The EPs and RH discussions have nothing to do with uncovering everything that you need to know from your WH's 6 -year secret online life and affair.

Not only do you need to make sure there weren't other affairs in order to implement appropriate EPs, your H not having revealed this information will keep him FOGGY.

Again this topic was covered on PAGE 1 of the thread, you said you would "look into it" and then you never followed up with us...and instead return talking about the meeting EN's part of the program. Sigh.

This is UNACCEPTABLE.

LW, you need to raise the bar and start really putting this program into motion starting with all of the items that were just addressed above, exposure, poly and EPs. And if this attitude of your WH continues, I would start to prepare for separation.

Please do not do this.

Your WH is completely capable of implementing ALL of MB - Extraordinary Care, Protection and Time.

He's just not doing it because he doesn't care enough to. And he's still foggy.

Don't make excuses for him.

SusieQ,

Your bluntness is appreciated and needed. I know I am still in a fog of sorts myself. To answer one of your questions, yes, after my first posts I did expose the A to family and friends as I was encouraged by the forum to do. I will go back through your posts to answer your other questions as soon as I can.

SusieQ, To answer your questions,

Yes family and friends were informed about the A.

I will take your advice and will not encourage H to join forum. He has seen no posts. He was willing to join forum, but he does not care to and had expressed preferring to get the assist from the coaching or Dr. H.

H's smart phone, work computer and vehicle are all company owned. It is my understanding it would be illegal to use a VAR or spyware. He owns no other phone, computer or vehicle. He doesn't use my car and we have no home computer other than the tablet I use which he cannot use. He is low tech as am I. He doesn't know what snooping resources I have used, but he does believe that for a price I could find someone to spy electroniclly who could find out most anything.

His contact & email info is unchanged. Ow could access it easily if it were changed from anyone in the company. If anyone knew why his info was changed I really worry she would learn the A was exposed and this would prompt her to contact my H to learn what was up. She is newly married to a wealthy man and may not otherwise want to chance screwing that up. By the time her M goes belly up, I'm hoping we will already be out of here. I'm not really sure about this.

You SHOULD BE really worried anyway.

Your H had a 6 yr online affair and you have NO WAY to monitor what he is doing with his work phone and work computer.

You should already be worried.

There is no way to verify what he tells you he is up to and there is no transparency so I am really scratching my head at your comments regarding RH being followed now and no need for a poly.

SusieQ,
Thank you for sticking with me here. I know how frustrating it must be for all of you veterans to give of yourself--time and knowledge to help and have your advice unheeded. I once vounteered with battered W and would get so frustrated. Sad irony. No physical battery here, but put up with the occasional emotional whopping, and now all this..

Anyway, yes I do think a poly is in order, and would like some advice. Since only a few questions can be asked, what would you advise and how might it be worded. I would ask about any other EAs/or any PA's, any continued SSL.

Prior to the fessing up to some things without threat of a poly I was so disgusted by everything I was able to find out just by my own snooping, I didn't really give much of a sh**t I guess. I'd heard enough to know I didn't love him and couldn't ever trust him, but for financial reasons wasn't sure what I wanted to do.

I've seen enough change in LB behavior and meeting EN's, all relative of course, that I'm beginning to think there might be a possibility he could learn if he is really believing in Dr H's methods. He has been the push behind doing MB work now rather than me. So maybe there is hope. I'm just not sure how the MH issues play into all of it. That can add a whole new dimension of complications.

What kind of mental health issues do you mean, lightwalker?

lightwalker, the risk of him having an affair and hiding it on these devices is much greater than the risk of ever getting caught spying. This is how people hide affairs and it is a huge looming risk in your life. I would rethink your position on this and employ some spy techniques. I am in the same position as you and I do have spyware on some of his devices, but I also have daily access to his email via webmail. Almost all companies have this ability. All of his incoming desk calls register as an incoming email so I see absolutely everything.

If you can't manage to monitor everything, then something needs to change because you are not safe as it is.

SugarCane,

H has chronic depression, anxiety and OCD. All are being treated and have been for many years. We think his father may have been bi-polar though never formally diagnosed. My H may be somewhere on that spectrum perhaps. He's been treated by several different psychs over the years and none have ever diagnosed that. It's the impulsive behaviors that he exhibits sometimes that are a problem. He's a hard one to figure out. He's worked for the same Co. for over 30 yrs and his boss recently said he is the most unique person he has ever met. There are some outstanding positives, but it is the unpredictable quality about him which is difficult.

Hi MelodyLane,

Yes, I know what you are saying. If I decide to become emotionally and physically invested in this marriage again I need to protect myself. I have tried the webmail with no luck so I gave up. I am so inept when it comes to this tech stuff, I never know If it is just me doing it wrong. I'm afraid I will really foul it up due to my bumbling with it and be detected right off the bat. But I will reconsider, and will try to figure out the webmail again. If I'm not able to snoop adequately, I mean how often would I have to get a poly ever to really feel safe; that's my problem. Thank you for your response, ML.

lightwalker, I am surprised to read your comments here. I was under the impression that recovery was the goal here? If you are not invested, then that is the opposite of recovery. The steps for recovery are: a) the marriage is affair proofed and b) a romantic relationship is created. There is no plan for either of those goals.

Requirements for Recovery

I think the rest of the posters are under the impression that you wanted to recover your marriage. Is this not the case?

Yes, ML I do want to recover my M. My H is my family(40 yrs of relationship now) I care very much about him, and the alternatives I consider at this point in life are not so great. I've continued to read MB and have improved in eliminating LB's and meeting ENs. But I'm weary and as I've said sometimes I question my H's capacity for change due to the MH issues I have mentioned, esp the impulse control problems. It really is hard to know what is what. Sometimes these things can worsen due to age and medical issues also.

I want to believe change is really possible, and I absolutely believe in MB concepts under normal circumstances. But some things, just like with serial cheaters, maybe the MH problems will prevent recovery. I just don't know. I waiver. Those "slip ups" I mentioned have made me reconsider it all. That's the reason I think we really need to get the help from the coaching or Dr. Harley to help sort it all out at this point. I'm trying to get my second wind and haven't given up.

lightwalker,

What EPs has your WH put in place? Do you tell him you still don't feel safe in your marriage?

Are you involved in his MH regimen? Do you go with him to his appointments?

Mental health issues are no reason to not affair proof your marriage, LW.

Dr Harley has addressed Impulse control issue when speaking about serial cheaters and in other instances on his radio show. I have personally spoken to him about this when we talked about my ex WH.

If your H cannot control himself because of impulse control or MH issues then he probably shouldn't work outside of the home and shouldn't have access to internet/email and cell phone unless he is accountable for everything - aka spyware and you can look at the records.

The answer isn't to sweep it under the rug and allow him to keep doing what he was doing before.

On another show with a caller who had impulse control issues, Dr Harley emphasized the need to her to follow POJA and to eliminate all IB and basically not do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of her BH. There was no different "plan" for her to deviate from MB because of it, and nor should there be for your H.

Your WH can hold down a job and drive a car, venture out into public without fear of being arrest, etc, right?? There is no reason that he cannot implement MB. The problem is that he is wayward and he is being enabled. Not MH or impulse or bipolar issues. That is an excuse.

Who told you that "serial cheater" will "prevent recovery"?? Where are you getting this stuff from?

The solution is to implement MORE EPs, not ignore that part of the program, LW.

If you cannot snoop adequately because of his job, then he should retire early or change his job, LW. That is the answer, not just ignore that part of recovery.

Nobody told you that you should do frequent constant polys in lieu of snooping. I am not sure where you got that idea. It is to make sure that you know everything you need to know about any other affairs so that you can implement appropriate EPs and other reasons that have already been posted to you or that you would have read about in the FR thread.

Have you read this?

False Recovery-Need Voices of Experience

If you truly are interested in recovery, and honestly I don't see that you are, I would strongly suggest you sign up for the MB program #3. That way, you will be assigned a coach who will help you do the program. If your husband will not do the steps then Dr Harley will push him.

But I don't see that you are really serious yourself. I see you doing a little dibbling and dabbling and that is all a waste of your time. The program has to be done in its entirety and you will avail nothing with this piece meal approach.

We have many, many people in the MB program who have personality defects and Dr Harley helps them through. Your H is certainly better off than many I have seen. We have husbands with Aspergers and ADD who are thriving on the program.

But you have to take it seriously before he will.

[quote]But some things, just like with serial cheaters, maybe the MH problems will prevent recovery. I just don't know. I waiver. [/qote]

We have many many serial cheaters who have recovered. And most people in the program have "mental health" issues. The only issue I see here is your willingness to do the program.

I would advise you to do this before you run out of steam. There is no reason your marriage can't recover. You just have to get serious..