Dear Friend, these are all renter relationships and truly "textbook" by dr. Harley's standards

I agree Jedi! Spot on!

Once they exchange their wedding rings, it will be still a "renter relationship"... but then it becomes "socially acceptable" to expose betrayal and go PLAN B.

I disagree...I think in most cases it is NOT socially acceptable to expose.
I received no support from exposing to my wifes family.

people like to keep secrets in the closet, even if they are evil secrets.

It is still a strategic move to kill the affair though

Very good point Jedi!

no, I did not see the importance of marriage when I first opened this thread on the forum. I got IT rather quickly with the help of you all!

But what is marriage worth as it grows out of betrayal in an uncommitted relationship? Nothing!!!

I do not think it's a good idea to dismiss THE BUYERS "in the Dating and Relationship" section with arguments as "the rules of exposure and plan B do not apply, as you are not married".
They DO!

Expose cheaters! Even in uncommitted relationships!
If we don't, they will only bring more visitors to the Married-section...

I agree. A good place to check and see if someone is a cheater is www.cheaterville.com

Exposure is good for the betrayed spouse.

Whether it creates support or not. Desdain or not.

Speaking the truth sets the person free.

Free from being an accomplice in secrets/lies/making the infidelity even more 'sexy' than it otherwise is.

Exposure is a powerful tool to healing. No matter the results.

How's it going gerald?

Hi Jedi,

I did not want to come here anymore because of reasons that got censored aswell. Good thing the Dr. made a statement about same-sexmarriages.

Been back from Thailand for 2.5 months now, scored a new contract within' 2 days of returning home. Will make me enough money to spend the next 3 winters abroad.

My values have changed in Thailand I notice.
I am much more open & focussed on emotion & the sense of community than ever before in my life. I am learning Thai. Living with a Thai family and an adorable 1-year old on a daily basis is truely a mindblowing experience for a Westener: It feels absolutely amazing to live in the middle of nature and to feel part of a community that functions on the principle of an ant-hill. No, I am not dating Thai ladies as the cultural barrier is way too high.

When I was back home shortly in winter, I met a girl who was my lover & viceversa.
Dating her went incredibly smooth & without any effort at all� as if I were 18 again.
I guess I finally met that 1 out of 30. It felt as if all my previous dates were a hassle�

She met my emotional need for honesty & openess big time (and viceversa). I could meet her need for admiration in a flick of a switch and I could actually see her enjoying it.
Unfortunatlely she is 15 years younger and I had the feeling our worlds are too far apart. I returned to Thailand with the memory of how it feels to have great chemistry with someone.

In Thailand I heared my cheating ex dumped her POS after 1,8 years! I both send them a mail to congratulate them ^^ And for the very first time the POS reacted! I enjoyed reading his hate-mail sipping on a cocktail from my hammock in paradise. In Thailand they have a saying: "You are very lucky if you can sit back & watch karma work it's way."

Back home, I agreed to meet my ex to bury the hatchet immediatly. It was a heartwrecking experience but needed nevertheless: The no-contact thing was an incredible source of negative energy & wrecking our relationships with friends in common. I did not get an apology� but I got some closure as the girl I once loved, obviously does not exist anymore.

I found it very very hard to find dates in may: dating sites did not get results although I put my work in from within Thailand, meeting & asking women out thru facebook was a little bit more succesful: although I got a lot turndowns. I felt depressed & frustrated since I was investing a lot of time, but once summer started... I got overwelmed by the sheer number of woman who would contact me! Dates from last year or people I've met recently, they all wanted to hang out.

I am dating mostly in the 22-26 range as I hardly seem to meet any single women in the 27+ range. When I do it's even harder to get them on a date. I find myself in interviews rather than dates� However, I am amazed by the dating skills of many of these young girls compared to the age range I SHOULD be dating. It seems I missed out on an important part of my 20ts because I am learning date by date. I have had so many fantastic dates since I got back home, I am literaly glowing with love. I know the Dr. said you can have great chemistry with someone, but I find you can be quite irresistable to anyone if you are in love with life itself.

It's a bit confronting to change back from an emotionaly open culture to an emotionaly closed one and I am still adapting and learning how to incorporate both states of mind succesfuly in my life. Someone in the beginning of the topic said I would know when the sky has finally cleared� Well I think its happening right now!

:-)

That's funny you sent them an emails of congratulation on the breakup.

My dad joked with me that I should send OM a postcard every year thanking him for taking ww off my hands

Maybe you should make a mental postcard & send it Jedi...
If I remember correctly, the OM had a hefty criminal record ;-)

I thought long enough before sending the card: I did not want to cause any more drama than there already was but I did not want this "event" to be swept under the carpet either.
I wanted to remind them I did not forgive them, but I have forgiven myself.

It was my moment to close that chapter of my life & I took it.
My ex responed with: "Let's meet, so we can talk"... sportsmanlike.
We did, I buried the hatchet, the skies are clear... I am glad I took the opportunity.

The cherry on the cake was his response:
He did not learn anything: blaming me for the exposure I caused on the other side of this planet... meh. SOM NAM NAA (Sour-Water-Face in Thai)
Still has to find his first job, living with mommy & daddy.

If waywards choose their OM based on the emotional needs their partner did not meet (enough)... I should be more than OK, lesson learned ;-)

10:26


I am in Thailand again after a summer of working & dating.
If have met plenty of new people this summer, made some new friends & I had more dating options I could manage back home� without using dating sites.

I had a single Canadian friend (my age) over for a week and he told me how easy it is to date 30+ women in North-America, his friends & relatives all know lots of single 30+ woman and he get's introduced all the time.
Nothing at all like my country across the splash it seems� I still hardly meet any and if I do they are not keen on dating AT ALL�

I've had some rare dates within my "age category" and I could not connect emotionaly with any of them.
It's amazing how many 30+ woman claim they are looking for "something serious", yet spell out textbook freeloaders agreements as if they were a viable basis for a future committed relationship:
A mother who barely made ends meet, swear she would never commit financialy ever again.
A bachelorette telling me what she was like while doing EXACTLY the opposite.
A lab assistent who was terrified if I showed care and affection, yet wanted to go exclusive with me.
Disrespectful judgement, needy & controlling behaviour with all of them really.

The contrast with the 21+ range I dated is enormous.
They are plentiful, easy to ask out, open minded and they know how to make fun on a date besides having an interview. ;-) Although they are freeloaders too, they do at least represent themselves as renters.

The summer really started with a beautiful 22-year old filmstudent on a rebound from betrayel of her highschool sweetheart. She lost her entire circle of friends in the process. She knew I experienced something similar and after an date & a night of dancing at the city festival, she kissed me and asked me to be her "friends with benefits" at least for the summer. She considers me as an "oldtime" friend with whome "love-issues after sex" would just be impossible because of the 15 year age difference.

We've been going out all summer and had lots of fun actually� I thought at first one of us would get bored very quickly or that our conversations would come to a grinding halt after a couple of weeks, but we seem to have developed some strange dynamic that seems to work very well on a friendship level. We dropped the SF after a couple of weeks, although we sleep & spoon together on occassions we are not dating others. We both date other people and share our experiences on cozy sofa sessions. She is excellent in communicating what her emotional needs are and makes insightful comments on how her dates seem to completely miss or ignore them. It's interesting how such a young beautiful, intelligent girl struggles with finding a suitable partner too�

Since then I am dating the most beautiful & intelligent young ladies I've ever met in my life. Young guys are actually asking me advice on"how I get these girls to like me!" and that got me thinking.
At the beginning I thought these young girls might see me as some old homosexual bloke, who is safe is to approach because I am not interesting to them sexually or romanticly, but that's not the case:
I seem to be abe to connect with them emotionally within a very short timespan� something I miss in every 30+ date & they do too in their age category especially (emotionally unavailable & controlling 20+ something guys anyone?)

In autumn I met a 28-year old artist, who wanted to be a "friends with benefits" too� even when I said I already got one of those and I am looking for something serious. I tried to date her exclusively, but she has issues committing as she had an abusive childhood and craves for toxic love. She's affraid of leaving and hurting me when she eventually meets a predator. She made me aware of the "childhood attachment theory" of prof. John Bowlby and the relationship problems that arise later in adult relationships because of that. It seems to fit the behaviour I encountered in a lot of my 30+ dates and why I seem to get along perfectly with a lot of 20 somethings:

I have been "attached securly" in childhood as a lot of the single 20+ women are, while the single 30+ are NOT in most cases, which explains the freeloading, needy & controlling behaviour I encounter while dating within my age category.
Should be a new chapter in FRB imho.

Nice to hear from you.
Glad you are doing well.
But ask yourself. ..do you think a serious woman would date a man who has a couple " Friends with benefits" on the side?

Women do exactly the same thing, Jedi!
It takes two to tango and this dating world after 30 is more complex than it seems...

I have met serious women from all ages/places, who had a friend with benefits and are in serious committed relationships now, some married. They all stopped the side-dish immediatly as soon as they met their current partner.

Same for women who have "a best gay friend" to meet their emotional needs... Who am I to judge?

Would I exlude these women? Not at all but I most probably would never know, would I? Women hide these thing better than men do anyway. ;-)

The only thing I can say for sure is that I stopped "dating" my friend with benefits as soon as I date someone else and vice versa.

I expect the same from a potential partner... or no go.

Back in Europe after 5 months of South East Asia again�
I read my diary of a year ago and it looks like I am feeling a lot better now.
I fell into a pit when I came back last year and felt lonely for a month before the summer really started.

Not so this year� I've been back for 5 days and I can hardly keep up with requests for dates!
Seems like a lot of women missed me or left their boyfriend this winter�
It's going to be a busy for sure.

I've dated Western expats in Asia too and within my age category! Finally!!!
I noticed that women from UK/USA/AUS are a lot more emotionaly reserved than European women.
They are not used to complete openess either. Although they like that a lot, they have a hard time to reciprocate� They made sexual propositions to compensate, which I took in two cases.

These UK/USA/AUS women were actively searching for a husband, which is a breath of fresh air compared to European standards. Unfortunately, none off them wanted children because they felt they were already too old (38-43). So that was a bit of a reality check�

If I want children I have to look for single women age 33-37 which are really hard to find imo.
I've dated exactly one Swedish woman in that category and she did not want children either� she had 3 dogs instead and insisted they would sleep in the marital bed too.
I am not sharing the bed with dogs (or babies for that matter). She was very controlling and not open to negotiation so she was a big no-no.

I've dated an American recently divorced army wife, who was married for 16 years!!!
I took her to a friends beachwedding in Thailand on the first date and she absolutely loved it.
We had a great time and I made her feel as she was half her age again.

I've noticed that there is not really much difference in dating a 28 year old or a 43 year old when it comes to meeting emotional needs. So I am thinking to throw the +/- 5 year age difference out of the window�

What do you think? Why is the 5 year difference so important?

Dr. Harley would encourage you to date someone your age.
He addressed this on a Radio Show when I asked him this very question.
Someone may be able to post the link to the show so you can hear it.

Gerald,

I encourage you to read the book Confessions by Saint Augustine.

Hi Jedi,

I am curious about the radioshow but will not read the book: it's 13 books and written in Latin in the 5th century. :-)

Every woman that met me in Thailand and have seen the interactions between me and the 2 year old child of my landlords said I should have children...

So did my grandmother on her deadbed.

You do realise that I will spend the rest of my life without children following the doctor's advice?

Are you suggesting I should become a monk and study Catholic scripture? :-)

Is it this one?
Radio Clip on Jediknight's Call
Segment #2
Segment #3

Women who are serious about finding a marriage partner will not generally be the ones abroad. It makes no sense to deal with transient lifestyles and immigration hurdles that can last years.

At 22, I traveled the world, when I returned, I looked for a husband. It wouldn't cross most marriage-minded women to look abroad, particularly as some view the expat scene as a meat market.

No im not suggesting that you become a monk.
But you and Augustine have a little in common.
You can get a modern translation of Confessions and read the first couple books/ chapters.