's not a bad looking woman. A little on the plump side, that wasn't there before, but time and gravity take their toll. If you get her away from the house and the kids, she's not bad company. How do I reignite the desire for her in me??? That's the problem. That's really the problem. If I could "fix" that, everything else would fall into place nicely. And if that is truly gone - you are further along than I am in life, so what takes its place that makes life worthwhile?

First of all, Markos, I apologize if I ignored your posts. There's been so many, it's hard to keep track of what I've responded to, and what I haven't.

I've read much of the material presented on the website, and much of it makes sense. What exactly is the free Marriage Builder's program you refer to?

Also, I'm not just writing to go on and on. I'm trying to clarify my thinking. One of the worst aspects of a situation such as this is there is no one to talk to, no one to get feedback from. I agree totally with Tom2010 that continuing to figure out what's what with the younger one is a waste of time. I couldn't agree more.

The question I raised to him, and I raise to you as well, is how do I reignite desire for my wife within me. If I could do that, I think everything else would fall into place nicely. I would certainly be highly motivated to do everything I can to resurrect our relationship, and do so, not pro forma, but because I really want it, and if it fails, well then, at least I did my best, which is better than what I've just put myself through. How do you do that?

We are suggesting you do the same things you did when your marriage was great and you were in love. Having a bad marriage is hard. Having a great marriage is not hard.

By the way, Tom, I have "reinvented" myself. At least partially. Two years ago, I dropped 75 pounds, and am slimmer today than I was at age 20. I exercise regularly, am careful what I eat. Last summer, I went on a hike in the Rockies with my youngest son and his boy scout troop. 75 miles, over 2 peaks, elevation change of 6000 feet, over 10 days. Not bad for 60! I also completed an MBA program at work, four years of projects, papers, and classes. I've done a lot of things to make myself better. Trouble is, while I can do things like that, which are 100% under my control, and succeed, but, to carry that over into the real part of my life, the home, the job, well... I'm not as successful. In fact, I'm something of a failure. Nothing seems to make any difference.

Zach, my H and I have been married for 35 years. Some of it was fine, some quite mediocre, and some of it pretty bad. Most people fall out of love because they neglect to maintain the good habits they started out with, the practices that led them to be in love in the first place.

Most couples let everything else come first: careers, children, family obligations. They stop spending time alone together out on dates.

Most divorces are initiated by women, because they are neglected by their husbands. Dr. Harley strongly encourages husbands to start meeting their spouses first and eliminating their own love busters, because husbands are in the prime position of being able to win their wives back more easily than the other way around.

My H and I have been in love for the last four years in a way unsurpassed during the previous 31 years. Why? Because my H created good marital habits and eliminated his love busters. He made it so easy for me to start meeting his needs, too.

Why not read the books that were recommended to you? What would you have to lose? Read SAA to start with, even though you don't believe you had an affair. Read how affairs start and how you can protect your marriage. Then read HNHN and Love Busters. For a great marriage, you have to make an effort to create and maintain good habits. After the habits are created, it's hardly an effort at all.

You can't go wrong trying to recreate a great marriage. You will be much happier than divorcing, than having an affair, than staying just to stay. Being in love is wonderful, and it's absolutely possible in a long-term marriage. If we managed to do it, so can you.

Wow, sounds like you did some "work" there, doesn't it? You mean the 75 pounds didn't magically drop off by itself? The MBA didn't magically appear? Did you just "let that happen" to you?

Yet, none of that really affects your quality of life like a great marriage, does it?

It's interesting how you expect your marriage to "just happen" to you when you put no effort into it. But ironically, because you put no effort into it, it is a HARD relationship that brings you unhappiness. It is like living in a house where you never make repairs and then you complain that it is falling down around you. Your own approach to relationships has not worked.

Your approach to marriage:


The approach of people who have happy, romantic, passionate marriages:

I missed this post, but it is encouraging that you are asking. The first thing you have to understand is that feelings FOLLOW actions. We will show you a series of actions that will cause you and your wife to fall in love with each other. It does not happen by fairy magic, but by the same steps you took when you were dating.

The only reason it would fail is if either of you won't follow these steps. If you are sincere, we can help you do this.

I would like to add that a confession to your wife about your affair will be the catalyst you both need. Your radical honesty will make a huge difference to how she feels about your marriage. Be sure to tell her everything all at once.

Bad marriage habits form very slowly over many years. It can be very hard to suddenly alter course. Many on this forum have found that the wake up call of an affair was traumatic but ultimately saved their marriages.

Zach,

I hope you understand now every poster here has been attempting to get your attention. Comments may seem harsh at times, but as pointed out, every one of us has felt the pain, and suffered through the worst moments of our lives as the result of thoughtless behaviors--our own or that of our spouse. No one wants to see you or anyone else live through unnecessary suffering. When we see others heading down the road towards a head-on collision, the instinct is to shout stop! People here really care. I hope you can feel that.

Many of us, especially in long term marriages have gone through many of the same trials and hardships you have. There have been deaths of family members, caring for aging and ill parents, sick or troubled children...my husband and I have experienced all of that. It can take a real toll on a marriage for sure. Those issues can contribute to the problems, but they are not the reason a marriage fails.

If you read through the MB material as it sounds like you are beginning to do, your questions about what causes the loss of love in a marriage will probably be answered. It is logical; it makes sense. There is no guarantee that it will revive your marriage--that does take the effort of two people, but you will at least have a better understanding about marriage and relationships and what it takes to maintain one. You may also learn a lot about yourself in the process and that is a good start.

If you really think about it, you may realize that in the beginning you and your wife really were making an effort to care for each other, and it was the reason you were attracted enough to each other to marry. Somewhere along the way you probably stopped putting in that effort and the marriage began to suffer for it, there was no magic to it. Good relationships of any sort always take effort. For starts they must begin with goodwill towards the other and they are comprised of repectful, thoughtful behaviors.

I don't believe the kind of relationship which is wonderful but takes no effort really exists in the real world, and I think those who think this way end up unhappy and disillusioned. Often they are those who move from relationship to relationship seeking something they can't find. Sometimes they resort to relationships which are easy, but not legal in most states and in the end doesn't fulfill their real needs. Sometimes they end up alone...

As far as the loss of physical attractiveness to each other, well we all age. We all must deal with that at some point in our lives, but as MB points out emotional attraction can lead to physical attraction. It doesn't always have to be the other way around.

How on earth can you desire her while you lie to her?! Not possible.

You probably can't look at her.

How on earth can you desire her while you lie to her?! Not possible.

You probably can't look at her.

The irony is that it takes no effort to maintain a relationship when you are in love. It is not an "effort" for me to go out on dates with my husband. It is not an "effort" to have enjoyable conversations with him and do things with him because I am in love with him. It is the greatest joy of my life.

It is doing those very things that sustain the romantic love in a marriage. When couples STOP doing those things is when they fall out of love.

That is a freeloader philosophy, and it simply is not true. How did you win your wife's attention before you married her? Did it just happen, or did you do things to make it happen?

I have to wonder what you would think if your wife took to some younger man and started fantasizing on him. I think you would be hurt. Put the energy into your marriage that you are wasting in "letting things happen". You can have a great marriage, but you are going to have to build it. Or, you can sit in the middle of a pile of lumber and wait for a house to self-assemble. Who knows, it might "just happen".

The Marriage Builders Radio program is Dr. Harley's free daily radio show. You need to know just who Dr. Harley is and what he does, and the best way to find that out is here:

How Dr. Harley Learned to Save Marriages

I think if you will read that you will find that Dr. Harley has just what you are looking for: a plan to get you to fall in love with your wife again, and vice versa. I think you will find that Dr. Harley knows how to teach couples how to sustain the feeling of romantic love for decades (he and his wife Joyce have done it themselves), and how to NOT shove aside the things that attracted you to each other in the first place.

My wife and I learned this plan and put it into practice in our marriage. We are now very happily in love with each other. (Despite having seven kids and being married for eleven years.) One of our main sources of education was Dr. Harley's radio program.

The radio program can be listened to on your computer or on your phone or tablet with an app. (So you can listen in your car, or wherever.) Here is the main page for the radio show:

Marriage Builders Radio


Zach, I'm going to be very frank with you. You and I have something in common: our best thinking ruined our marriages. When I got here, and when you got here, what was true about both of us is that we had no idea how to save our marriages. You've arrived with the idea that you need to clarify your thinking, and write to do that, but I can tell you from my own personal experience that the best thing you can do for now is put your thinking on the back burner and check out the ideas of someone who can actually successfully save marriages. Dr. Harley's plan has been tested for decades. There are no cases where both husband and wife followed it without falling back in love with each other.


I had a few paid phone calls a few years back with Dr. Harley's son Steve, who is also an expert marriage counselor. Steve told me that the most important thing I needed to do was to embark on a serious program of education to learn what tools were available for me here to save my marriage and how to use them. He was right. There were no quick answers; I needed to listen and learn and practice a LOT to learn how to save my marriage.

The most important piece of that was the Marriage Builders Radio show, and the best advice I can give you is to start listening to it daily. There is a new show each weekday and you can listen 24/7. I would strongly encourage you to catch today's show and make plans to catch tomorrow's, and then keep going after that. It will be more valuable for you than anything on this forum. The forum can give you great support in following Dr. Harley's plan if you decide to try to do that.

ML, Very good point. What feels like an effort for those of us in the beginning stages of restoring a marriage, no longer is an effort when we are in love again.