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Originally Posted by kaycstamper
You seem to imply you need to be married to be whole, as in each bringing half to the marriage...if that's true, I'm only a half now that my husband passed away, a thought that I do find offensive.
But I didn't say any such thing. If you find that thought offensive that's fair enough, but I didn't say that, and I didn't imply it.

I'm not going to let you mischaracterise what I said, without rebuttal.


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
I heared Dr Harley speak just the other day in favour of young marriage, and his reasons were that people can become too "whole" as they get older. This is detrimental to marriage.

He said that 20 year-olds find it much easier to grow together with their partner and to adapt and create the single entity that a married couple needs to become. Her said that by the age of 30, people have found how they want to live, and they find it very hard to make the adaptations necessary to taking into account someone else's perspective in all things, and hard to give up IB, annoying habits and fixed thinking.

He cites the fact that he was 21 and Joyce 19 when they married. Neither of them were used to independent life, or had developed hobbies, attitudes and lifestyles that were "set". They found it easy to integrate with each other; there was nothing to change. It was all there to be created.

His thinking on marriage goes very much against the 'be yourself", "love yourself" movement that encourages people to walk away from marriage and kids, rather than fix the problems. The "be yourself" attitude is one of the reasons that counselling is so destructive to marriage; it encourages people to seek their own happiness, outside the marriage if that's where logic leads them, instead of listening to their spouse's complaints and changing their behaviour.
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The original poster did not have a spouse. She should have a certain renters attitude in which she puts herself first and I think that's all that was being recommended.

Additionally I think women are often ecouraged by Dr H to be prepared to walk away. Their dates should be pursuing them and their husbands have to be leading the marriage or it will be no good for them. Dr H often counsels women not to knock themselves out on a relationship which isn't working - unless the man is doing most of the work.

I have heard him say too, that while people should marry young - women do more than OK on their own. He said he is baffled by the number of women who stay in poor relationships when figures show single women who stay single are quite content. Men, not so much.

Though I do think this advice is geared at older women who do not want blended families.. more than this type of young poster.

Personally I am one of those people who 'need' someone. I think most of us do. It's a wonderful goal which will improve life immeasurably if it works out according to MB standards - but it can become co-dependent if the relationship is poor. So a certain willingness to walk away from a poor relationship, especially when it is just dating, is important.

kc's attitude of sometimes you are better off alone is not anti-MB, imo.



Last edited by indiegirl; 06/07/15 03:38 PM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by indiegirl
[

The original poster did not have a spouse. She should have a certain renters attitude in which she puts herself first and I think that's all that was being recommended.

Indiegirl, with all due respect, you are confusing the issues. The renters attitude is intended for DATING. That is not what Kay recommended. Kay is recommending that she learn to be alone, which is very, very different.

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Additionally I think women are often ecouraged by Dr H to be prepared to walk away. Their dates should be pursuing them and their husbands have to be leading the marriage or it will be no good for them. Dr H often counsels women not to knock themselves out on a relationship which isn't working - unless the man is doing most of the work.

Right, but that is a different issue entirely.

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Personally I am one of those people who 'need' someone. I think most of us do. It's a wonderful goal which will improve life immeasurably if it works out according to MB standards - but it can become co-dependent if the relationship is poor. So a certain willingness to walk away from a poor relationship, especially when it is just dating, is important.

Keep in mind that co-dependency is the GOAL, not something to be avoided. Dr Harley and Joyce are co-dependent; my husband and I are co-dependent. That is the definition of a healthy, well balanced marriage. We CREATE co-dependent relationships here.

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kc's attitude of sometimes you are better off alone is not anti-MB, imo.

But, the advice she gave is that everyone should learn to be alone, which is NOT in line with MB concepts to a single woman. Dr Harley doesn't recommend that a woman needs to learn to be alone and that she doesn't need anybody; that she needs to learn to be happy alone. This is a single young woman. There is no reason for her to learn to be happy alone. Certainly she shouldn't put up with bad boyfriends, but that only means she moves onto new candidates. [date 30 guys!]


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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But she isn't recommending that anyone should learn to be alone. Just because she is she isn't saying everyone should - just that it's taught her there's no need for needinesss. She is only saying that it is better than being in the wrong relationship.

I can't speak for others though.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by indiegirl
But she isn't recommending that anyone should learn to be alone. Just because she is she isn't saying everyone should - just that it's taught her there's no need for needinesss. She is only saying that it is better than being in the wrong relationship.

I disagree completely with your interpretation. No one disagrees that this is the wrong relationship, but the suggestion that it is good for a single, childless woman to learn to live alone is not something that MB advocates.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Everyone should be open to a partnership.

No one should settle for just any partner.

One can love others and yet one can be 'alone' and live a good life if a decent partner isn't saying 'Ta da!" and jumping in front of you today.

It is not anti MB to say.....I can create magic in my life even when single and not actively looking for love. It isn't anti MB to say you don't 'need' another person during that time without one.

A relationship creates a Love Bank which craves the love partner and need can be beautiful from there.








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Originally Posted by reading
EIt is not anti MB to say.....I can create magic in my life even when single and not actively looking for love. It isn't anti MB to say you don't 'need' another person during that time without one.

I agree. But it's not a MB view that one needs to learn to live alone in order to be whole.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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