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http://biblehub.com/1_peter/3-7.htmThat couldn't be more clear. Treat your wife as you should, or God won't hear your prayers. There's no point going to church when she's reluctant about you going to church and not happy with your relationship. God won't listen to you there, anyway. This is completely clear, too: http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-23.htmhttp://biblehub.com/matthew/5-24.htmGod doesn't want your gift of church attendance - he wants you to make a good marriage! He wants you to keep the covenant you made to make this woman happy!
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Yes, I am sure DidntQuit meant the Four Guidelines For Successful Negotiation. How you "appear" to us, is of little import. How you appear to your wife is what matters.
That you came to a POJA decision with her might be a start. But what matters most is the manner by which you reach a decision. Here's an idea:
1. Print out the POJA rules from LoveBusters. Post them into the front of a small notebook.
2. Every time you have a decision to make or a conflict, pull out your cheat sheet and make sure that you follow the POJA steps exactly and in order. This is not as easy as it looks.
3. Write both of your positions into YOUR personal notebook. Read it back to your wife to make sure that what you are hearing correctly reflects her feelings about the subject.
4. Write down all enthusiastic agreements or plans.
5. Sign and Date each agreement or plan.
6. Refer to it often.
Keeping this notebook will help you to keep your agreements and learn to follow POJA without skipping important steps. Each step will take time to master. You wife's positive feelings during negotiation will be one indicator of success. Thanks, HHH, Great idea. Have notebook. I know it isn't easy. Will foolow that plan. Thanks for your support. Remark
Do you mean the Four Guidelines for Successful Negotiation on page 311 of Love Busters?
Thanks,
Remark
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Yes! Thank you Markos.
Print out the guidelines and follow the steps in order.
This is how to learn to walk with unity in your marriage. Each step takes practice. But especially make sure that you have an accurate written description of your wife's position. Don't assume. Ask her if what you have written down is an accurate description of the problem from her viewpoint.
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Remark, did you listen to today's radio show?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Here is a great example of SugarCane giving you perfect information about what will work in your situation. I faced this exact same sort of thing, and my wife hated it when I went to see my family alone without her. She wouldn't go because they were disrespectful to her, and she told me I could go alone, but she was miserable. I finally told them we and the kids wouldn't see them again until they apologized to her and provided assurances that they would not do it again. It took them about two years to come around (much like the parents in the In-Laws chapter of Love Busters), but they did apologize, and we reconciled with them and have a great relationship with them today. But I had to be ready to go for broke - I wasn't going to see my parents at all except for funerals unless they apologized, and I expected at one point that I really wouldn't see them again until their funerals. In the meantime, we built a really happy life together on our own. Remark here,
What I was intending to convey is that, if it is Not independent behavior, and she doesn't want to go visit them, may/should I go alone? As I understand independent behavior, it is not IB if both parties agree in POJA fashion, with neither being neglected or offended. Joyce goes shopping or to choir while Dr H does something else with no IB being committed. Now, granted, a weekend apart isn't good normally, but we sleep in different rooms anyway. I'd miss her, but I don't think I would be missed.
It is a six hour drive to their town. That is the 'burden' to her that I don't mind.
You're saying I shouldn't go at all even if she approves of it?
Remark Remark, I don't think you'd even be discussing this issue here if you already knew for certain that your wife was enthusiastic about your going to visit your family alone. I think that what you need to ask yourself is whether a visit alone would make love bank deposits. If it would not make love bank deposits, then don't do it. We've talked about your wife saying "do what you like", and I think you knew before you began posting again this week that her saying that is not POJA. I would say that you would not be showing care and concern for your wife's treatment by your family if you even tried to get her agreement to your going alone. She might even say "yes" enthusiastically, because that would get you off her back for another few months, and lessen your resentment, but think about the resentment that your going might create for her. If I read this correctly, your family has sometimes been unkind to your wife, and that is partly why she does not want to go. If you go and see them alone because she won't go with you, what does that say about your caring about how she has been treated?
Great to be back in touch with you!
Things not going to well. I mess up alot even though I am committed to the Harley Plan.
Yes, I agree with Sugarcane's advice, yours and DidntQuit's. I appreciate the forum, all of it, though I come across negatively to some.
Have notebook, will update it with the Four Guidelines. Have quit all independent behavior, though, without thinking, son and I went to church on Easter, without her as she has stopped all together.
Church not an issue. I can be faithful and even catch sermons on the web.
The family thing I agree with. The falling out was 5-6-7 years ago. Details I'm sure I've shared but I'll give them if you want. Anyway, I "cut ties then" but it only lasted a few months. They apologized. Since then, I've seen them less, communicated with them less and not confided in issues between me and my wife. I have gone up without her on occasion. She remains uncomfortable with them and I don't know if that can ever be resolved.
I agree that I shouldn't visit them alone, or pressure her to go. It's a long drive and that bothers her as well. And, in 20 years, I've traveled up there much more than they have come down here. So, that's been an issue also. I went up there alone in December when my oldest daughter received her PhD, and it was the same weekend as my wife had to study for her final in class she was taking as I recall. Won't anymore until and unless she is comfortable.
We are both pretty unlovable to each other right now. I am still committed and always working on things, though she sees little change. One step forward, two steps backwards it seems. I listen daily and I think she does too, but she is spent.
I have communicated, even talked with Dr H a couple of times.
To some on the forum I come across as hopeless and arrogant. Admittedly, I am slow but getting it. Desperately want to save the marriage.
I have accountability notebook, printed off my plan. My plan can always use honing though. I really don't know what I can do to meet her EN's now. Focusing on LB's still. Many doors have been closed.
Will follow DidntQuit's and your advice and use the notebook.
Advice from you pros (successful folks) is always appreciated.
Thanks for not giving up on me,
Remark
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Remark, when you spoke to Dr. Harley on the radio, he told you to stop trying to use the Marriage Builders program to straighten your wife out. So, when we tell you things, stop bringing your wife into it. Stop taking the discussion to: We are both pretty unlovable to each other right now and I listen daily and I think she does too, but she is spent. We know that your wife isn't meeting your emotional needs right now, or you wouldn't be posting, so that doesn't need to be mentioned. You need to deal with your own areas where improvement is needed as a separate issue. She is not going to come on board until and unless you hit the target: build the habits to make enough massive love bank deposits that you exceed the romantic love threshold. The fact that she's unloveable doesn't make you any better - keep it separate. Did you listen to today's radio show? What disrespectful judgments did you make today? What independent behavior did you engage in today? What did you do to make love bank deposits today?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Remark, when you spoke to Dr. Harley on the radio, he told you to stop trying to use the Marriage Builders program to straighten your wife out. So, when we tell you things, stop bringing your wife into it. Stop taking the discussion to: We are both pretty unlovable to each other right now and I listen daily and I think she does too, but she is spent. We know that your wife isn't meeting your emotional needs right now, or you wouldn't be posting, so that doesn't need to be mentioned. You need to deal with your own areas where improvement is needed as a separate issue. She is not going to come on board until and unless you hit the target: build the habits to make enough massive love bank deposits that you exceed the romantic love threshold. The fact that she's unloveable doesn't make you any better - keep it separate. Did you listen to today's radio show? What disrespectful judgments did you make today? What independent behavior did you engage in today? What did you do to make love bank deposits today? Yes, heard today's show. Didn't interact much with her as we had a music recital of our son that she met us at. No DJ's. No IB. I can't think of an opportunity for deposit. Just got home a little while ago. She's walking the dog. Thanks, Remark
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I can't think of an opportunity for deposit. Did you talk to her at all today? Call/text/IM/email her from work? Tell her anything you did today? Ask her about what she did today? Conversation is a top emotional need for most women. She will fall in love with you if you become her conversation partner. When is the last time you re-read the friends and enemies of good conversation? You need to practice these every day.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Just got home a little while ago. She's walking the dog. Go with her!
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I can't think of an opportunity for deposit. Did you talk to her at all today? Call/text/IM/email her from work? Tell her anything you did today? Ask her about what she did today? Conversation is a top emotional need for most women. She will fall in love with you if you become her conversation partner. When is the last time you re-read the friends and enemies of good conversation? You need to practice these every day. I texted a couple of things. But she doesn't like phone calls or checking in. I used to call a couple of times everyday but that isn't a 'love language' of hers. It was maybe a month or two ago I re-read enemies of conversation. I'll re-read again. Thanks, Remark
Last edited by Remark; 04/27/15 10:13 PM.
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I texted a couple of things. But she doesn't like phone calls or checking in. I used to call a couple of times everyday but that isn't a 'love language' of hers. Text her a couple times each day. Sometimes ask her a question ("How are you feeling?" is a good one, as is "How is it going?" or "What are you doing?") Sometimes, tell her what you are doing. Don't play mix and match with "love languages" or any other program. They don't have a plan for fixing a marriage. A person in withdrawal will rate their intimate emotional needs low, because by definition, withdrawal means "I don't want you to meet my emotional needs." Conversation is important in any romantic relationship. Engage in it with her. Get good at it. It was maybe a month or two ago I re-read enemies of conversation. I'll re-read again. Ay ay ay. This is crucially important. Re-read these DAILY. Practice them DAILY. Your goal is fifteen hours of the friends of good conversation per week.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Remark, when you spoke to Dr. Harley on the radio, he told you to stop trying to use the Marriage Builders program to straighten your wife out. So, when we tell you things, stop bringing your wife into it. Stop taking the discussion to: We are both pretty unlovable to each other right now and I listen daily and I think she does too, but she is spent. We know that your wife isn't meeting your emotional needs right now, or you wouldn't be posting, so that doesn't need to be mentioned. You need to deal with your own areas where improvement is needed as a separate issue. She is not going to come on board until and unless you hit the target: build the habits to make enough massive love bank deposits that you exceed the romantic love threshold. The fact that she's unloveable doesn't make you any better - keep it separate. Did you listen to today's radio show? What disrespectful judgments did you make today? What independent behavior did you engage in today? What did you do to make love bank deposits today? Yes, heard today's show. Didn't interact much with her as we had a music recital of our son that she met us at. No DJ's. No IB. I can't think of an opportunity for deposit. Just got home a little while ago. She's walking the dog. Thanks, Remark Markos, OK, I'll not bring her into it. Got it. Remark
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I can't think of an opportunity for deposit. Did you talk to her at all today? Call/text/IM/email her from work? Tell her anything you did today? Ask her about what she did today? Conversation is a top emotional need for most women. She will fall in love with you if you become her conversation partner. When is the last time you re-read the friends and enemies of good conversation? You need to practice these every day. I texted a couple of things. But she doesn't like phone calls or checking in. I used to call a couple of times everyday but that isn't a 'love language' of hers. It was maybe a month or two ago I re-read enemies of conversation. I'll re-read again. Thanks, Remark
Thanks, Remark
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I re-read them today and incorporated the bullet points into my daily plan notebook.
Thanks, Remark Great! Did you listen to today's radio show? What disrespectful judgments did you make today? What independent behavior did you engage in today? What did you do to make love bank deposits today? What did you talk to her about today? Did you go join her while she was walking the dog last night?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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http://biblehub.com/1_peter/3-7.htmThat couldn't be more clear. Treat your wife as you should, or God won't hear your prayers. There's no point going to church when she's reluctant about you going to church and not happy with your relationship. God won't listen to you there, anyway. This is completely clear, too: http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-23.htmhttp://biblehub.com/matthew/5-24.htmGod doesn't want your gift of church attendance - he wants you to make a good marriage! He wants you to keep the covenant you made to make this woman happy! I read all those verses, many translations. I agree. Thank you, Markos
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I have not listened yet today, as I forgot my cell phone when I went to work today.
Will listen to it shortly.
No, I didn't walk the dog with her.
More later,
Thanks,
Remark
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I have not listened yet today, as I forgot my cell phone when I went to work today. You can't afford to miss class if you want to learn how to dig out of this hole.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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No, I didn't walk the dog with her. You missed a great opportunity! If she goes tonight, go with her! Where is she right now? Are you with her? Go be with her!
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I re-read them today and incorporated the bullet points into my daily plan notebook.
Thanks, Remark Great! Did you listen to today's radio show? Yes, I did listen to today's show. I listened it via my PC and recognized it. Listened to it around noon, thinking I was listening to yesterday's. Then, started listening again around 2. and it was the same show. So, I have listened now to it twice. Back in January, and then again earlier today. I just put all of this together as the phone app shows the date of the show as I'm listening to it a third time.What disrespectful judgments did you make today? NoWhat independent behavior did you engage in today? No.What did you do to make love bank deposits today? No. In fact, an accidental withdrawal. Having forgotten my phone, I e-mailed her reminding her of a counseling appt we have for our son tomorrow night. It started out
Tommorrow,
we have an appt for Jake at 6:00.....
Since 'Tomorrow' was on a separate line she thought it was a salutation and didn't notice it. She ran straight from work to the counseling office, where she called home finding our son and I here. She was very frustrated, understandably. Net/net, a withdrawal for me. What did you talk to her about today? So far, just the above.Did you go join her while she was walking the dog last night? No, I was cleaning the kitchen when she left. I should have postponed cleaning the kitchen, and walked the dog with her.
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On it. She is inside now. But until a few minutes ago, she was outside trimming some plants. I asked if I could assist, and she said 'No, I don't have a plan (on what she was doing.)
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