I am not sure where to start really. My husband and I have been married for 11 years with two wonderful little boys (ages 5 and 2.5). We went through a lot together to have them (numerous IVF's and miscarriages). We finally have the family we want but our marriage is not what it should be.

The stress that I feel over us has gotten so bad that I have gotten to the point where I yell and say things I shouldn't because I feel so desperate at times.

Just so you know I have been reading a lot on the site over the past few weeks and have learned all about the basic concepts. I understand that I should not yell no matter how bad he hurts me. I have also read His Needs Her Needs a little over a year ago and he was willing to complete the forms with me but did not actually read the book.

Now that I have read all through this site I see why the book was not that helpful to us at the time. There are so many other things that need to change before we can really start meeting each other's needs.

I have asked my husband to go through the program with me and he said he would after our last huge fall out, but that was over a week ago and nothing has happened. He was very sweet over Mother's Day and we had a great weekend, but the problems are already starting to show themselves again. Sometimes I think he just says "ok I will do whatever it takes" just to get me "off his back". He is so busy and he says "when have we had time?" But to me, if it was important enough we could have made a time.

There are some really deep issues going on and sometimes I am skeptical if anything could help them, even this program. When I read through it I can see that it is everything we are NOT doing, and I know it would help but.....

I am not sure what I am even wanting by writing this. How do you get going, how do you get started with someone who doesn't seem to realize how serious the problems are or who doesn't seem that interested in having a good marriage? I know he cares about me, I just don't think marriage is a priority for him. In fact, if he is willing to sit down with me, it feels as though it is only to get me to quit complaining (not because he loves me and wants a great marriage). Any insight, or just support would be great.

Enroll in the Marriage Builders online program since he already agreed to it.

He did not agree to enrolling in anything.... I printed out all the basic concepts and some of the additional articles off the site and he agreed to sitting down with me and going over them. Since, we have not "found time" to do this yet. I just walked the papers over to him (we work at the same school) and asked him to please read them word for word, and to please start thinking about them.

I am hoping that he can read them today and then when we do have the opportunity to talk he will have had time for some of it to soak in. I am pretty sure that he will have a huge problem with the "policy of joint agreement", which I believe would be the biggest help to our problems. To be honest, I was skeptical about it at first too, but the more I think about it the more I know we need it.

I guess I am wanting to know how to help encourage him to get on board. What to do when he thinks the ideas are crazy?!

What you are facing is extremely serious. The main reason women leave men is neglect, and neglect is what is going on in your marriage. Your husband needs to realize the seriousness of this situation. I don't know that simple encouragement is going to do that.

You need to start by insisting on his time. It is going to that a lot of time. For couples who have fallen out of love, it takes a minimum of 20 hour a week. If either of you is unwilling to invest that kind of time into your marriage, then you should start planning for a separation.

JBK, how have you presented the program to him? What would be his benefit? Because if you are telling him the goal is to change him, that wouldn't be very attractive. How would he benefit from it?

We do have serious problems that need to be addressed but I would not say that we are not in love anymore. We do still love each other and have a wonderful time together, when things are going well. But like I tell him, I know that no matter how good something is, in a matter of days we will be back to horrible fighting in just a matter of days. The problem is that the negatives are adding up a lot faster than the positives at this point, and I want to stop it before we are "out of love" with each-other.

I do feel neglected, especially of quality time together, but I think he honestly believes that there just isn't time/ money / etc to be able to spend a lot of time together. I don't believe he is conciously trying to make us suffer. Once we are home together he is exhausted and sometimes I am too.

What is hurting me even more than not spending the time together is the fact that he constantly feels threatened in our marriage and the way he handles it is destroying me. I have never cheated on him, never acted flirtatious, do not have male friends.... All the things that I would think would make someone feel so "unsafe" in a marriage, but no matter what I did and I have tried it all. He always feels like I am eventually going to cheat on him. He has said so many horrible things about me because of these feelings and majority of our problems stem from this.

Any advice??

I totally understand what you are saying and that was basically the first thing he said "why so you can tell me everything that is wrong with me". But that is not at all what I am wanting. I want us to be better as a couple, both of us. I am willing to change things as well, it would not be just him. I would think he would be tired of the way our marriage is going as well. Who would want to live in constant battle with occasional good feelings in between?

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JBK, the reason he believes this is because your marriage is a low priority to him. He manages to find the time to go to work, after all. I agree he is not trying to make you suffer, but neglecting you causes your suffering. It is the #1 reason women leave men. You are on a downward spiral right now and this will have a snowball effect as you go forward. Your marriage won't last under these conditions.

Because of that, you really need to take a serious approach to the situation. I would most certainly not allow him to bully and abuse you. When he does that, leave the room immediately while telling him you won't tolerate it.


Can you be more specific? What does he say bothers him? How does he express it?

Please read this article and tell me what you think: When to Call It Quits - Part 1

He doesn't really express it at all. It comes out in sly remarks, dirty looks, etc. I tend to think our age difference is part of the problem. He is 44 and I am 31. He has never said that, I just often wonder, if we were the same age would he feel like this? It doesn't bother me at all, the age difference, in fact I always felt like we kind of meet in the middle (as far as maturity). But I can't change the fact that we are apart in age....

The other part that bothers him, that he brings up in a very mean manner is the fact that I had a past before him. (We were married only a year and a half after I graduated high school.) The thing is, he "had a past" before me as well. So how is he any better than me in that regard? He acts like I am some kind of slut, which couldn't be farther from the truth, and he knows it.

I'm not sure what the program says about bringing up the past (especially things that happened before marriage, before we even knew eachother, but I can't imagine that it is beneficial at all...)

Let me give you an example of something that hurt me yesterday....and this was after a wonderful weekend where I though we were making some progress.

We are both teachers at the same school, our hallways run perpendicular to each other. So we don't constantly see each-other but it is easy to if we need / want to. Before 6th period a coach that my husband coach's football with walked down my hall (which leads to another hall). He said hi as he walked by, but that was it. I was standing in the hall because it was passing period. Just a couple quick seconds later my husband came up to where our halls intersect and glared down the hall. Did not acknowledge me at all and then turned and walked away.

In my heart I knew it had something to do with that coach walking by, but I tried to convince myself otherwise. We had been so good, how could he be feeling this way already? I text him and asked why he looked at me like that down the hallway, I guess I was hoping there was some good explanation. He said I didn't look at you in anyway.... With a little more prodding he said he was looking for the coach. And acted like it was no big deal.

Later I asked about it again and he finally said I was seeing if he was going to you. I asked why would you see a random guy and automatically assume that he was coming to talk to me? But he basically refused to answer that question.Even once he saw that he was NOT talking to me, he still glared and walked away.

Everytime he tries to "catch me" doing something wrong, I never ever am, but that isn't good enough.

Sorry this is so long, there is so much to put down in words. I just want him to let me love him and he love me back without having to go through so much mental hell.

Thanks for your answer. He probably is a little insecure about you and that is ok. Many people are. What is not ok are his love busters. What is not ok is his bringing up the past and using it against you. It doesn't sound like you do anything to make him feel insecure, so I would assume this is just how he is.

I would keep this problem on the front burner until it is resolved, because your marriage is probably entering a free fall. When things get really bad, they get really bad FAST. But you can stop that. I would read the article I posted AND email Dr Harley and see if you can speak to him. [it is free] Dr Harley could even speak to him and help him understand.


The MOST important thing to your kids is your marriage. Their lives would be wrecked without it. It is the source of their security and well being. So he is not being a good dad if he places your marriage at such a low priority.

Here is the link to the radio show: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

Thank you again for the input. I had read the article earlier, but I just re-read it. The part that stands out to me is the "unconditional love", I do think that he feels my love should be there no matter what. And I want it to be there forever and do believe in unconditional love when referring to illness, financial troubles, those kind of things. But how can you honestly say you will love someone forever no matter how much pain and stress they cause you?

In fact, long before I ever read anything from Marriage Builders, he commented on how "his love doesn't waiver like mine does..." and made me feel guilty for the fact that my feelings towards him change depending on how I am treated. I never have stopped loving him, but there is definitely a sliding scale. Now after reading MB I know what we were basically explaining was the "love bank" in a nut shell.

I agree that he is insecure, that is who he is, at-least with me anyway. When I have said this to him he is very offended and feels like I am calling him names. What can I do to help the matter? I feel like I have tried everything, and nothing changes. The way he behaves because of these feelings are just wearing me down.

We need to improve on every aspect, but I feel that any progress will end as soon as he feels insecure again.

Another point to consider about the illusion of "unconditional love" is to ask yourself if you would still love him if you were divorced and married to another man? Or if he beat you? Molested your children? UL just doesn't work in marriages, as you can see. It leads to neglect and abuse.


It is very offensive to him to hear this so I wouldn't tell him you think he is insecure. I would ask him instead "what can I do to make you feel safe?" Ask if there is anything you are doing that makes him feel uneasy. And keep in mind, his insecurity DOES NOT ENTITLE HIM to bully you.


PLEASE write Dr Harley. He can get both you and your husband on the phone and get him on the right track. He is amazingly persuasive. And it does not cost you a PENNY. Nothing. They will even send you a free book. This is one way I got all my books for free over the years!

I get what you are saying about unconditional love and I agree with you. When we have used the term in the past I was always thinking of things that come up in life and sticking together through them. Our infertility being one of them. Many couples can fall apart through years of infertility, but we stuck by each other, like we should have. Just loving someone no matter how they treat you is not right or fair to either partner....

I agree to your approach about the insecurity and have been trying not to use that word to him. But I have many years of "undoing" my approach on that issue. I guess I haven't been too sensitive with the issue because I just don't see what I have done so wrong as a wife to have a husband who is constantly implying that I am going to eventually cheat.... Especially when I am a very moral person who prides themselves on being upfront and honest. I would never cheat. For many reasons, I even told him not long after we married that I would leave long before I ever cheated. And he was SO offended by me saying this, I thought I was letting him know exactly how I felt, and I still feel this way today.

As far as trying to talk to the DR... How do you go about doing that? Also, considering there are such issues on many different levels, what exactly would I ask him for help with? One more thing about this, I think my husband would be very resentful if I tried to contact him, even if I think I am trying to help us. In fact, I honestly feel guilty even talking on here to y'all. He knows I have been reading about the program, but I just joined the forum today, to get some neutral perspective. I am such an honest person that I feel like I am somehow lying just coming on here and asking for advice.

I see the email link above, is that the address to try to speak with him?

Yes. Copy your main posts from this thread and email the radio show. Give them your phone #. You can remain anonymous and don't have to go on the show.

This is an example of health and safety where you need help. You are seeking valid, positive help for your concerns and you should move forward.

Would you rather your husband lived in fear or losing you or have a chance to keep you? His best efforts are misguided and unsustainable.

Is the original post enough to show the issues at hand. To me the original post just got the conversation going, but did not really explain the issues. What would be more likely for me to get a response, copying the first post or attempting to paraphrase our problems?

Even if it is annonymous I would still need to tell him that I emailed and what the advice was, or we wouldn't really be able to implement it, right???

Ok, I sent a lengthy letter to Dr H. Explaining the problems the best I could in a letter. How does the process work? I am assuming he can't respond to everyone. Does his team email back or what happens next? Thanks again for everything.

Actually, you've explained the situation so well. Did you include your phone#?

If your husband finds out, let him know that you haven't been able to solve together the problems in your marriage and you believe that Dr. Harley can help you learn to create a great marriage where you both feel loved and cared for and he feels safe & protected from outside threats.