Exactly.

In the past, Remark's view of his wife and family as opposite ends of a tug of war, him in the middle, allowed him to do the easiest thing for himself. Now, his family has the idea that Remark's wife was against them and didn't encourage family relations, which in fact is FALSE. In the past, Remark neglected to communicate to them JD2D's goodwill toward them, and now, they are left still viewing her as the bad guy. This hurts her, because she DID have good will toward them which has been soured by Remark's actions. Their continued discomfort and unwillingness to visit reflect the fact that they don't see and treat Remark & JD2D as one single unit. And id Remark has secretly disclosed to them about JD2D's plans to separate, that would have been more behavior like the past.

If Remark were to actually see JD2D as a part of himself, then the negative that his family dishes out referencing her, would hurt him. It was HIS job to present a very positive picture of his wife to his family (she is a VERY caring person) and instead, he did the opposite.

The fact that they continue to feel uncomfortable, signals that they are still of some sort of the same opinion, and JD2D is powerless to change what Remark has damaged.

JD2D needs clarification to find out if Remark is still contributing or allowing her to be undermined, or or if it is family's unwillingness to see her in a newer, truer light.

First, she can't feel safe in a marriage if he does not defend her and Second, the point where he has to choose has come, because he can't undo the consequences of his past actions and his family is not willing to change the way that they relate with Remark.

JD2D would need to confirm all of this, but she is so hurt to be put into this situation unfairly and to have it continue. For her to even pop out of her shell to bring it up is a huge act of goodwill. It is something that needs to be solved for her to be open to a future with Remark.

Zillions of words are being expended here about Remark's family. This is what Prisca and I used to do about my family.

It's really not that complicated. Don't have contact with them until they can be respectful to JustDay2Day. If they can't be respectful, then say "oh well," and build a happy life without them. After a couple years, they may change their minds. Or not. Either way, you are happy.

Don't try to fix the rest of your relationships until you've fixed the primary relationship in life: the one with your spouse.

You don't have to expend zillions of words to find out if your wife is enthusiastic about something. If this many words are being expended on it, she is clearly not enthusiastic. Move on to another alternative that doesn't involve your family.

SugarCane's right. This is just what my family tried to do. I'll bet they are a lot like yours, Remark.

We had no contact with my parents for two years, until they apologized. After that for a long time I didn't talk to my parents without Prisca being present to witness everything that was said.

This is my point, really. Why, especially when you two are about to separate, is your family being discussed at all?

Why did we ever discuss them as much as we do, even if you were NOT about to separate?

Why is the issue of your family still an issue at all?

Do not have contact with them - not just until they can be respectful, but until JD2D says that she is enthusiastic about contact.

Until she says that, stop talking TO them, and stop talking ABOUT them, here, and at home.

I realise that JD2D brought them up, by sending that email, but the solution to her complaint was to not have anything more to do with them, until and unless. Do that cheerfully, do that willingly, and do not put pressure on JD2D to relent and "let" you see them.

Hi Remark,

I've been following your thread and have been rooting for you and your marriage.

I wanted to interject with one comment on this family discussion:

Way. Too. Many. Words.

Have you heard the saying that a fish dies by its mouth?

Do you see that in the conversation JD2D kept trying to stick with the point in simple questions and you kept responding with non-answer paragraphs upon paragraphs full of speculations as excuses on many things that you could not possibly even know? Exhausting!

Learning to cut down the verbosity is a process, but one that would serve you well. Most of your love busting throughout that whole conversation were all words that didn't mean anything and didn't need to be said.

There are two other sayings that may be helpful to you, which have also helped me narrow my word stream meaningfully:

"When you have the sale, STOP selling!"

"A wise man remains silent and is thought a fool, but a fool speaks up and removes all doubt."

If you direct your communications with fewer words your wife would likely find them far less exasperating.

I will continue rooting for you. The lengthy insight that JD2D provided as to her thoughts regarding your actions over the course of a day is so very valuable. Do you see how she kept reaching after you? Your effort has been profuse, but you seem to have a mindset that is detached from her.

I pray that you will find the wisdom to lead your marriage back to a strong, integrated and loving foundation.

PS: A separation is not the end of the world. Had my xH separated when I asked him to, we could have dated without the all-day-long lovebusting that he continued to perpetuate until that last straw was not only broken but incinerated. That would have been the ONLY chance to save our marriage. Please give some thought as to how a relationship with JD2D would be if you were separated, but eagerly dating and having 15 hours of fun, lively dates - just like before you were married.

Your relationship would repair FAR faster than slogging along in unintended lovebusters most of the moments you are together, day after day. As of now, she is willing to date you if you are separated; who knows when that will change. There was definitely a point for me that that changed.

DidntQuit,

Yes, that all sounds good. The problem is she'll never visit my family anymore, she said. And, she brought all of this up because she knew that would be an issue for me.

Yes, I listened to the MB show yesterday.

She's always welcome to listen on the phone. In fact, I used to insist on that when family called or I called family. (That's how I grew up.)

Thanks,
Remark

When she says that, just say "Okay."

Remark, when did she say that? During the exchange on this subject that you posted?

It doesn't matter. He should not be drawn into pondering this whole issue. She has says she won't go. That must be the end of the subject.

Anywife,

Yes, I understand the confusion. Sorry for that. I agree.
Yes, I'm afraid I did actually said that.

What happened years ago was I was way too open with them on our conflicts. They sided with me, alienating my wife. I attempted to 'dress them down' ( rebuke ) them for siding with me without, at least, getting her side of the story.
Well, since she has communicated to me they are not welcome down here, and and she feels uncomfortable around them, it doesn't surprise me that they feel somewhat similar. That's all I meant, but, should not have said.

I really regret all of my involvement that caused this mess.
Thanks,
Remark

Sugarcane,
I agree with you. I shouldn't think about it, and should not be drawn into conversation on it. It's difficult when it bothers her though, and I don't want to commit an LB when it comes up.

And, if I were to go visit them without her, that certainly would be independent behavior, right? That's part of my confusion.

Thanks,
Remark

When she says she doesn't want to go see them, or have them over, or whatever, JUST AGREE WITH HER. It's simple.


YES. How is this confusing? Don't go. Don't bring them up. Build a happy life with your wife, without them.

**edit**

Didn't we deal with this several weeks ago? Why are you still confused about this?

Tell me what we told you when you last asked that question.

Now tell me what you are still confused about.

She HAS said that, and it has been reported here, both on this thread and on her own. Her position on this is quite clear.

**edit**

**edit**

Remark, do you see how JD2D keeps reaching out to you? That whole exchange was her persisting to set a very big issue in your relationship to rest, in a very reasonable and compassionate way.

Just like she was reaching out to you that whole day where she later shared her play-by-play thoughts on the matter.

I hope this perspective helps encourage you to keep trying to reach your goal of an integrated, non-detached relationship with JD2D.

That isn't true, sunny. If you read their respective threads, you can see why I say that.

**EDIT**