To all spouses, especially the guys,

Do not neglect the needs of your spouses.

DO follow the Harley principles and plan.
Do not value friends and family over her for anything.
I neglected my wife's needs for 20 years. I didn't invoke POJA. I did a lot of independent behavior thinking it was "normal" and OK, because I invited her along most of the time.
Dr Harley is absolutely correct when he asserts that spouses, especially wives, withdraw and at some point, they are too far gone for them to convince themselves to re-invest in their marriage.
At one point several years ago, she discussed divorce. I made the mistake of mentioning it to my sister and brother. They replied something to effect of "Give her the divorce. You've bent over backwards to please her." I responded with 'thank you' as I felt like I wasn't the one "off base" on whatever the issue(s) were and they weighing in with their opinion based on my input.
My first mistake was not using POJA for everything and acknowledging issues. My second was sharing with my siblings, and my third mistake was not defending my wife, in fact thanked them. For, if I were objective, I'd realize how much she had invested in me and my children, her stepchildren. I was such a selfish fool.
I cannot express enough my remorse, shame and regret.


Good points.


Now here's where it appears to get sketchy...

Now, it has become a matter of choosing between my large extended family and my wife.

Remark- Picture you and your wife, together, surrounded by a bubble. Whenever you are both ENTHUSIASTIC, you can see them. REGARDLESS of your wife's words, this is the rule. This is what �leaving and cleaving� means, Remark. You and your wife together may need to leave your family alone for a while until that bubble is built. Then, if successful, you might be able to add back interactions in a mutually enthusiastic way. In the past, your wife willingly engaged with you and your family, and when the ambush occurred, you defected to the enemy camp, leaving her alone to fight for herself. How could she even see them as allies? Even if she were willing, it would only be after being able to trust you, as her protector. That has NOT happened.

Whether you like it or not, the interaction you have with your family has been tarnished by YOUR OWN choices, and if you don't fix this now, there will be poor consequences for you with them even if you are divorced.


Yes, I agree. It was my choices for many years that has convinced her we must separate. That is why I felt compelled to warn other guys before it's too late.

I'm not giving up.

I love the bubble analogy. Am embracing it. It's been 5 - 8 years I'm guessing since my wife and we had the e-mail exchange where my wife was so character-assassinated based on the information I had given them. So, (1) I feel the guilt of supplying them with their "evidence" (2) I've repented from the sin of sharing that information with them or anyone.

And I don't even know the extent of what family members she is talking about. I even asked her just now, and she just said 'It doesn't matter." I said, "please it matters to me", and she said "(I'll ) pass". The email "altercation" 5-8 years ago involved my sister and brother. She feels distant from my Dad, but they've never had words or anything. I think she just feels they will all defend me to the end, if/when it comes out we are separating, no matter how I communicate it.

With my dad being 89, me the oldest, I just feel time is not to be lost/wasted.


By the way, it looks to me like you are seeing yourself as the victim or martyr here? (Blah, Blah, Blah, See? Even Dr. Harley says that it's too late. What's the point? My wife says Boo.)

Am I mistaken?[/color]

No, I'm not a martyr. Based on all she tells me, I am simply attempting to warn others of their fate if they follow my selfishness and stupidity. I'm a victim only in the sense of being a victim of my own stupid decisions over the years.

I know the Harley answer. It would have been infinitely easier to mourn a decision on some minor conflict than to mourn the loss of your wife or family. And with POJA, you wouldn't be mourning anything.

This is not the answer. It is a true statement, but don't mistake it as a judgment of the future. And don't use it as an excuse to give up. You are responsible to hold up your end of the marriage now, just like she did for 20 long years, Remark. Don't you dare quit on her now, and then gaslight her because she says she's done.

I'm not giving up. I just communicating on the forum what/where she is communicating where sh stands
She is beyond her point of returning to our marriage I fear.

You should fear. But fear is not a reason to quit or fall short of your marriage vows. Remark, you are talking like a quitter over and over again. She is not going to try to beg you to rise up and be the hero at this point. Why would she? Instead of filing for divorce, she sent you here. She sent you because she knew that we would help you, because you didn't want to hear her. Don't quit, Remark. You can do this. Hold fast to your partner, even when she can't do the same. Show her that you are starting to understand, and that when you hit confusion, you will be open to listening.


All I know to do is warn and advise others of my foolishness.

Is that really true?

Yes, I think so. I will honor my wife to the very end even when is it so hard.

Please heed my message of warning.

Remark,Love your spouse. Continue toFollow the Harley program before it's too late.

Remark-
Honor your wife. It is not too late to do that.


Remark

Because I want my marriage to succeed, I'll entertain that. I'll give up my four other kids, (I presume she doesn't mean our son together,) my parents, and siblings, and grand children. That's some 20 plus people. (25, I just added them up.)

Please forum, now tell me how I communicate that to them.

I love her. I want to support her. I want to do the right thing.

Does you wife want you to stop talking to them or just stop seeing them or have no relationship at all?
Dearest family-

For the next while, I will be focusing 100% on creating a great relationship with my wife whom I love dearly. As long as I am married, I will make all of my decisions with her in mind. I love you all and hope that you can support us in our plans to honor our marital vows to protect and care for each other.

Yes, she wants me out of the house ASAP.

I have nothing long, nor elegant to add here.

However, just from the posts from this last week, I can guess you are going to end up divorced, Remark.

All you have really done here is attempt to explain or justify why you can't make the needed changes to save your marriage, and then put on a drama queen act about it.

Your long responses neither fool nor impress anyone.

You are not even one iota serious about saving your marriage. But, you sure put a lot of effort in attempting to impress anonymous strangers on the internet with hopes to manipulate your wife.

Are you here to learn marriage builders, or blog about why you can't?

HHH,

Yes, I am here to learn to be a better spouse, a Harley spouse. I am so interested that I am pursuing anonymous internet folks because they seem to have it mastered Dr. Harley's program which I, too, believe in and am learning, but not mastering at an impressive pace.

Sorry to come across as drama queen.

Thanks for your thoughts/advice.

Remark