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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by JBKT16
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
No, you didn't tell him what it will take. You just told him about your fiddle around the edges plan. You don't even buy this program, so I don't believe you tried to sell him something you don't even want or accept.

Did you take my suggestion and speak to Dr Harley? Maybe Dr Harley can convince your husband?

He would be furious if I asked him to speak to Dr Harley. I am afraid if I did that he would not be willing to participate in the program at all, and all hope would be lost.

Did you have your spouse speak with him? Was he upset about it at first?

Like I said, you always have an excuse.

Was not trying to make excuses. Just wanted to hear some personal experiences of how people have overcome their spouse not wanting to do it. But no one will share that.

I'm sorry you are ready to give up....isn't their a learning curve for everyone? I can't imagine everyone comes here and instantly implements the program perfectly.

Could you give me advice on how to handle what happened last night when I was hoping for some family time, and he had a million other things to do, and then I end up coming across as the nagging wife?

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by JBKT16
He would be furious if I asked him to speak to Dr Harley.

SO WHAT? Are you going to melt or something? Are you a little girl or a grown woman?

Point taken.

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Originally Posted by JBKT16
[

Was not trying to make excuses. Just wanted to hear some personal experiences of how people have overcome their spouse not wanting to do it. But no one will share that.

Show me WHERE you have ever asked me that???

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I'm sorry you are ready to give up....isn't their a learning curve for everyone? I can't imagine everyone comes here and instantly implements the program perfectly.

Deflecting and making excuses is not "learning."

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Could you give me advice on how to handle what happened last night when I was hoping for some family time, and he had a million other things to do, and then I end up coming across as the nagging wife?

Hope is not a plan. But we have already told you that. We have told you to SCHEDULE your dates. Was this a SCHEDULED DATE?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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oh, and it is NOT TRUE that we have not told you how to get him on board. I posted this to you on Sunday. YOU STILL HAVE NOT FOLLOWED THE ADVICE!

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by JBKT16
Thank you again for the input. I had read the article earlier, but I just re-read it. The part that stands out to me is the "unconditional love", I do think that he feels my love should be there no matter what. And I want it to be there forever and do believe in unconditional love when referring to illness, financial troubles, those kind of things. But how can you honestly say you will love someone forever no matter how much pain and stress they cause you?

Another point to consider about the illusion of "unconditional love" is to ask yourself if you would still love him if you were divorced and married to another man? Or if he beat you? Molested your children? UL just doesn't work in marriages, as you can see. It leads to neglect and abuse.

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I agree that he is insecure, that is who he is, at-least with me anyway. When I have said this to him he is very offended and feels like I am calling him names. What can I do to help the matter? I feel like I have tried everything, and nothing changes. The way he behaves because of these feelings are just wearing me down.

It is very offensive to him to hear this so I wouldn't tell him you think he is insecure. I would ask him instead "what can I do to make you feel safe?" Ask if there is anything you are doing that makes him feel uneasy. And keep in mind, his insecurity DOES NOT ENTITLE HIM to bully you.

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We need to improve on every aspect, but I feel that any progress will end as soon as he feels insecure again.

PLEASE write Dr Harley. He can get both you and your husband on the phone and get him on the right track. He is amazingly persuasive. And it does not cost you a PENNY. Nothing. They will even send you a free book. This is one way I got all my books for free over the years! smile


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by JBKT16
[

Was not trying to make excuses. Just wanted to hear some personal experiences of how people have overcome their spouse not wanting to do it. But no one will share that.

Show me WHERE you have ever asked me that???

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I'm sorry you are ready to give up....isn't their a learning curve for everyone? I can't imagine everyone comes here and instantly implements the program perfectly.

Deflecting and making excuses is not "learning."

Quote
Could you give me advice on how to handle what happened last night when I was hoping for some family time, and he had a million other things to do, and then I end up coming across as the nagging wife?

Hope is not a plan. But we have already told you that. We have told you to SCHEDULE your dates. Was this a SCHEDULED DATE?

I asked earlier to share how you got your spouses on board. Everyone gets their spouse on board by having them talk to Dr H?

You're right, making excuses is not learning. You are also right that hope is not a plan. We had committed to sitting down Sunday night and making a plan for the week. We both thought this was a great idea. But then we were throwing up. Obviously we didn't purposely get sick just to avoid following through, but once again we didn't.

I thought since we didn't do it Sunday, by default we would try to Monday, but he doesn't think like that. Making anything happen will definitely depend on me.

So if something is not planned out, what are the expectations? If we planned a date one night, but the next night is open. Do I expect him to be tuned out all night? If nothing is "planned" does it let him off the hook for spending time with us? I am asking for suggestions here, if you are still willing to give them.

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Originally Posted by JBKT16
[

I asked earlier to share how you got your spouses on board. Everyone gets their spouse on board by having them talk to Dr H?

And I have told you how to get him on board. You have endless excuses why you can't do that.

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So if something is not planned out, what are the expectations? If we planned a date one night, but the next night is open. Do I expect him to be tuned out all night? If nothing is "planned" does it let him off the hook for spending time with us? I am asking for suggestions here, if you are still willing to give them.

Plan out your week and that way you are not disappointed.

However, I don't understand what you are doing since you have told us that 4 4 hour dates are impossible. What would be the point of this exercise if the goal is impossible?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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My last suggestion is to read the thread again [and your old one] and decide if YOU are serious. Because I don't see a serious person here. I see a person who wants magic but is not willing to take any of the steps that would affect change. All of the answers are on this thread if you decide to take them. Good luck....


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by JBKT16
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
No, you didn't tell him what it will take. You just told him about your fiddle around the edges plan. You don't even buy this program, so I don't believe you tried to sell him something you don't even want or accept.

Did you take my suggestion and speak to Dr Harley? Maybe Dr Harley can convince your husband?

He would be furious if I asked him to speak to Dr Harley. I am afraid if I did that he would not be willing to participate in the program at all, and all hope would be lost.


Not at all. Anger or dismissal is a temporary thing, it's nothing. Conflict avoidance however is infinite. It's not all hope is lost if you don't get immediate agreement it's all hope is lost if nothing changes. You have nothing to lose.

The main problem here is you are too timid. It's common for men to think their wives are being overly dramatic - but only if she is not making a huge deal.

Not angrily, but cheerfully and persistently.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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You know, if you haven't read "buyers, renters, and freeloaders," you really should.


You need to make a plan. What you will do, how you will respond to his disrespect. You shouldn't tolerate someone treating you so disrespectfully. As long as you are willing to put up with it, it will continue. You seem to have mistaken what marriage builders is. It is not about staying together no matter what. It is about creating a great marriage.

If that is not your goal, this is not the best place for you.

If it is your goal, you need to start taking action.

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We went through this. Same age as you, and our kids are same age.

In late 2011, we had a two year old, and I was pregnant. Replace football/independent life with video games.

I told him I would make plans to SEPARATE unless he was willing to make us a priority. And I was dead serious.

That, JBKT, is rock bottom. And it was transforming, as we made marriage #1. We even relocated and changed careers. When your marriage is #1, nothing else matters as much. I make $15/hour BELOW my "market value" - don't care. Hubby passes promotions - don't care. We are happy!

I was serious. Are you? Because he knows you aren't that serious.

Last edited by alis; 05/19/15 11:07 AM.
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Originally Posted by alis
We went through this. Same age as you, and our kids are same age.

In late 2011, we had a two year old, and I was pregnant. Replace football/independent life with video games.

I told him I would make plans to SEPARATE unless he was willing to make us a priority. And I was dead serious.

That, JBKT, is rock bottom. And it was transforming, as we made marriage #1. We even relocated and changed careers. When your marriage is #1, nothing else matters as much. I make $15/hour BELOW my "market value" - don't care. Hubby passes promotions - don't care. We are happy!

I was serious. Are you? Because he knows you aren't that serious.

Thank you, I honestly don't want it to come to this, but I know it could. I have a couple times, when things got really bad, told him I was going to leave. He threatened to take the kids from me, says his family has more money and would hire better lawyers....

I think he also knows that there is no way financially for either of us to be able to be on our own. He also knows I don't want that for a lot of reasons. I think that is part of why he doesn't take my complaints seriously.

Why would he need a real threat of me leaving before he got serious....wouldn't you want it never to get to that point? I was very close once, to the point where I drove to his parents house and told them everything that had been going on. They came over and talked to him and helped us talk. I was desperate and didn't know what to do other than leave.

Did the thought of you leaving instantly get him on board? Thanks for sharing your story.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
My last suggestion is to read the thread again [and your old one] and decide if YOU are serious. Because I don't see a serious person here. I see a person who wants magic but is not willing to take any of the steps that would affect change. All of the answers are on this thread if you decide to take them. Good luck....

I am serious, and I have read the thread back a couple of times now. I see that I was not serious during the first thread, honestly I didn't even know about the program during the first thread. I was just looking for feedback.

We went to lunch together today and he actually brought it up. I think he is starting to see I am serious. We began to plan out the rest of our week, but had to quit when the bell rang. Maybe this is a start. I re-emphasized that from now on we need to plan the week on Sunday night. He agreed.

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Originally Posted by JBKT16
Originally Posted by alis
We went through this. Same age as you, and our kids are same age.

In late 2011, we had a two year old, and I was pregnant. Replace football/independent life with video games.

I told him I would make plans to SEPARATE unless he was willing to make us a priority. And I was dead serious.

That, JBKT, is rock bottom. And it was transforming, as we made marriage #1. We even relocated and changed careers. When your marriage is #1, nothing else matters as much. I make $15/hour BELOW my "market value" - don't care. Hubby passes promotions - don't care. We are happy!

I was serious. Are you? Because he knows you aren't that serious.

Thank you, I honestly don't want it to come to this, but I know it could. I have a couple times, when things got really bad, told him I was going to leave. He threatened to take the kids from me, says his family has more money and would hire better lawyers....

I think he also knows that there is no way financially for either of us to be able to be on our own. He also knows I don't want that for a lot of reasons. I think that is part of why he doesn't take my complaints seriously.

Why would he need a real threat of me leaving before he got serious....wouldn't you want it never to get to that point? I was very close once, to the point where I drove to his parents house and told them everything that had been going on. They came over and talked to him and helped us talk. I was desperate and didn't know what to do other than leave.

Did the thought of you leaving instantly get him on board? Thanks for sharing your story.

I was in such a state of withdrawl that my emotionless, serious, statement couldn't be taken as anything to mess with.

Plus, my husband was a good husband who allowed bad habits to form. It required a head-shaking to realize was happened. BTW, not all spouses will come on board. Some are not interested in extraordinary care.

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Originally Posted by JBKT16
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
My last suggestion is to read the thread again [and your old one] and decide if YOU are serious. Because I don't see a serious person here. I see a person who wants magic but is not willing to take any of the steps that would affect change. All of the answers are on this thread if you decide to take them. Good luck....

I am serious, and I have read the thread back a couple of times now. I see that I was not serious during the first thread, honestly I didn't even know about the program during the first thread. I was just looking for feedback.

We went to lunch together today and he actually brought it up. I think he is starting to see I am serious. We began to plan out the rest of our week, but had to quit when the bell rang. Maybe this is a start. I re-emphasized that from now on we need to plan the week on Sunday night. He agreed.


Being serious is evidenced by action steps and that has not happened. I see no evidence that you are serious. Planning the week on Sunday won't matter if you can't find time for the 15+ hours.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by JBKT16
[Why would he need a real threat of me leaving before he got serious....wouldn't you want it never to get to that point? I was very close once, to the point where I drove to his parents house and told them everything that had been going on. They came over and talked to him and helped us talk. I was desperate and didn't know what to do other than leave.

What happened to the lady in the article we posted? [When to Call it Quits]

What happened to alis?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by JBKT16
[Why would he need a real threat of me leaving before he got serious....wouldn't you want it never to get to that point? I was very close once, to the point where I drove to his parents house and told them everything that had been going on. They came over and talked to him and helped us talk. I was desperate and didn't know what to do other than leave.

What happened to the lady in the article we posted? [When to Call it Quits]

What happened to alis?

I understand that taking those steps (separating) works and that they will get serious or it will be over. I just thought that would be a last resort. How do you know when you are to that point? When it couldn't be solved without making such a dramatic change to the kids lives.

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Step 1:

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The first step, as I mentioned earlier, should be to express your need clearly without demands, disrespect, or anger. Invite your husband to complete the Emotional Needs Questionnaire with you that can be copied from the Questionnaires section of the Marriage Builders� website. After you have each described your most important emotional needs, the book ,"His Needs, Her Needs," will help you learn to meet those needs for each other. The accompanying workbook, "Five Steps to Romantic Love," provides worksheets that will help you both implement a plan to turn need -- fulfilling behavior into habits.

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[I]f your husband refuses to accept your offer, the next step I recommend is very controversial, but when you compare it to the alternatives, it makes the most sense. It has two parts. I call one part plan A, and the other plan B. These two parts are to be executed sequentially -- plan A is first, followed by plan B.

Step 2a:

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[B]efore you begin plan A, prepare for plan B, which is to completely separate from your husband. You can't simply move out of the bedroom. You must move from the house, or have him move. If you live in a state that supports legal separation, go to the trouble to see an attorney so that all financial and legal arrangements are made in advance. Be sure that you can support yourself for an extended period of time, such as a year.

Example Given:

Quote
After Ellen agreed to follow my plan A/plan B approach, it took her almost a year to prepare for plan B. She saw an attorney, saved some money, got a better paying job, and found an apartment that appealed to her.

Step 2b:

Plan A

Example Given:

Quote
About one month before she was ready to implement plan B, she poured on the charm with plan A, all the while encouraging Ken to join her in learning how to meet each others emotional needs. Ken loved all the attention (and sex) he was getting, but remained firm in his conviction that he shouldn't have to learn to meet her emotional needs. He believed in unconditional love.

Step 3:

Plan B

Example Given:

Quote
After a month had passed, when Ken returned home from work, there was a note on the kitchen table from Ellen. She explained that she loved him, and wanted their marriage to be successful. But because the relationship was one -- sided, with she doing all the giving, and he doing all the taking, she decided that it was time to do something about it. If he wanted to talk with her, she could be reached on her cell phone.

Last edited by FightTheFight; 05/19/15 02:07 PM.

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Fightthefight, thanks for laying it out so succinctly. In addition to the extra resources mentioned above, you should consult with Dr. Harley and ask him to help you persuade your husband.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Husband had a sales job that made good money but he was unhappy, which made the family unhappy.

Now he has his dream coaching jub, he apperently loves, although he does not seem happy from what you tell about him, rather exhausted. The job pays less than his sales job, has worse hours and takes him away from the family and from his wife, which makes you unhappy.

The only upside is, that he was in a worse mood in his former job. When he is in a bad mood he makes the entire family unhappy.

There must be an alternative that accomodates having a family life and makes you AND him AND the children AND MAYBE his family happy.
If he has no time to care for sick relatives, he has no time. Nobody can magically make the day have more hours
(trust me, if it could happen, I would have found a way).




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If a job is so time-consuming and exhausting, there must be compensation in the form of pay, so that a person can pay another human being to do the things he cannot do during the time spent working (like hunting for food, mowing the lawn, caring for the sick).

If the pay-off is not there and the work is making the person happy, but not worth it in pay, it is not called a job, it is called a hobby.


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